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sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 3:06am



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Seattle property values along with property & business tax revenues are on the verge of plummeting!  Can you imagine what that means?!

What?  You don't think a major disruption to the mechanisms keeping your citizenry safe from the dregs of society won't have any significant consequences?

Seattle city leaders throw support behind defunding SPD by 50%
—-

Group to present ways to defund Seattle Police by 50% to city council

SEATTLE — A group known as Decriminalize Seattle is set to go before the city council Wednesday morning presenting a list of ways they want to see 50% of Seattle Police Department's budget removed.

They believe fewer police officers on the streets will make those streets safer.


Be careful what you wish for
.

You may get it. Good and hard.
 

I actually welcome this to quote Brian Eno; "is necessary for the learning."   It will be a tough lesson for some, but there are many who have very tough lives already and I welcome the hardship to be shifted a bit to wealthy white people who really have no idea what life is like on the streets with no protection.  I have heard some BLM activist say the same thing and I agree with them is all.   The experience of going too far the other way will promote more understanding for what else the police does for their communities other than beat the shit out of them, an act of which is usually seen at the end of a an incident and out of context.   Don't get me wrong, Libertarians have been watching, realizing and warning others of the militarization, over aggression and relationship breakdown between law enforcement and their citizens for some time.  However their is another side to this story and that is there are a lot of really bad, angry and desperate people out there who commit heinous acts and the police are the only ones who actively investigate, pursue and defend us against them and that story will be unleashed into the foray and hopefully perpetuate a good faith relationship between social justice advocates and the police and their unions that does not come to the table with a movement whose very name means to exterminate their jobs or to take a lot of their money away and expect them to bow down and accept their fate.   In the meantime, oh there will be pain.........




de·fund/dēˈfənd/
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verbUSverb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding
  1. prevent from continuing to receive funds."the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"


a·bol·ish/əˈbäliSH/
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verbverb: abolish; 3rd person present: abolishes; past tense: abolished; past participle: abolished; gerund or present participle: abolishing
  1. formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution)."the tax was abolished in 1977"

KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 7:14pm

Seattle property values along with property & business tax revenues are on the verge of plummeting!  Can you imagine what that means?!

What?  You don't think a major disruption to the mechanisms keeping your citizenry safe from the dregs of society won't have any significant consequences?

Seattle city leaders throw support behind defunding SPD by 50%
—-

Group to present ways to defund Seattle Police by 50% to city council

SEATTLE — A group known as Decriminalize Seattle is set to go before the city council Wednesday morning presenting a list of ways they want to see 50% of Seattle Police Department's budget removed.

They believe fewer police officers on the streets will make those streets safer.


Be careful what you wish for
.

You may get it. Good and hard.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:46am

 sirdroseph wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
 
Irony cannot be held by any borders.
 
I did let it sit for a couple of days.  But it was still there, so ...
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:30am



 kurtster wrote:

Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
 
Irony cannot be held by any borders.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 2:19am

 kcar wrote:


But people don't have to have the same opinion about an incident just because they share political opinions. This is not the USSR.

Maybe things work differently in Trumpworld. 
 
Do you read what you type / write ?

Just sayin'
BlueHeronDruid

BlueHeronDruid Avatar

Location: planting flowers


Posted: Jul 9, 2020 - 3:59pm



 kcar wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
 
Black driver in a Jag is your killer.

From the sounds of it, he was in a hurry for something.

Best try the Seattle papers for details.


"Kelete was the owner of the Jaguar XJL and was alone in the car, according to the state patrol.

A security camera on the REI building captured Kelete's car driving the wrong way up the Stewart Street I-5 exit ramp, past numerous warning signs that said “Wrong Way,” according to the charging document. Since it was an exit ramp, “a driver must make a deliberate and sharp right U-turn in order to drive southbound on I-5,” the document said.

He was traveling at freeway speeds when he first noticed the demonstrators, the document said."

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 9, 2020 - 1:51pm

Drivers target Black Lives Matter protesters in 'horrifying' spate of attacks
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 2:56pm



 kurtster wrote:

I offered up that same thought when I initially brought this up and the very first reaction to my thought was by our friend the dragon and he said in no uncertain terms that is was deliberate and outright murder and just like Charlottesville.  And there was a second thought supporting that.  It kinda got me leaning that way based on their certainty and information presented. It involves a BLM ish protest group and the police.  So how could this not be something deliberate, an outright act of murder ?

Now I have you agreeing with my original thought.  How can that be ?

I give up.  Go backscroll and look at the beginning.  You're all on the same side of the political aisle.  Y'all have to get your stories straight. 
 

"Y'all have to get your stories straight."

You really need to work on your attitude. 

It's not surprising that people are doing hot takes on this incident before all the details come out. The collision occurred during a BLM-related protest. Someone did intentionally drive their car into protesters in Charlotte VA in 2017. Similar collisions occurred this year during protests IIRC People in this forum and the US are very worked up. 

But people don't have to have the same opinion about an incident just because they share political opinions. This is not the USSR. Maybe things work differently in Trumpworld. 

I have to think, though, that the driver was depraved, mentally ill, or panicking when he kept driving after hitting those two women. There's no way he could have not noticed the collision. It's just not clear to me that he could have known for sure that the people on the freeway were protesters. It's possible that he assumed they were because the freeway had been closed for 19 straight days due to the BLM protests in Seattle. 

Insufficient information to form a firm opinion. We'll find out more soon enough. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 3:44am

 kcar wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
 
I offered up that same thought when I initially brought this up and the very first reaction to my thought was by our friend the dragon and he said in no uncertain terms that is was deliberate and outright murder and just like Charlottesville.  And there was a second thought supporting that.  It kinda got me leaning that way based on their certainty and information presented. It involves a BLM ish protest group and the police.  So how could this not be something deliberate, an outright act of murder ?

Now I have you agreeing with my original thought.  How can that be ?

I give up.  Go backscroll and look at the beginning.  You're all on the same side of the political aisle.  Y'all have to get your stories straight. 
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 1:19am



 kurtster wrote:

We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
 

Did the driver hit the protesters because of some animus he held towards the Black Femme Movement? Or was this a case of a reckless driver who ignored barricades and unintentionally killed a woman through his negligence?  

My hunch is the latter situation, but we don't know enough now to make a firm judgment. In my opinion, this is not a replay of the killing in Charlottesville, VA in 2017
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 12:06am

 kcar wrote:


I have to ask: given what we know so far, how is this incident anything more than spectacle? 
 
We have a dead person by way of a protest under police supervision.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 7, 2020 - 12:01am

 Steely_D wrote:

I live right next to Martinez, FWIW. 

Trump says these folks should be convicted and sentenced to 10 years. LAW AND ORDER!
 
I know the area as well.

Yep, lock em up.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 11:14pm



 rgio wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
 
I bet they were arrested for defacing graffiti ... 

What happened to your av ?  You look burnt out.

You need to get to a doc, STAT ... 
{#Mrgreen}
 
Kurt...sorry if I don't follow.

Assuming that the city approved the painting of the street, are you supporting someone unilaterally deciding to paint over it?  Do you assume / know that someone painted it without approval?

 
I live right next to Martinez, FWIW. 

Trump says these folks should be convicted and sentenced to 10 years. LAW AND ORDER!


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:48pm

 kurtster wrote:
Yellow Paint Matters!
Meanwhile, a King County Sheriff’s Office deputy was placed on administrative leave after making what the Sheriff’s Office described as “concerning posts” on social media over the weekend.

Screenshots shared on social media showed a post under the name Mike Brown; the Sheriff’s Office confirmed Brown is a detective. The screenshots captured a Facebook post with an image that read “All lives splatter” — accompanied by a graphic of a vehicle running people over. “Keep your (expletive) off the road,” the graphic continued.

“We value all members of our community and are committed to serving everyone equally, with dignity and respect,” Sheriff Mitzi Johanknecht wrote in a statement Monday. “I will take swift action to thoroughly investigate when the conduct of Sheriff’s Office members fails to reflect our core values and violates Sheriff’s Office policy.”

The office is also investigating other employees who “may have participated via reactions or comments on the post,” the statement said.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:47pm



 kurtster wrote:

Well, there you have it.  I guess that it is more urgent to you than me.

I did say the couple should be arrested if true didn't I ?

I guess that the Martinez PD aren't looking too hard or they would have found them by now. 

They have a good license plate number to work with.  But Martinez is in the SF Bay Area ...

So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ?  Hate crime ?
 

"So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ? Hate crime ?"


As you put it, "I guess that it is more urgent to you than me."

As I've posted before, I don't bother with this thread very much because it focuses on the incidental and inevitable mayhem caused by impromptu protests and riots.

There are more important aspects of the protests to think about. As a piece in the NYT noted, "Black Lives Matter May Be the Largest Movement in U.S. History."  



The recent Black Lives Matter protests peaked on June 6, when half a million people turned out in nearly 550 places across the United States. That was a single day in more than a month of protests that still continue to today.

Four recent polls — including one released this week by Civis Analytics, a data science firm that works with businesses and Democratic campaigns — suggest that about 15 million to 26 million people in the United States have participated in demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and others in recent weeks.

These figures would make the recent protests the largest movement in the country’s history, according to interviews with scholars and crowd-counting experts.




I think the reasons for the protests are a far bigger and more enduring issue than looting, mayhem, etc. It's a small miracle when even organized protests occur without incident. If you focus on smashed windows, fights, in-riot shootings by and of police, etc. you are ignoring a massive sea-change in Americans' attitudes about race, oppression of Blacks, the insufficient controls on the use of violence by police, etc. 


My take on Seattle CHOP for instance: a goofy idea that failed to maintain peace and order in practice within that area of Seattle. 




No one is going to be talking about Seattle CHOP come November. BLM will be a significant issue in the presidential election and national politics for years to come. 



As for the Seattle freeway incident. Are you talking about this? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p07roNS2Y

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/2-people-hit-by-car-on-i-5-in-downtown-seattle-during-protest/

https://www.tampabay.com/news/2020/07/04/police-2-women-hit-by-car-on-seattle-highway-amid-protest/


I doubt it's a hate crime. After skimming the Seattle Times piece, it seems to me that the driver was trying to evade blockades so he could drive on the freeway. I don't think he knew that there were protesters dancing on the freeway. He apparently swerved to avoid a crowd of people and in doing so hit two protesters. 

Dawit Kelete, the driver, is black. The protesters he struck were white. The group of protesters was called the Black Femme Movement. It seems from the article that the group's decision to dance on the freeway was not planned out in advance. It's not clear from The Seattle Times piece that Kelete knew which group was on the freeway or that there was a group on the freeway until they came into his sight. 

So I don't see this as a hate crime. I could be quite wrong but there it is. 

From the Tampa Bay Times piece: 


Officials were trying to determine the motive as well as where he got onto the interstate, which had been closed by the state patrol for more than an hour before the protesters were hit. Mead said they suspect Kelete drove the wrong way on a ramp. Trooper Rick Johnson said the driver went through a barrier that closed the freeway.

Troopers did not know whether it was a targeted attack, but impairment was not considered a factor, Mead said.



From the Seattle Times piece: from what I can tell, the I-5 is the "insterstate" and the "freeway" in both news articles:


State Patrol had shut down the interstate 19 nights in a row in response to protests, said Capt. Mead, who oversees the agency’s district that includes King County. For weeks, troopers operated in response to protesters’ movements, shutting down a stretch of the interstate when it looked as if protesters would enter the roadway.





I have to ask: given what we know so far, how is this incident anything more than spectacle? 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 10:06pm

 kcar wrote:
How 'bout that Google thingy! Yes, the Black Lives Matter mural was painted with the permission and cooperation of the city government of Martinez, CA. 
 
Well, there you have it.  I guess that it is more urgent to you than me.

I did say the couple should be arrested if true didn't I ?

I guess that the Martinez PD aren't looking too hard or they would have found them by now. 

They have a good license plate number to work with.  But Martinez is in the SF Bay Area ...

So what is your take on the freeway thing in Seattle ?  Hate crime ?
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 9:33pm



 kurtster wrote:
 

How 'bout that Google thingy! Yes, the Black Lives Matter mural was painted with the permission and cooperation of the city government of Martinez, CA. 


Police Seek 2 White People Who Were Seen Vandalizing Black Lives Matter Mural


The police in Martinez, Calif., said on Sunday that they were seeking two white people who were seen vandalizing a Black Lives Matter mural less than an hour after it was painted in front of a local courthouse on Saturday.

“The community spent a considerable amount of time putting the mural together only to have it painted over in a hateful and senseless manner,” Chief Manjit Sappal of the Martinez Police Department said in a statement. “The city of Martinez values tolerance, and the damage to the mural was divisive and hurtful.”

Videos posted on social media show a white woman using a roller with black paint to cover the letters B and L in “Black Lives Matter,” while a white man records onlookers yelling for them to stop.

The mural, in yellow paint in the middle of a city street, spelled out “Black Lives Matter” in capital letters.

...

The man, who can be seen in a video wearing a red cap and a red shirt that reads “Trump” and “Four More Years,” can be heard saying: “We’re sick of this narrative” and “The narrative of police brutality, the narrative of oppression, the narrative of racism. It’s a lie. It’s a lie.”

...

The mural was painted on a one-block stretch of Court Street in Martinez, which is about 35 miles northeast of San Francisco. The city selected the location after Mr. Gomez, the lead organizer for Martizians for Black Lives, asked the city for permission to paint the message, he said.

“We asked to do it on our city’s main street,” Mr. Gomez said. The city, he said, offered the street in front of the Wakefield Taylor Courthouse instead.


“We immediately agreed to it,” he said, “and I feel it was a more powerful statement than what we had initially proposed.”

Mr. Gomez and local residents started painting the mural at 7 a.m. on Saturday; by 2:30 p.m., with the paint still drying, he left.

By 3 p.m., Mr. Gomez said, he received messages saying the mural was being vandalized.

Mr. Gomez said that the mural had since been restored and that supporters were “maintaining a presence” to prevent further damage.


From CNN: 


By the time police arrived at the scene, the man and the woman were gone, police said. Police are looking for a Nissan pickup truck with the word "NICOLE" painted in silver, which was provided by a witness. The man approached the vehicle while the video was being filmed.The case is being investigated and police are asking the public's help in identifying the man and the woman seen in the video."The community spent a considerable amount of time putting the mural together only to have it painted over in a hateful and senseless manner," Chief Sappal said. "The City of Martinez values tolerance and the damage to the mural was divisive and hurtful."
    The mural was repainted after the incident, according to CNN affiliate KPIX. The area was blocked off and the mural was surrounded by chalk images, as of Sunday afternoon, KPIX reported.In an unrelated incident Sunday, a man was arrested for shouting "all lives matter" and pulling a gun on a young man looking at the same Black Lives Matter mural, according to CNN affiliate KGO.


    kurtster

    kurtster Avatar

    Location: drifting
    Gender: Male


    Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 7:48pm

     rgio wrote:

     
    Kurt...sorry if I don't follow.

    Assuming that the city approved the painting of the street, are you supporting someone unilaterally deciding to paint over it?  Do you assume / know that someone painted it without approval?

     
    It was sarcasm directed at my friend and his motives.  I don't know where the video was taken so I don't know anything about any of it.  If it was put there with city approval, then the couple can be arrested.  And they should be arrested if that is the case.  If not, then who knows.  You seem to be willing to assume that the city approved the street painting. Why ?  What insight do you have ?  Me, just by looking at how the B is painted over the STOP on the street at the limit line has me inclined to think that it was done without anyone's approval.  If it was approved and supervised the traffic marking would not have been painted over.

    It is hard to tell what is approved and what is not.  Such as who knew that the City of Seattle would actually approve the repeated closure of an Interstate, and not just any Interstate, it was I-5, the main road from border to border on the west coast.  Same as I-95 is in the east.  And now we have dead people as a direct result of the actions by the City of Seattle.  On the Interstate and in the CHAZ or CHOP depending on your preferences.

    Nothing is making any sense anywhere, anymore.  We have real anarchy.

    For extra credit :  Is all this yellow paint being put down on the city streets for these BLM markings approved safety paint for use on the street ?  I hope so because if not, when it gets wet or snow covered, cars are going to lose traction when braking and people are going to get run over by out of control vehicles unable to stop because of the slippery paint.  But of course, virtue signaling comes ahead of public safety, right ?

    For extra, extra credit :  Did you know that yellow is one of the more expensive colors of paint to make because of the pigments needed ?  That is one reason you have seen the trend where government work vehicles and things like Ryder trucks are now painted white instead of yellow.
    R_P

    R_P Avatar



    Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 6:45pm

    They all look sound alike...
    “The man, who was wearing a red shirt that read “Trump Four More Years,” said they were tired of “the narrative of oppression.”

    “There is no oppression, there is no racism,” the man said, while holding his phone up. “It’s a leftist lie. It’s a lie from the media, the liberal left.”

    rgio

    rgio Avatar

    Location: West Jersey
    Gender: Male


    Posted: Jul 6, 2020 - 6:22pm



     kurtster wrote:
     
    I bet they were arrested for defacing graffiti ... 

    What happened to your av ?  You look burnt out.

    You need to get to a doc, STAT ... 
    {#Mrgreen}
     
    Kurt...sorry if I don't follow.

    Assuming that the city approved the painting of the street, are you supporting someone unilaterally deciding to paint over it?  Do you assume / know that someone painted it without approval?

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