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Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:55pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:

 

Insightful, complex but ultimately, thought-provoking and will certainly convince people to change their opinions. Kudos. We look forward to more of your well-considered and well-reasoned contribution to our community. 
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:19pm


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 5:26pm



 sirdroseph wrote:


 haresfur wrote:
I wonder if anyone would have paid attention without the incendiary rhetoric? It certainly got the idea noticed.
 

Oh I don't know I think some other stuff might have gotten some attention too:



Insured Losses from Riots Reach ‘Catastrophe’ Levels, May Rival Record



 

You would think that people would see incendiary rhetoric as more positive than actual incendiaries.

The fundamental problem is that polite discourse is usually ignored.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 5:23pm



 JrzyTmata wrote:


 steeler wrote:


 

Camden, New Jersey.
 

it still has issues but for the most part, it works.  Across the river, Philly was burned and looted during the protests, Camden was quiet.
 


JrzyTmata

JrzyTmata Avatar



Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:45am



 steeler wrote:


 

Camden, New Jersey.
 

it still has issues but for the most part, it works.  Across the river, Philly was burned and looted during the protests, Camden was quiet.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:09am



 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
Depends on who you talk to within the movement.   The most diplomatic side of the movement wants as you say, but the spectrum goes all the way to abolish the police completely and all ranges in between those two.   And again:


de·fund/dēˈfənd/
Learn to pronounce
verbUSverb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding
  1. prevent from continuing to receive funds."the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"



Takes me about 2 seconds to say reform or reduce the budget and then you have a grown up conversation.  Maybe I should be a movement leader or pr person.

Stick a microphone in random faces at a protest and you'll eventually get someone to say something incendiary you can use on that night's broadcast to cast the movement in whatever light you want.

Even the folks calling for disbanding police forces (which has actually happened in a number of places, generally to positive effect) aren't talking about sending the 911 operators home and leaving the streets to gangs of roaming looters. They generally mean starting over with the police department, getting rid of an entrenched culture of brutality and domination. This often means firing the entire force and rehiring new officers and leadership, hopefully with a structure more responsive to the community. When a tree is rotten you don't prune the branches, you cut it down and replant.
 

Camden, New Jersey.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:05am

sirdroseph wrote:
Depends on who you talk to within the movement.   The most diplomatic side of the movement wants as you say, but the spectrum goes all the way to abolish the police completely and all ranges in between those two.   And again:


de·fund/dēˈfənd/
Learn to pronounce
verbUSverb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding
  1. prevent from continuing to receive funds."the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"



Takes me about 2 seconds to say reform or reduce the budget and then you have a grown up conversation.  Maybe I should be a movement leader or pr person.

Stick a microphone in random faces at a protest and you'll eventually get someone to say something incendiary you can use on that night's broadcast to cast the movement in whatever light you want.

Even the folks calling for disbanding police forces (which has actually happened in a number of places, generally to positive effect) aren't talking about sending the 911 operators home and leaving the streets to gangs of roaming looters. They generally mean starting over with the police department, getting rid of an entrenched culture of brutality and domination. This often means firing the entire force and rehiring new officers and leadership, hopefully with a structure more responsive to the community. When a tree is rotten you don't prune the branches, you cut it down and replant.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 4:25am



 sirdroseph wrote:

 

Oh I don't know I think some other stuff might have gotten some attention too:



Insured Losses from Riots Reach ‘Catastrophe’ Levels, May Rival Record



 
While the amount is significant ($1.4B), be careful about assumptions regarding the insurance world.  I have spent the last 15 years at a few of the largest insurance companies going.

"Catastrophe" (or Cat) for insurance organizations is important for reporting purposes.  Cat losses are "isolated" and discussed as something "outside the normal course of business".    It's a useful tool when explaining performance within the industry.  If it weren't a Cat event, insurance companies would have to explain higher loss ratios without the sort of "get out of jail free" card a CAT provides.

Losses are not always a bad thing.  Rates will "harden" or increase now for everyone, and without similar events over the next few years, the BLM riots will be a revenue event for the industry...not a loss.

For comparison purposes... the California wildfires in "Paradise" and other CA towns in 2017 cost insurance companies $12B, and forced bankruptcy proceedings for PG&E. 

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 1:50am



 haresfur wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

The messaging for this campaign is so sloppy it almost looks like they wanted to fail.

"Defund" in this context does not mean "zero the budget", it means "shift some of the police budget to social services". That's an awful lot to try and explain when someone as already decided you're a revolutionary kook. Speaking English would have been so much easier.

Biden has probably decided it's either not worth the time to explain or that it would cost him more in support with public employee unions than it would get among urban voters.

Or he just can't comprehend the concept of reducing a budget, ever.
 

I wonder if anyone would have paid attention without the incendiary rhetoric? It certainly got the idea noticed.
 

Oh I don't know I think some other stuff might have gotten some attention too:



Insured Losses from Riots Reach ‘Catastrophe’ Levels, May Rival Record



sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 1:43am



 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

The messaging for this campaign is so sloppy it almost looks like they wanted to fail.

"Defund" in this context does not mean "zero the budget", it means "shift some of the police budget to social services"
. That's an awful lot to try and explain when someone as already decided you're a revolutionary kook. Speaking English would have been so much easier.

Biden has probably decided it's either not worth the time to explain or that it would cost him more in support with public employee unions than it would get among urban voters.

Or he just can't comprehend the concept of reducing a budget, ever.
 

Depends on who you talk to within the movement.   The most diplomatic side of the movement wants as you say, but the spectrum goes all the way to abolish the police completely and all ranges in between those two.   And again:


de·fund/dēˈfənd/
Learn to pronounce
verbUSverb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding
  1. prevent from continuing to receive funds."the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"



Takes me about 2 seconds to say reform or reduce the budget and then you have a grown up conversation.  Maybe I should be a movement leader or pr person.
 
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 12:27am



 Lazy8 wrote:
sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

The messaging for this campaign is so sloppy it almost looks like they wanted to fail.

"Defund" in this context does not mean "zero the budget", it means "shift some of the police budget to social services". That's an awful lot to try and explain when someone as already decided you're a revolutionary kook. Speaking English would have been so much easier.

Biden has probably decided it's either not worth the time to explain or that it would cost him more in support with public employee unions than it would get among urban voters.

Or he just can't comprehend the concept of reducing a budget, ever.
 

I wonder if anyone would have paid attention without the incendiary rhetoric? It certainly got the idea noticed.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 7:47pm

sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

The messaging for this campaign is so sloppy it almost looks like they wanted to fail.

"Defund" in this context does not mean "zero the budget", it means "shift some of the police budget to social services". That's an awful lot to try and explain when someone as already decided you're a revolutionary kook. Speaking English would have been so much easier.

Biden has probably decided it's either not worth the time to explain or that it would cost him more in support with public employee unions than it would get among urban voters.

Or he just can't comprehend the concept of reducing a budget, ever.
buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 1:34pm



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

 

 

 
Well there's some common sense.

 
Probably should stop suggesting defunding police and advocate for funding communities.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 1:11pm



 sirdroseph wrote:
This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

 

 

 
Well there's some common sense.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 11, 2020 - 12:23pm

This actually makes me feel better. The Democrats are right on this issue: 

 

 Biden, Democrats seek to shut down calls to defund police

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501730-biden-democrats-seek-to-shut-down-calls-to-defund-police

 

 

"No, I don't support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness," he said.

Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill were adopting a similar position. 

“I can’t imagine that happening in a federal way,” Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus, said when asked about efforts to defund the police.

 

 

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2020 - 8:10am

George Will wrote a good column about a solid VP candidate, Karen Bass. 
His recommendation is backed with specifics about her qualifications too.
Interesting read.
c.
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Jun 29, 2020 - 9:18am



 buddy wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:


 buddy wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:


 buddy wrote:
Not for nothing, but the subject of this thread is Joe Biden. You have to scroll down pretty far to find a comment remotely related to him.  Perhaps you can take your little party here to a new thread for Democratic Socialism?  As it stands, Joe Biden isn't even remotely close to being a Democratic Socialist.  For those of you playing at home, that would have been Bernie Sanders.

Unless the goal is to hijack every single thread even slightly related to politics with personal axes to grind.  If so - fabulous job.

I'm not the hall monitor, just interested in the actual topic, which started here 12 years ago. I'm not going to play the game of posting something relevant  here just to have it pulled off topic, again and again and again.....
 

LOL

Well maybe if Joe would get out the basement more and give us some news to chatter about.

Here's how it went four(?) days ago:

Joe Biden says there are ‘120 million dead from COVID’ in latest gaffe

 
And maybe if you had the balls to attempt an actual civil dialog on topic rather than post clips from your favorite far right wind sources, you wouldn't be the joke you are out here.

 
You first!

 

If & when you can manage to demonstrate that interacting with you is anything other than a waste of time, I might give it a shot. At this point, your show is blatantly obvious (not mention tediously boring) & I'm not remotely interested in being an actor in your little passion play.
 


If & when you can manage to demonstrate that interacting with you is anything other than a waste of time, I might give it a shot. At this point, your show is blatantly obvious (not mention tediously boring) & I'm not remotely interested in wasting my time with your unwavering adherence to liberal doctrine and contempt for any non-liberal opinion, particularly conservative.

#NEWRULES


buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 29, 2020 - 9:02am



 KarmaKarma wrote:


 buddy wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:


 buddy wrote:
Not for nothing, but the subject of this thread is Joe Biden. You have to scroll down pretty far to find a comment remotely related to him.  Perhaps you can take your little party here to a new thread for Democratic Socialism?  As it stands, Joe Biden isn't even remotely close to being a Democratic Socialist.  For those of you playing at home, that would have been Bernie Sanders.

Unless the goal is to hijack every single thread even slightly related to politics with personal axes to grind.  If so - fabulous job.

I'm not the hall monitor, just interested in the actual topic, which started here 12 years ago. I'm not going to play the game of posting something relevant  here just to have it pulled off topic, again and again and again.....
 

LOL

Well maybe if Joe would get out the basement more and give us some news to chatter about.

Here's how it went four(?) days ago:

Joe Biden says there are ‘120 million dead from COVID’ in latest gaffe

 
And maybe if you had the balls to attempt an actual civil dialog on topic rather than post clips from your favorite far right wind sources, you wouldn't be the joke you are out here.

 
You first!

 

If & when you can manage to demonstrate that interacting with you is anything other than a waste of time, I might give it a shot. At this point, your show is blatantly obvious (not mention tediously boring) & I'm not remotely interested in being an actor in your little passion play.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 29, 2020 - 8:36am



 cc_rider wrote:


 buddy wrote:
Not for nothing, but the subject of this thread is Joe Biden. You have to scroll down pretty far to find a comment remotely related to him.  Perhaps you can take your little party here to a new thread for Democratic Socialism?  As it stands, Joe Biden isn't even remotely close to being a Democratic Socialist.  For those of you playing at home, that would have been Bernie Sanders.

Unless the goal is to hijack every single thread even slightly related to politics with personal axes to grind.  If so - fabulous job.

I'm not the hall monitor, just interested in the actual topic, which started here 12 years ago. I'm not going to play the game of posting something relevant  here just to have it pulled off topic, again and again and again.....
 
Thanks,
Speaking of Mr. Biden, apparently his former boss plans to come out of hiding and support his campaign. Finally. I get it, Obama doesn't want to overshadow the guy, but still.

Not to mention, Obama has been far nicer to his successor than his successor ever was to him. Obama occupies a special place in Trump's head. Rent free.
c.

 

Obama has been and is presidential. I think he has shown remarkable restraint the past 3 1/2 years. 

if I were the Biden campaign, I would be having he and Michelle campaign regularly in Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia in the fall election run-up. Hilary did not do as well as her campaign thought it would in turning out voters in those cities. And she did not lose those swing states by all that much.
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Jun 29, 2020 - 8:33am



 buddy wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:


 buddy wrote:
Not for nothing, but the subject of this thread is Joe Biden. You have to scroll down pretty far to find a comment remotely related to him.  Perhaps you can take your little party here to a new thread for Democratic Socialism?  As it stands, Joe Biden isn't even remotely close to being a Democratic Socialist.  For those of you playing at home, that would have been Bernie Sanders.

Unless the goal is to hijack every single thread even slightly related to politics with personal axes to grind.  If so - fabulous job.

I'm not the hall monitor, just interested in the actual topic, which started here 12 years ago. I'm not going to play the game of posting something relevant  here just to have it pulled off topic, again and again and again.....
 

LOL

Well maybe if Joe would get out the basement more and give us some news to chatter about.

Here's how it went four(?) days ago:

Joe Biden says there are ‘120 million dead from COVID’ in latest gaffe

 
And maybe if you had the balls to attempt an actual civil dialog on topic rather than post clips from your favorite far right wind sources, you wouldn't be the joke you are out here.

 
You first!

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