maryte wrote: Please don't confuse the child with facts, ok?

I see Argo has taken down, in his avatar sub-header, his proud proclamation of being a Fascist neo-con. Hmmm....

 Argonaut wrote:

 Argonaut wrote: 
OK, Borat I think we know where you stand now.

 Argonaut wrote: 

Aryan?  So then your family is Persian (aka Iranian).  And if you're not Persian, then you're misusing the word.

Not to mention, segregation and animosity towards Jews goes back hundreds of years before Hitler. The word 'ghetto' is old Italian for 'foundry', which is where the Jews were segregated in ancient Venice. The 'foundry' was the hot, dirty, noisy, smelly corner of the city, so that's where they stuck the Jews.

Beyond that, in many places Jews were forbidden to own land. Which, combined with the Catholic Church's proscription against charging interest on loans, made the Jews an obvious choice to become bankers: they had cash since they couldn't buy land, and they were not forbidden to charge interest. Much of this happened something like 500 years before the Nazis. The Church created the very problems they blamed on the Jews.

The issue of (im)migration is a non-starter: should the Boers have been forced to leave South Africa? The Spanish and Portuguese forcibly removed from the Americas? Throughout time immemorial people have moved from place to place. The Nazis simply needed an 'enemy' to reinforce their nationalist fervor: Jews were an easy target. Heck, it wasn't just Jews either, remember: it was anyone who was 'other'. The Nazis also treated Russians with particular contempt: the atrocities are well-documented, and are one reason some Russians still hold a grudge against the U.S.

One likes to imagine our misguided friend is merely ignorant, but I suspect the ignorance is willful, and aggressively so. Which means no amount of persuasion, reason, or facts will sway his opinion. Which means he's not worth wasting a moment's effort on. My efforts? Well, maybe I'm just showing off, maybe I'm trying to enlighten anyone willing to listen. Who knows: the more people know about the history of such atrocities, the more we can try to prevent them from happening again.

Peace,

c.

The Jewish community in Jedwabne was established in the 18th century.^<10> According to the 1921 census, the town had a Jewish community consisting of 757 people, or 61.9 percent of its total population ^<11> It was a typical shtetl, a small town with a very significant Jewish community, one of many such towns in prewar Poland.

The start of World War II in Europe began with the invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany. Likewise, on September 17, 1939, the Soviet Red Army invaded the eastern regions of Poland while in secret agreement with Germany.^<12><13> The area of Jedwabne was originally occupied by the Germans who crushed Polish resistance being offered by local Polish cadets. Jedwabne was then transferred to the Soviets in accordance with the September 28, 1939, German–Soviet Boundary Treaty.^<14> As soon as the Soviets entered Jedwabne, local Polish government was dismantled. At first, many Polish Jews were relieved to learn that the Soviets, rather than the Nazis, were to occupy their town, and unlike Gentiles publicly welcomed the Red Army as their protector.^<5><15> Some people from other ethnic groups in Kresy, particularly Belarusians, also openly welcomed the Soviets.^<15> Administrative jobs were offered to Jews who declared Soviet allegiance. Some Jews joined a Soviet militia overseeing deportations organized by the NKVD. At least one witness testimony says that during round-ups of alleged anti-Soviet people, armed Jewish militiamen were seen to be guarding those prepared for deportation to far-eastern Urals, for security reasons, due the proximity of the Germans.^<5><14> Red Army troops requisitioned food and other goods, undercutting nearly everyone's material needs.^<5> The Soviet secret police accompanying the Red Army routinely arrested and deported Polish citizens - both Gentile and Jewish - spreading terror throughout the region.^<3><16> Waves of arrests, expulsions and prison executions continued until June 20–21, 1941.^<5>

Following Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, German forces quickly overran the territory of Poland which had been occupied by the Soviets since 1939. A number of people who had collaborated with the Soviets before the German invasion were killed by Poles from the Jedwabne area during the first days of the German occupation. The small town of Wizna near Jedwabne saw several dozen Jewish men shot by the invading Germans under Hauptsturmfuehrer Schaper, as did other neighboring towns.^<17> The Nazis distributed propaganda in the area,^<18> revealing crimes committed by the Soviets in Eastern Poland and saying that Jews might have supported them. In parallel, the SS organized special Einsatzgruppen ("task forces") to murder Jews in these areas and a few massacres were carried out. The guidelines for such massacres were formulated by Reinhard Heydrich,^<19> who ordered his officers to induce anti-Jewish incidents on territories newly occupied by the German forces. Local communities were encouraged to commit anti-Jewish pogroms and robberies with total impunity.^<20><21>

<edit> Pogrom

On the morning of July 10, 1941, by the order of mayor Marian Karolak and the town's German gendarmerie,^<22> a group of Polish men from around Jedwabne and neighboring settlements was assembled,^<23> which then rounded up the local Jews as well as those seeking refuge from nearby towns and villages such as Wizna and Kolno. The defenseless Jews were taken to the square in the centre of Jedwabne, where they were ordered to pluck grass, attacked and beaten. A group of Jewish men were forced to demolish a statue of Lenin that had been put up earlier by the Soviets and then carry it out of town while singing Soviet songs. The local rabbi was forced to lead this procession of about 40 people. The group was taken to a pre-emptied barn,^<14> killed and buried along with fragments of the monument, while most of the remaining Jews, estimated at around 250^<14> to 400, including many women and children, were led to the same barn later that day, locked inside and burned alive using kerosene from the former Soviet supplies (or German gasoline, by different accounts) in the presence of eight German gendarmes, who shot those who tried to escape.^<14> The remains of both groups were buried in two mass graves in the barn.^<14><24> Exhumations led to the discovery not only of the charred bodies of the victims in two mass graves, but also of the bust of Lenin (previously assumed to be buried at a Jewish cemetery) as well as bullets that according to a 2000 statement by Leon Kieres, the chief of the IPN, could have been fired from 1941 Walther P38 type pistols.^<14> Some sources claim that a movie made by Germans during the massacre was shown in cinemas in Warsaw to document the alleged spontaneous hatred of local people towards the Jews. No trace of such movie has been found.^<25>

 Argonaut wrote: 

 Argonaut wrote: 
You're full of shit. Conversation over.

Oh, but first you can read about my grandmother's family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom

 Argonaut wrote: 
Well, you are commenting about something of which you really have no experience.

I am of Eastern European descent, Jewish; your people murdered my people.

 Argonaut wrote: 
Do you live here in the States? From the way you write, I get the impression that you do not.

 Argonaut wrote: 
The US is nowhere near a Socialist state, believe me. This is all just lying bullshit. Wake up.

 hippiechick wrote: 

Oh yea, when I was stuck on the road with nothing but commerical radio airwaves to listen to I accidentally caught about 1 minute or 2 of that jerk Michael Savage ripping her for having the nerve to go against the party hate line.

Conservatives Turn Against Liz Cheney - As Bad As McCarthy

 Argonaut wrote:I love RP. It is such a bastion of multiculturalism that it can even afford a place for the voice of Fascist NeoCons such as:
Argonaut
Fascist NeoCon worlwide...

 Argonaut wrote: 
Well, if "globalization" means that corporations and nations can market their wares all over the world, and entities like GE, Bechtel or Pfizer can consequently make huge profits, then that would seem to further Capitalism. If it means that competitior entities (such as China) can impede or exceedingly regulate business practices of the Capitalist entities, then I can see how that would be detrimental to Capitalism. The former definition makes more sense to me, but the latter is often valid as well.
 Multiculturalism seems more of a societal topic than an economic one to me, but that can be debated, of course. 
 As kurtster and perhaps you too noted in earlier posts: Capitalism is designed to renew and propogate itself.

 Argonaut wrote: 
I made no mention of "globalization" or "multiculturalism" in my post.  Those two words are pretty empty buzzwords that get tossed around by pundits of all ilks.  I suppose that they had meaningful definitions at one time.