You'd lose that bet. Also, your limited knowledge regarding RP history negates this post.
Hey wait a minute, you are being a.......naw, I am just kidding. You are willing to have that opinion, I just don't share it so I deem your post negated! Naw, again I am just kidding, unlike you I do not have the power to choose whose posts are relevant and whose are not.
You'd lose that bet. Also, your limited knowledge regarding RP history negates this post.
Another thing is, no matter how supportive, friendly, laid back, or whatever I am 99.95% of the time, it's that 0.005% people seem to remember and dwell on. I think that speaks more about them than it does about me - maybe that's "normal" for people to do, I don't know.
Actually, he has often stated that he is neither conservative nor liberal, and has objected, in the past, when his viewpoints are characterized as being only conservative. So, I believe he would object to the characterization of him being a "vocal conservative at RP." In fact, he made that point just a few pages down in this thread, in a response to Jadewahoo:
I'm both liberal and conservative, depending upon topic.
To clarify, I hold viewpoints that would be described as liberal on some topics. Quite liberal. On other topics, my views would be seen as conservative. Can't say that I have any views that any would consider far-right, or far-left, though not everyone operates their political compass from the same centre. On the whole, my weighting probably leans somewhat conservative. In America, I'd most likely be identified as an Independent voter.
In Canada, I've voted repeatedly for both Liberal and Conservative candidates. Issues matter - I am anything but a party-line voter. Certainly no one here knows the full range of my beliefs, as the list of serious topics discussed here that I have participated in on the forum are very few. Many people here have made the error of believing I am 100% conservative or even far right, while failing to grasp the range of topics that never or rarely appear on the forum, where my participation therein would indicate leanings in the opposite direction. People see what they wish to see in their opponents/enemies. It's easier than facing the truth, I suppose.
I am willing to bet that only the people involved directly in this particular dispute are upset over this and that the overwhelming majority of RP peeps are just perusing through this thread and getting some good entertainment! As far as the supposed lack of civility of this forum, compared to many other forums of public opinion this one is quite tame and friendly and I think the effect of this incident on the entire forum is being WAY overblown and overstated. Is Beaker a racist? I have seen no evidence of this. Was Brandog being over dramatic and hyperbolic in this claim? Probably. Will this have a lasting negative effect on Rpeeps ability to enjoy our community? I seriously doubt it!
au contraire - people who really had nothing to do with this dispute get all sucked in and spun up and end up tearing their hair over stuff that doesn't impact them at all. They keep reading it, though.
Some folks just need to experience whatever it is their getting vicariously - or they wouldn't read this crap to begin with.
I, who am beaker's current reason to slobber and whine, couldn't really care less - I just poke him from time to time because (IMO )he's an evil bastard and maybe if he gets angry enough, he'll blow a valve and get some help.
I haven't really been upset at anyone here since the days of She Who Must Not Be Named (even though I've named her a couple of times without thinking .)
so, that's pretty much it - c ya - I'm going to watch Ween
This isn't about me. Making it about me is what Brandon and like-minded folk want - that's much more convenient than being forced to admit they've transgressed the bounds of common decency here.
This discussion SHOULD be about the libelous accusations Brandon posted aimed squarely at me - and by extension, about anyone posting malicious accusations and personal attacks against another RPeep. I find it disappointing that so many of you keep forgetting this, time after time. That this kind of crap continues to be tolerated on the forum is disappointing — and a major reason why many lurkers and those who avoid the political threads will not reveal themselves and comment on a serious topic.
All this has happened before. All this will happen again.
While words have been said on rationalizing why no one jumped in to support me against the charges laid by Brandon, the obvious words left unsaid - that no one had the balls to say - was this was also the case for Brandon - no one here felt the responsibility to either back up his charges, or chastise him for making such outrageous claims. And yet with just ONE accuser before us, another RPeep who has been here for a while actually had to ask if its true. Wow. If I ever needed evidence to reinforce my long-held belief that a lack of visible public moderation here has its consequences, there it is.
Some time ago it was suggested to me that frothing on in the forum about public figures was fine and dandy - including libelous claims against honourable persons who serve your country, but any personal attacks on fellow RPeeps was verboten. Of course the enforcement to correct any personal attacks that did take place was never there, so nature taking its course, and with no evidence of consequences, the frothing and attacks against public figures was easily redirected at any RPeep - not just me - who offered even the slightest of opposition to the bleating.
The total failure to excoriate or even publicly reprimand in some fashion those who go too far has a predictable result of driving many voices away from this forum. Why would anyone wish to risk the wrath of a Brandon or HC or Servo or even maybe a Beaker for merely stating an opposing opinion? Must all opinions be carefully worded and threaded ever so delicately to avoid disrupting the sensibilities of the reader? If you have anything resembling conservative viewpoints, that certainly seems what is demanded here - and my experience here is not the only one.
As a place for serious political discussion, this forum is a near total failure. With my voice removed for some months, it was noted by more than one person that the level of rancor remained unchanged. Blame me all you want. Blame any other loud voices, be they conservative, liberal, independent or nutbar all you want. Point the fingers where ever you choose - but know this - many of us have long recognized the reason for the failure of reasonable discourse in this forum - and the root of this failure isn't with any one individual participant.
As far as my responses to certain people here goes, while some may dislike my style and claim alienation, in the face of no moderation or demerits for those who cross the line in their rhetoric, I'd like you to consider the presentation alternatives available to an opposing voice in responding to the screaming and frothing ALREADY ON DISPLAY. And don't start with me in an admonishment to provide reasoned discourse in 'leading by example' - as this isn't anything demanded of anyone else here.
Unintended Consequences
The consequences of failing to set and maintain a reasonable standard for discourse here are numerous, and many are not obvious to anyone not familiar with the dynamics at play on a public forum. Here's just a couple I have personally observed:
Knowledgeable voices on serious subjects remain muted and unwilling to participate AT ALL, having seen long-term the non-serious responses to serious topics, and/or the angry arrows aimed at the outspoken.
While almost all of us here are quite reasonable folks, all it takes is just a few - even one or two - to run amok, do silly things and pay no consequences, thus setting an (undesirable) example for others on just what can be gotten away with here. And thus the newbie lurker can turn into another example of a forum participant showing behaviour that is undesirable. I've seen this several times now.
Newbie members assume the worst about certain members based solely upon the obvious and blatant disdain that a handful of others post. With no corrective action taken against the offenders, the newbie assumes that allegations are true. 'Your reputation precedes you'... Sad that the reputation of others may be controlled in any way by the vocal frothing of a handful here, but there it is.
RP members leave the forum and RP permanently as a result of the intolerance on display. Military spouses have left not to return. How many now?
People leave here for Facebook, RL or safer environs elsewhere due to the venom and vicious attacks. The RP forum isn't the only place to connect with music lovers, or other like-minded folk on any topic. Facebook, as one example, offers personal accountability (you use your real name) - and the prospect of moderation. With every forum participant lost, the chance is high that their economic support is also lost. While the forum is a tiny part of the business that is RP, IMO, the opportunities available to RP to use it to their advantage are for the most part being wasted ... having venom and conflicts on public display weekly can't possibly be good for any business model. One display of intolerance or personal attack allowed to stand undoes many dozens of great posts by the rest of the community.
Yeah so?
In the end, this post isn't about me. It isn't about Brandon. Its about the much bigger picture - the direction of the RP forum and your own personal interactions with others here. Want to talk about anything other than politics - fine. But talk about politics at your own peril here - for there are nearly no limits to what will be tolerated in the forum - Brandon's recent malicious allegations and personal attacks, which he refuses to either prove or retract - and has paid no observable consequences for, have reinforced this for us all once again - as if some of us needed a reminder.
Unless things change around here, which I highly doubt, I see the pattern continuing on. That's truly sad.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
ADDENDUM:
I'd also like to point out that the lack of effective moderation also has had negative effects on one of the most important areas on this entire website - the song comments area. Talk about cutting your own throat there...
And a heartfelt thank you to those of you who stepped in to address an RP member's question and refute the allegations made by Brandon. Your efforts did not go unnoticed. If the forum had any semblance of moderation, such events wouldn't likely occur in the first place.
And now a word from our sponsor
I laughed so hard at this pic Sean posted the other day. Couldn't breathe much and my eyes were leaking big time.
For me, this pic truly says it all.
Thank you Sean for reminding us there's much more important things out there than dysfunctional Innerweb forums and the crazy people they attract.
for not being about you, this whole post is ... surprise ... all about you!
I am willing to bet that only the people involved directly in this particular dispute are upset over this and that the overwhelming majority of RP peeps are just perusing through this thread and getting some good entertainment! As far as the supposed lack of civility of this forum, compared to many other forums of public opinion this one is quite tame and friendly and I think the effect of this incident on the entire forum is being WAY overblown and overstated. Is Beaker a racist? I have seen no evidence of this. Was Brandog being over dramatic and hyperbolic in this claim? Probably. Will this have a lasting negative effect on Rpeeps ability to enjoy our community? I seriously doubt it!
You'd lose that bet. Also, your limited knowledge regarding RP history negates this post.
I am willing to bet that only the people involved directly in this particular dispute are upset over this and that the overwhelming majority of RP peeps are just perusing through this thread and getting some good entertainment! As far as the supposed lack of civility of this forum, compared to many other forums of public opinion this one is quite tame and friendly and I think the effect of this incident on the entire forum is being WAY overblown and overstated. .... Will this have a lasting negative effect on Rpeeps to enjoy our community? I seriously doubt it!
I am willing to bet that only the people involved directly in this particular dispute are upset over this and that the overwhelming majority of RP peeps are just perusing through this thread and getting some good entertainment! As far as the supposed lack of civility of this forum, compared to many other forums of public opinion this one is quite tame and friendly and I think the effect of this incident on the entire forum is being WAY overblown and overstated. Is Beaker a racist? I have seen no evidence of this. Was Brandog being over dramatic and hyperbolic in this claim? Probably. Will this have a lasting negative effect on Rpeeps ability to enjoy our community? I seriously doubt it!
OH, there's you, and probably the KKK, you know, people like you.
And, I can say the above without even feeling a little bit bad about it - you've been around here long enough - I've read your opinions on race, disability, gender, immigration, etc., - IMO you are one of the most inhumane, heartless people I never ever want to meet.
brandog wrote:
Yep, I started this thread - you can't make me un-start it - the articles and links I have posted demonstrate that, even though the sickness is shrinking in the world, those like you, who think that people with disabilities, people of color, women, etc., are less valuable than your narrow-minded white supremicist ass to this world, is still prevalent.
Beaker wrote:
Brandon,
Just to address this latest personal attack - and these fallacious charges of yours —
Please explain to the class:
1) why you are unable to cite anything I have written that supports your comments about my views on race, disability, gender, immigration, etc. Feel free to request any of your fellow like-minded folk to chime in and support your views and affirm they have seen something,somewhere that I have written on these topics - supporting your accusations, of course.
2) where you get the charge of "white-supremacist" from and why you feel you are justified in attaching it to me. Show your work.
3) and lastly, as you look at my upload history here on RP, and my top rated tunes, please explain how your charge that my supposed dislike for people of color, those with disabilities, and of course women, are reflected in the music I have personally selected as my favorites. Surely there must be some glaring omissions you can point to.
Your response here is required. Failing to respond is not an option. You will also receive these comments by PM.
You now have the choice of proving your charges or publicly retracting them. Choose one.
I let it go for awhile I didn't want anybody hiding under the table waiting for the Black helicopters to come for them, all day Everybody put the aluminum foil back on their heads..........
Wouldn't have changed my day any; I always am waiting for the helicopters and the aluminum foil on the head is mandatory daily attire!
Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe Gender:
Posted:
Aug 28, 2009 - 10:35am
oldman wrote:
I let it go for awhile I didn't want anybody hiding under the table waiting for the Black helicopters to come for them, all day Everybody put the aluminum foil back on their heads..........
I let it go for awhile I didn't want anybody hiding under the table waiting for the Black helicopters to come for them, all day Everybody put the aluminum foil back on their heads..........
Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe Gender:
Posted:
Aug 28, 2009 - 10:17am
oldman wrote:
It's just a script that echos what your browser already sends out every time you look at a web page everybody sees their own information disconcerting for a second eh?
It's just a script that echos what your browser already sends out every time you look at a web page everybody sees their own information disconcerting for a second eh?
Trouble is, when a wingnut finally snaps off from reality check information overload, they tend to reach for the nearest firearm and go somewhere to start shooting people.
Oh you and your radical left wing agenda! All that stuff above never happened, it is just your bohemian hippie right hemisphere that is distorting the truth or maybe even Obamas evil socialistic mind control device, I don't know, but all of these hundreds and hundreds of false news stories are getting out of hand! (My cheek hurts!)
Trouble is, when a wingnut finally snaps off from reality check information overload, they tend to reach for the nearest firearm and go somewhere to start shooting people.
Earlier this year, Congress passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 without a single Republican vote in the House of Representatives and with the support of only three Republicans in the Senate. This stimulus bill, which included $552 billion in spending and $275 billion in tax cuts, has provided much-needed support to state and local economies across the country. Cognizant to this fact, conservatives have jumped on the chance to personally deliver stimulus money to their cash-strapped states and districts, while conveniently brushing past their original opposition. A two-faced approach to the stimulus debate has become routine for many Republicans, with many GOP lawmakers who are standing against the stimulus in Washington, D.C., but touting it when they travel home to their constituents.
CONGRESSIONAL HYPOCRITES: Several House Republicans who opposed the Recovery Act quickly returned to their districts to tout projects that it funded. Stimulus opponent Rep. Joseph Cao (R-LA) met with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (D) and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood recently to solicit stimulus money for streetcar expansions and road repairs. Cao proudly boasted that he is looking "at federal monies that the state has and channeling more of that money to the district." Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) earlier this month asked for stimulus funds to be diverted into paying down the deficit rather than paying it out to states. But the same day he took credit for the construction site at Blue Grass Army Depot in Madison County, Kentucky — a project that was funded in large part by the Recovery Act. One of the most brazen acts of hypocrisy came from House Minority Whip Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA), who has repeatedly claimed that the stimulus is "failing" to create jobs. Earlier this month, Cantor appeared at a job fair in Midlothian, VA, to demonstrate how he is working on "long-term solutions that will put...Virginia workers back on the path to financial stability." But scores of jobs advertised at the jobs fair were created by the stimulus, and Chesterfield County, where the fair was being held, will receive more than $38 million in stimulus funding over the next two years.
HYPOCRITICAL GOVERNORS: Republican governors lined up to attack the Recovery Act and oppose its passage as well. Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA), said if he was still a member of Congress he would've voted against the stimulus and wrote an op-ed in Politico lambasting the Recovery Act's effect, calling it the "stimulus that has not stimulated." Yet the very next day, he appeared with constituents in Louisiana to present a jumbo-sized check of federal grant money authorized under the Recovery Act to residents of Vernon Parish. He later toured the state in a "Louisiana Working" tour, handing out millions of dollars of stimulus money while simultaneously attacking "Washington Spending." Similarly, Gov. Mark Sanford (R-SC) wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal last year titled "Don't Bail Out My State," proudly boasting about being the only governor to travel to Washington to lobby against the stimulus package. Yet after the legislation was passed, Sanford changed his mind and told reporters that being against the Recovery Act "doesn't preclude taking the money." In April, Sanford became the last governor to seek economic recovery funds.
THE STIMULUS IS WORKING: The Council of Economic Advisers, in a report released earlier this month, called the Recovery Act the "boldest countercyclical fiscal stimulus in American history" and concluded that the stimulus added nearly 500,000 jobs to the economy in the second quarter of 2009 that would not have been there without it. Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME), one of the few Republicans who voted in favor of the stimulus, noted last March that even "those who were opposed to the stimulus spending will see some of the projects that are underway in their communities as they've initiated." Snowe said she believes that the effect of the spending has been to create an "amazing" number of projects in her home state. Many conservatives who opposed the stimulus or the idea of Keynesian spending in general have started to line up to defend the Recovery Act. On Aug. 7, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who served as Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) chief economic adviser during his 2008 campaign, told reporters that "no one would argue that the stimulus has done nothing." Three days later, Niall Ferguson of the conservative Hoover Institution said the Recovery Act "has clearly made a significant contribution to stabilizing the US economy."
Oh you and your radical left wing agenda! All that stuff above never happened, it is just your bohemian hippie right hemisphere that is distorting the truth or maybe even Obamas evil socialistic mind control device, I don't know, but all of these hundreds and hundreds of false news stories are getting out of hand! (My cheek hurts!)