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Index » Internet/Computer » The Web » startpage.com
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Zep

Zep Avatar



Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 10:16am

good work everybody below. Thanks Beak and Kurt for the background explanations.

 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 8:57am

 Beaker wrote:

Depends where the proxy servers are based.  If you are surfing via a single proxy located in the US, perhaps your protection is not so great as one might think.  Depends on the provider.  Some have a publicly stated policy of keeping NO logs.  Others keep logs for a finite time.  Depends on the purpose of the proxy - some people use a proxy to bypass the firewalls and mechanisms that their educational institutions or employers put in place to prevent 'time-wasting'.  The logs on those proxy servers ... not such a big deal, really.  If your proxy keeps logs, well, your fate is in their hands and/or the privacy laws (or inter-government cooperation), or lack thereof, in their country.

Again, really serious folks investigate how proxies work and where and when to use them.  Tor is a nifty proxy because its never the same path - plus you're often connecting through boxes that aren't setup to log a damn thing — so the trail runs cold rather fast.

Of course if someone really, really wants to find you and track you, say someone with deep pockets - like say any TLA LEA, all bets are off.  You'll most likely compromise yourself and open your habits to them by falling for a trap they'll lure ya to.  Like say a specially crafted email, or post on a web, with maybe a trickster link...  (totally safe weirdness)
 
Thanks Beaker, that is what I suspected. You really know your stuff!{#Cheers}
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 8:41am

 Beaker wrote:

Who is they?  If you are really interested in covering your tracks, you make it as difficult as possible for any interested parties to trace you.  You don't use your ISP's DNS.  You use maybe something like startpage (although I'm personally not all that concerned about using Goog).  You do your surfing via a proxy.  You find a good proxy list versus using a single way-too-popular one.  If you're really serious, you look into Tor.
 
Yes, I have used Tor, the they I was referring to was the proxy servers themselves. Basically, my point was if they find the proxy server, cannot they find the traffic? (they in this case would be whoever was interested, whether it be FBI, software and gaming companies, the recording or movie industry, so forth).  I actually don't care anymore, I was paranoid about that stuff before leading to the use of Tor, but found proxy servers slowed down the surfing so much it was not worth it. Basically my protection is not downloading anything anymore unless it is a legitimate pay for file site and using private surfing that does not save anything to your hard drive while accessing my banking site as well as using firewall and complete internet protection suites, keeping the .dat files up to date. Norton has done well for me in this capacity. But as far as eventually tracing your IP address, if an agency or someone wants to find you, even using Tor, is this not possible? I am actually asking, I do not know for sure.

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 6:56am

 sirdroseph wrote:
But isn't truly anonymous surfing an impossibility? Don't they always have traffic history logs on whatever proxy server you go through? I mean, if you choose a proxy server in a notoriously non-regulated country such as Panama, you will be less likely traced, but still can be with enough motivation and vigilance to trace the trail by the authorities?
 
If I could, I would become an internet attorney, I am fascinated by the social aspects of this subject.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 6:52am

 Beaker wrote:

Uhhh.  Not quite.  Sure, it may provide some search results without invading your privacy or storing your info anywhere (who knows - only their admins do)... BUT ... click on any link to read more on the topic from one and those search results and *poof* Buh-bye anonymity.  You're only anonymous doing the search, but not in reading more — which is what we ALL do when we see a search result that interests us — we CLICK ON IT.

I don't know nuthin' from nuthin' about this here startpage.com.  I merely used a simple test to see how it behaved when I clicked a link from its results.

Try a test yourself.

Do this: visit www.WhatIsMyIp.com - a safe site that provides a handy service for when you wanna know the pubic IP your ISP is dishing you.  Note your very public IP address traceable to you and you alone.

Then go to startpage.com.  Search for 'what is my ip' in the search box.  The first hit should be whatismyip.com  Click on it.  Note the IP address now displayed as yours.

Is the IP address different?  If yes, they are anonymizing your web access and ya can surf safely. 

If the address is the same, you are just as exposed as you were before if you had used Google or what have you - and clicked on the link.

—-
Be clear in your understanding of what you are getting at startpage.com — from my limited testing, it appears to be only a search site that protects you from storing anything at the evvil Google's, Microsoft's and Yahoo's — to name the biggies.  That site offers you no protection whatsoever if you search for pink panties, see a result you like and click on through to surf to www.pinkpanties.wow  The folks at pink panties will put a cookie on your computer and know where ya live, more or less — because there's nuthin associated with your use of startpage.com that prevents that from happening.

Now if you are looking for totally anonymous surfing, so y'know, you can look up how to make a bomb, or wanna check out Ebon's crap because you are ummm, curious, well then the topic you want to look into is a proxy service.  Let's use Goog to find us some.  Use a real proxy like one of those and the IP address that pinkpanties.wow sees might make them think you are in Kansas.  Or Nome.  Or maybe Shenzhen... who knows?  Proxys be random.  Kinda.

There ya go.



  But isn't truly anonymous surfing an impossibility? Don't they always have traffic history logs on whatever proxy server you go through? I mean, if you choose a proxy server in a notoriously non-regulated country such as Panama, you will be less likely traced, but still can be with enough motivation and vigilance to trace the trail by the authorities?

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 6:37am

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Whatever, dude.  Why does anyone need to search completely anonymously?  It's a haven for n'er-do-wells to do their searching and researching.  Bomb-making, child-porn, drugs, snuff films, executions, etc.  I'm not paranoid.  I don't wear a tin-foil hat.  I'm just a realist.  It's an ugly world.

 
jimi, it is an ugly world.

this isn't so much about searching anonymously or havens for bad guys.

it's about rights.

where do these people get the right to gather data, profile you, good or bad?

who has a higher claim to your privacy and your business than you?

why would google, companies or government agencies want this data?

"anything you say (or do) can and will be used against you in a court of law"

if people waive their rights and willingly give their permission to be profiled is one thing, violating their rights without their permission is another.

regards

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 10, 2010 - 5:24am

 Beaker wrote:

...

Try a test yourself.

Do this: visit
www.WhatIsMyIp.com - a safe site that provides a handy service for when you wanna know the pubic IP your ISP is dishing you.  Note your very public IP address traceable to you and you alone.

Then go to startpage.com.  Search for 'what is my ip' in the search box.  The first hit should be whatismyip.com  Click on it.  Note the IP address now displayed as yours.

Is the IP address different?  If yes, they are anonymizing your web access and ya can surf safely. 

If the address is the same, you are just as exposed as you were before if you had used Google or what have you - and clicked on the link.

—-
Be clear in your understanding of what you are getting at startpage.com — from my limited testing, it appears to be only a search site that protects you from storing anything at the evvil Google's, Microsoft's and Yahoo's — to name the biggies.  That site offers you no protection whatsoever if you search for pink panties, see a result you like and click on through to surf to www.pinkpanties.wow  The folks at pink panties will put a cookie on your computer and know where ya live, more or less — because there's nuthin associated with your use of startpage.com that prevents that from happening.

Now if you are looking for totally anonymous surfing, so y'know, you can look up how to make a bomb, or wanna check out Ebon's crap because you are ummm, curious, well then the topic you want to look into is a proxy service.  Let's use Goog to find us some.  Use a real proxy like one of those and the IP address that pinkpanties.wow sees might make them think you are in Kansas.  Or Nome.  Or maybe Shenzhen... who knows?  Proxys be random.  Kinda.

There ya go.



 
Thanks.  Just did the test and yes my IP was different.  Again, an important note, is the blue Proxy button right after the green listed url after the site summary.  You must click on that Proxy button in order to go to that site via a real proxy.
.
What Is My IP is the fastest and easiest way to determine .. ****
What Is My IP is the easiest way to determine your IP address. ... © Copyright 2007-2010 WhatIsMyIP.com.np. What Is My IP & Utilities Service by ITWeb Developer ...
www.whatismyip.com.np - Proxy - Highlight - 1 more top result from this site

To those that think this is overkill or paranoia, well you just can't be too careful anymore.  With a terabyte of storage retailing for $100, storage space is just plain cheaper than a loaf of bread.  For example, I visit my primary grocery store's website to check on my rewards status that I accumulate for gas discounts periodically and they have every purchase of everything listed for me (and them) to review.  If I purchased rolling papers there, it would be logged, the brand of cigarettes, the brand of wine and how much.  Its a marketing tool and a preference tool.  This collected info will profile you and your habits.  Same with websurfing.

Why can we block the display of our telephone numbers ?  Because there are some people and places we do not wish to share our number with,  this is no different.  For places you visit on the web on a regular basis and are happy and comfortable with, like here, this step is unnecessary.  But for places you have never been before on a cold search, why give them your phone number if you don't have too ?

Is this bulletproof ?  Only a fool would assume that.  It is however another tool to maintain some control over one's privacy.  For us boomers whose life is winding down, meh ? or not.  But just imagine someone who is 20 something.  The potential exists to track every mouse click you make for your entire life.  Drink a lot ?  Buy wine on the net ? (don't know that you can, but ...) and after 40 years of buying a case of wine a week and your liver goes kaput, the potential exists for someone to say, Well, Hells Bells, you drank yourself into this condition, so no liver transplant for you ... 

I could go on about cash vs. plastic and how not using cash costs you your anonyminity and so forth, but I have to go to work shortly, and if you care you already know.

Just sayin ...

{#Cheers}

jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 11:26pm

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:

Whatever, dude.  Why does anyone need to search completely anonymously?  It's a haven for n'er-do-wells to do their searching and researching.  Bomb-making, child-porn, drugs, snuff films, executions, etc.  I'm not paranoid.  I don't wear a tin-foil hat.  I'm just a realist.  It's an ugly world.

 
Them. Not you. Well, maybe. I dunno.
*edit*
But I do not believe Kurtster to be a terrorist in training nor a pedophile nor of the nature that your sicko-beneath-every-rock fear has projected. Maybe the people who use such a service are those who feel that the corporations and government have no legitimate right to be building a data dossier of every 'net user. Seems to be more rational than your paranoiac suspicions.

Jimi_the_Saint

Jimi_the_Saint Avatar

Location: Kan-tu-kee
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 11:04pm

 jadewahoo wrote:


 
Whatever, dude.  Why does anyone need to search completely anonymously?  It's a haven for n'er-do-wells to do their searching and researching.  Bomb-making, child-porn, drugs, snuff films, executions, etc.  I'm not paranoid.  I don't wear a tin-foil hat.  I'm just a realist.  It's an ugly world.
jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 10:04pm

 Jimi_the_Saint wrote:
Sounds like a way for pedophiles and would-be terrorists to look up crap without getting caught.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

~Buffalo Springfield

 


Jimi_the_Saint

Jimi_the_Saint Avatar

Location: Kan-tu-kee
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 9:49pm

Sounds like a way for pedophiles and would-be terrorists to look up crap without getting caught.
GeneP59

GeneP59 Avatar

Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 9:11pm

Heard this on of all places Coast to Coast AM about 6 months ago. It is a great way to search out things anonymously. The only drawback is that it tends to be really really slow in coming up with all the info you want, but I'm happy with it as long as the man doesn't use me as a test subject.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 8:51pm

 emeraldrose63 wrote:
Okay. I am totally out of it.. I have no idea really what this means.. {#Lol}

 
All it really is, is a way to protect your privacy.  Perhaps you are curious about a particular subject and are not sure what you may find, its a way to protect you from being tracked or spammed by the website you may stumble upon.  Sure, its a way to stay under the radar, avoid the big brother thing.  But with traditional search engines like google and others, every click is recorded in a data base and stored forever.  Who knows what will become of this data.  Best way not to find out is to avoid it being recorded in the first place.  This is a way to do that.

Your harmless activity can be someone else's goldmine.

emeraldrose63

emeraldrose63 Avatar



Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 8:10pm

Okay. I am totally out of it.. I have no idea really what this means.. {#Lol}
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 7:45pm

 miamizsun wrote:

Been using it for a while.

Please look here: EFF Encrypt the Web with Firefox Everywhere

And you must look here: The SSD Project (super f'n important)
 
Thanks for those links.  It seems to be appropriate to step things up a notch.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 7:35pm

 kurtster wrote:
Just found out about this new search engine that seems to allow totally anonymous websurfing.

https://startpage.com/   Note the "s"

Note that in the results, there is a blue proxy button at the end of the description.  Click on it and you maintain your anonyminity.  I cannot guarentee this is true, but so far, so good.  Perhaps someone else may know more ?

Once again, thanks C 2 C !

 
Been using it for a while.

Please look here: EFF Encrypt the Web with Firefox Everywhere

And you must look here: The SSD Project (super f'n important)

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2010 - 7:24pm

Just found out about this new search engine that seems to allow totally anonymous websurfing.

https://startpage.com/   Note the "s"

Note that in the results, there is a blue proxy button at the end of the description.  Click on it and you maintain your anonyminity.  I cannot guarentee this is true, but so far, so good.  Perhaps someone else may know more ?

Once again, thanks C 2 C !