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oldviolin

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Posted: Jul 28, 2022 - 2:56pm

nuggler

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 6:16pm



CORPORATIST NEWS WANT TO IGNORE WANT CAN NOT BE IGNORED !!!
Leave it to Democracy Now to actually give decent coverage for "TRUE DEMOCRACY" at work.


Voices From the 100,000-Strong Protest for Workers' Rights in Wisconsin

www.democracynow.org

Play_madison_rally

More than 100,000 people rallied in Madison on Saturday against Wisconsin Republican Gov. Scott Walker’s effort to remove the collective bargaining rights of most public-sector workers. It was the largest demonstration Madison has seen since the Vietnam War. We broadcast some of the voices from the rally.




nuggler

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Location: RU Sirius ?
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 6:11pm



THE WORLD SOCIALIST'S WEBSITE'S (WSWS) TAKE ON POSSIBLE DEMOCRAT'S CAPITULATION TO WALKER
I hope the WSWS has got it wrong. This would be a terrible blow if the Union leaders actually ally themselves with the Corporatists.


After demonstration of 100,000, union officials prepare to end Wisconsin struggle

By Tom Eley
28 February 2011

 

CapitolThe demonstration in front of the Capitol building

Saturday saw the largest demonstration yet in the struggle of Wisconsin workers and youth against a bill pushed by Governor Scott Walker that would force major wage cuts on government workers and gut workplace rights.

 

An estimated 70,000 to 100,000 demonstrated in Madison, in spite of bitter cold and snow. The mood in the demonstration was one of determined opposition to the Republican governor’s attack on the working class. (See “Wisconsin workers and youth speak out.”)

(...)



nuggler

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 5:44pm

PEACEFUL DISSENT. . . NOW PEACEFUL CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE IN WI !!!
Collective bargaining advocates/protesters for Unions defy police order to evacuate "their" capital building. Rep. Kelda Helen Roys (D), represents the 81st Assembly District in Wisconsin explains the situation in detail here.

Defying Gov. Walker, Wisconsin Protesters Refuse to Leave Capitol Building


Play_rep_roys

Hundreds of demonstrators continue the round-the-clock occupation of the Wisconsin State Capitol building in defiance of orders to leave. Capitol Police have refused to enforce Gov. Scott Walker’s demand after hundreds of peaceful labor activists, students and supporters held their ground. We speak to Wisconsin Democratic State Rep. Kelda Helen Roys, who was among those to stay overnight in the Capitol building.


A beautiful thing to behold. Americans walking like an Egyptian.

aflanigan

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 10:35am

 Southern_Boy wrote:

That's my point. Unfortunately, the rating system is as bad as some of the working conditions. Again, not the teachers' fault. There are so many problems on so many levels. Like I said this problem developed over many years - fixing it won't be easy.

We should be looking at successful educational system in other states or countries. Most of the problems are rooted in money (duh!).
 
Don't be too eager to hold other educational systems up as standards to aspire to.  International comparisons based on test scores are fraught with problems.

Many countries have cultures, and school systems, that are rather uniform, such that an elementary school in one region is indistinguishable from a similar school elsewhere; same demographics, same budget, etc.

In the US we have such a diversity of cultures, funding resources on the local level, educational cultures and regulations on the local level, that we essentially represent a microcosm of education around the globe.  It is both a strength and weakness of US public education.  The best high schools (such as those found in places like Mamaronek, NY that were featured in Jay Mathews' Class Struggle) are well funded and professionally administered, with engaging teachers and fairly rich and challenging curriculum.  Such schools can be compared favorably with the high schools of virtually any nation on earth, and can even withstand comparison to private high schools in terms of the quality of education they offer and the caliber of students who pass through.  The worst schools, found in urban or rural areas that have no substantial local tax base and are overwhelmed by low SES students, stressful neighborhoods, high teacher turnover, constant clamor for "results" in the form of test score increases, etc. are comparable to schools found in third world countries.  They struggle and often fail to help their overwhelmed students learn basic skills such as literacy and numeracy that students in privileged schools are well on their way to mastering often before they even enter kindergarten.  In between are all the rest, blending varying degrees of mediocrity, promise, adequacy, etc.

But such diversity is also potentially the great strength of our "common school" heritage.  When you have diverse communities with diverse needs (and perhaps different social notions of what being "well educated" means), schools that are not controlled and regulated on a national level can more easily meet the unique needs of their community.  We should not be so quick to embrace educational uniformity without being absolutely clear about what we are giving up in seeking to emulate other standardized national school systems.

If we could wave a magic wand and make our educational system, and our society, substantially uniform and culturally homogeneous like Japan or Singapore, we would see similarly improved results on these bogus international comparisons, but such a task is basically impossible.  Even if we could centralize control of K-12 education and inflict uniform national standards, that would not help much.  We've tried for the past 40 or 50 years to tweak everything that could be tweaked, with no success (see WHAT NO SCHOOL CAN DO).  As Traub's article hints, school reform by itself cannot achieve the substantial, sweeping improvement we desire.  To really achieve the desired goal, you have to make our entire society essentially uniform by dispersing pockets of concentrated low income SES families and relocating them to areas like Mamaronek, NY (see BETTER THAN A VOUCHER, A TICKET TO SUBURBIA).   And while there are many schools that suffer from a lack of adequate funding, we've known for some time that simply throwing money at the problem, at least on a federal level, has had limited success in producing lasting improvement in educational outcomes.

If you want to talk more on this topic we should move the discussion to the appropriate FORUM


cc_rider

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 10:06am

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:
How is a bad teacher rated in NJ? Cripes, when my sister and I were subbing in the 70's - in Trenton - you practically needed a flak jacket to walk into a classroom. All either of us sustained was a hard-cover book to the head, thank Meaty.
 
Indeed. I'ma use that too, ifyoudon'tmind.

hippiechick

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 5:25am

Farrakhan: Revolution imminent in U.S.

Nation of Islam leader also praises Scientology to crowd at Allstate Arena

By Becky Schlikerman, Tribune reporter

10:55 PM CST, February 27, 2011

 
 

Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan predicted on Sunday that America faces imminent uprisings that mirror those in the Middle East.

"What you are looking at in Tunisia, in Egypt … Libya, in Bahrain … what you see happening there … you'd better prepare because it will be coming to your door," Farrakhan said in a booming voice, thousands of followers cheering in response.

Farrakhan called on President Barack Obama to allow protesters to march, urging the president not to attack innocent people when they do. The controversial minister spoke to a packed house at the Allstate Arena in Rosemont as part of the 81st annual celebration of Saviours' Day, which marks the birth of the faith's founder, W. Fard Muhammad.

The keynote address, titled "God Will Send Saviours," capped a weekend of workshops focused on health, preparing for natural disasters and unidentified flying objects. The Nation of Islam believes in a UFO called "the wheel" or "the Mother Plane." Farrakhan has described a 1985 religious experience in which he ascended into a flying saucer and heard the voice of Elijah Muhammad predicting events that came to pass.

Speaking for about four hours Sunday, Farrakhan jumped from topic to topic. He praised Scientology and its founder, L. Ron Hubbard. Farrakhan extolled the virtues of Scientology and its auditing process, which is considered spiritual counseling by its members.

"L. Ron Hubbard is so exceedingly valuable to every Caucasian person on this Earth," Farrakhan said. "L. Ron Hubbard himself was and is trying to civilize white people and make them better human beings and take away from them their reactive minds. … Mr. Hubbard recognized that his people have to be civilized," Farrakhan said to a cheering crowd.

bschlikerman@tribune.com



Southern_Boy

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Posted: Feb 28, 2011 - 5:03am

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

How is a bad teacher rated in NJ? Cripes, when my sister and I were subbing in the 70's - in Trenton - you practically needed a flak jacket to walk into a classroom. All either of us sustained was a hard-cover book to the head, thank Meaty.

Another friend of mine is now a math teacher in the Trenton school district - middle school. Class stops when one of the young ladies in the class feels her baby kick. Who's teaching the next generation of teachers how to function in such chaos?

It's not an even slate. Not all classrooms are alike.
 

That's my point. Unfortunately, the rating system is as bad as some of the working conditions. Again, not the teachers' fault. There are so many problems on so many levels. Like I said this problem developed over many years - fixing it won't be easy.

We should be looking at successful educational system in other states or countries. Most of the problems are rooted in money (duh!).

justlistening

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 10:18pm

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:


It's not an even slate. Not all classrooms are alike.
 

{#Yes}
justlistening

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 10:17pm

 Southern_Boy wrote:

Christie is not in the NJ pension system. He declined. I know the teachers here think they are getting picked on. My gripe isn't with the teachers (my daughter is one and she agrees with me), its the system. You can't get rid of the bad ones. The good ones should be paid more. The system right now serves to demoralize the good teachers since everyone is treated the same, good or bad - and there are some bad teachers. What incentive do teachers have to improve themselves and continue to perform at a high level when the teacher in the next room does nothing and is paid exactly the same and can't be fired?? As for benefits, I have to pay for my health care and retirement. I don't think I should have to pay for public workers also. While I don't agree with everything being done, this problem took a long time to get to this point. It will not be an easy or painless fix.

 
I agree with you on the system.  Teachers usually get paid based on years and education.  It's a chart. You're right, where's the incentive?  On the other hand how do you measure performance?  Scores seem simple, but for example: My sister teaches learning disabled kids.  Her district doesn't always adjust for these kid's deficiencies and many times her kids' scores simply can't compete.  On the other hand, her scores are among the highest district wide for this group and she just won teacher of the year - but that really isn't looked at.

On the other hand, her husband teaches taught middle school in Irvington (he retired last year) - a school where state school officials were afraid to enter because they thought they might get shot.  He's seen teachers beaten up by students without ramification because the principal is also scared of retaliation - many are gang kids.  In my opinion he deserves hazard pay for sticking with the kids in that system that were trying to learn in that chaos. He taught there over 20 years (granted it started out better and got worse over time)  Yet people will still write in blaming the teachers for the scores because they have no idea what goes on there.

I don't have an answer, and agree there needs to be a change - it's just unfortunate that a fiscal crisis is behind it.

(by the way - I'm pretty sure that teachers have deductions from their pay for healthcare while they work - not sure about when they retire though.  If they didn't that sure would be a treat - I'll have to ask).

BlueHeronDruid

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Location: planting flowers


Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 9:35pm

 Southern_Boy wrote:

Christie is not in the NJ pension system. He declined. I know the teachers here think they are getting picked on. My gripe isn't with the teachers (my daughter is one and she agrees with me), its the system. You can't get rid of the bad ones. The good ones should be paid more. The system right now serves to demoralize the good teachers since everyone is treated the same, good or bad - and there are some bad teachers. What incentive do teachers have to improve themselves and continue to perform at a high level when the teacher in the next room does nothing and is paid exactly the same and can't be fired?? As for benefits, I have to pay for my health care and retirement. I don't think I should have to pay for public workers also. While I don't agree with everything being done, this problem took a long time to get to this point. It will not be an easy or painless fix.
 
How is a bad teacher rated in NJ? Cripes, when my sister and I were subbing in the 70's - in Trenton - you practically needed a flak jacket to walk into a classroom. All either of us sustained was a hard-cover book to the head, thank Meaty.

Another friend of mine is now a math teacher in the Trenton school district - middle school. Class stops when one of the young ladies in the class feels her baby kick. Who's teaching the next generation of teachers how to function in such chaos?

It's not an even slate. Not all classrooms are alike.

Southern_Boy

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Location: On my way to the beach
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 9:25pm

 justlistening wrote:

I almost think NJ started it.  Christie is a conservative hero and I've heard him lauded even here in CA, but talk to teachers there (my sister and brother-in-law for example) and you'll here a very different story.  It's one thing to be fiscally prudent and another to demonize the people who are teaching your children.  The elected officials NEVER talk about their pensions.  Aren't the Governer and representatives public employees just like teachers?

As for the revolution  -

People get angry and rally when they feel the pain.  If the economy picks up and pockets fill again - we'll have more laws (red tape) to prevent whatever thre revolution is about and then people will go back to sleep.
 
Christie is not in the NJ pension system. He declined. I know the teachers here think they are getting picked on. My gripe isn't with the teachers (my daughter is one and she agrees with me), its the system. You can't get rid of the bad ones. The good ones should be paid more. The system right now serves to demoralize the good teachers since everyone is treated the same, good or bad - and there are some bad teachers. What incentive do teachers have to improve themselves and continue to perform at a high level when the teacher in the next room does nothing and is paid exactly the same and can't be fired?? As for benefits, I have to pay for my health care and retirement. I don't think I should have to pay for public workers also. While I don't agree with everything being done, this problem took a long time to get to this point. It will not be an easy or painless fix.

nuggler

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 2:08pm


Anonymous says they are going after tea party financiers Charles and David Koch for their attempts "to usurp American Democracy."


 
 

The decentralized protest group "Anonymous" has a new target: no, it's not a middle eastern dictator, a major bank or even a bit player in the military-industrial complex.

It's none other than tea party financiers Charles and David Koch, who were being targeted, an open letter stated, for their attempts "to usurp American Democracy."

"Koch Industries, and oligarchs like them, have most recently started to manipulate the political agenda in Wisconsin," an announcement posted to anonnews.org declared.

(...)




aflanigan

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 2:01pm

 nuggler wrote:


We're leaving your egotistical ass behind, Flanigan.   {#Wave}

Alternatively bring something relevant to the table.

 

Is that the royal "We"?

nuggler

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 12:31pm


nuggler

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 12:31pm

 aflanigan wrote:

{#High-five}
 

We're leaving your egotistical ass behind, Flanigan.   {#Wave}

Alternatively bring something relevant to the table.


aflanigan

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 12:29pm

 bokey wrote:
 nuggler wrote: and as usual I'm the only one who can see it.



 
{#High-five}

nuggler

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 12:28pm


aflanigan

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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 11:51am

 nuggler wrote:

I'll leave the slick putdowns to you, Flanigan & you leave connecting complex series of dots & gauging the bigger picture to me. We all have our fortes & I know where mine lies & that I'm exceptionally good at it.

 
But of course you are!!!

{#Wink}

 nuggler wrote:

Now do you have anything of worth to say about the American Revolution ?

George Washington may have been a good president, but he was not a very good field general.
justlistening

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Location: So. California
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Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 10:22am

 Southern_Boy wrote:
I don't see where this Wisconsin protest is a revolution so much as a protest to keep getting union protection for their health care and pension, which not many - not even the non-union folks - can easily afford. We're having a similar battle in NJ with the teachers' union. Many years of excess has finally come home to roost. Now, do we need a revolution? Absolutely!!!

 
I almost think NJ started it.  Christie is a conservative hero and I've heard him lauded even here in CA, but talk to teachers there (my sister and brother-in-law for example) and you'll here a very different story.  It's one thing to be fiscally prudent and another to demonize the people who are teaching your children.  The elected officials NEVER talk about their pensions.  Aren't the Governer and representatives public employees just like teachers?

As for the revolution  -

People get angry and rally when they feel the pain.  If the economy picks up and pockets fill again - we'll have more laws (red tape) to prevent whatever thre revolution is about and then people will go back to sleep.

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