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Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2016 - 3:16am

 R_P wrote:
Fooled again (cons are gonna con, while the original referendum cons were busy dismantling the NHS)...

Leading Brexit campaigner Iain Duncan Smith has distanced himself from a pledge by the official leave campaign to spend £350m “sent to the EU every week” on the NHS, saying he had never made the claim.

During the referendum campaign, Vote Leave issued posters reading: “Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week.” The campaign’s battlebus, outside which the former work and pensions secretary was frequently photographed, featured the slogan: “We send the EU £350 million a week – let’s fund our NHS instead.”

But asked about the statement on Sunday morning, Duncan Smith said he had never made the claim during the campaign.

Speaking to the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show, he said: “I never said that during the course of the election. The £350m was an extrapolation of the £19.1bn – that’s the total amount of money we gave across to the European Union. What we actually said was a significant amount of it would go to the NHS. It’s essentially down to the government, but I believe that is what was pledged and that’s what should happen. There was talk about it going to the NHS, but there are other bits and pieces like agriculture, which is part of the process. That is the divide up. It was never the total.”

He denied that his comments constituted a broken promise, saying: “The lion’s share of that money, the government is now able to spend. So people can say that there is more money available now for the NHS – categorically more, which is what’s required and that’s the key point.”

The repeated claim by the leave campaign that the UK could save £350m a week by leaving the EU was criticised in the run-up to the referendum, with the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies describing the figure as “clearly absurd” and estimating that Britain’s net contributions were closer to £175m a week.

Sir Andrew Dilnot, the chair of the UK Statistics Authority, twice reprimanded the campaign for using the figure, while Conservative MP Dr Sarah Wollaston said the claim that all of the money saved would go towards the health service meant she no longer felt comfortable being part of the Vote Leave campaign.

Speaking hours after the result of Thursday’s referendum was announced, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, said he could not promise money spent on the EU would instead go to the NHS. “I would never have made that claim, and it was one of the mistakes that the leave campaign made,” he said. “You must understand, I was ostracised by the official leave campaign and I did – as I always do – my own thing.”

A week before the referendum, pollsters working for Britain Stronger in Europe admitted that they were getting extremely worried about Vote Leave’s suggestion that £350m sent to the EU could be diverted to British priorities such as the NHS. Guardian focus groups in Brighton and Knowsley suggested many voters saw the message and believed it.

One woman in Merseyside told the group: “Just think, we could get £20bn back a year and make the country great again.”



 
The Brexit campaign was done by some people from the conservative party and the U.K. Independence party as far as I know. Maybe more people from other parties as well. There is not just one party with a certain opinion. So saying that the Brexit people fooled the British people is only partly true. It's a stu;pid issue because even when they would unite to one party and promise such things: wouldn't you require to rule the country first before you make such promises?
Also the armageddon, WWIII and complete economic destruction as promised by people from the Bremain group are not going to be there either. Are you going to complain about that too?
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2016 - 1:02am

Fooled again (cons are gonna con, while the original referendum cons were busy dismantling the NHS)...

Leading Brexit campaigner Iain Duncan Smith has distanced himself from a pledge by the official leave campaign to spend £350m “sent to the EU every week” on the NHS, saying he had never made the claim.

During the referendum campaign, Vote Leave issued posters reading: “Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week.” The campaign’s battlebus, outside which the former work and pensions secretary was frequently photographed, featured the slogan: “We send the EU £350 million a week – let’s fund our NHS instead.”

But asked about the statement on Sunday morning, Duncan Smith said he had never made the claim during the campaign.

Speaking to the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show, he said: “I never said that during the course of the election. The £350m was an extrapolation of the £19.1bn – that’s the total amount of money we gave across to the European Union. What we actually said was a significant amount of it would go to the NHS. It’s essentially down to the government, but I believe that is what was pledged and that’s what should happen. There was talk about it going to the NHS, but there are other bits and pieces like agriculture, which is part of the process. That is the divide up. It was never the total.”

He denied that his comments constituted a broken promise, saying: “The lion’s share of that money, the government is now able to spend. So people can say that there is more money available now for the NHS – categorically more, which is what’s required and that’s the key point.”

The repeated claim by the leave campaign that the UK could save £350m a week by leaving the EU was criticised in the run-up to the referendum, with the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies describing the figure as “clearly absurd” and estimating that Britain’s net contributions were closer to £175m a week.

Sir Andrew Dilnot, the chair of the UK Statistics Authority, twice reprimanded the campaign for using the figure, while Conservative MP Dr Sarah Wollaston said the claim that all of the money saved would go towards the health service meant she no longer felt comfortable being part of the Vote Leave campaign.

Speaking hours after the result of Thursday’s referendum was announced, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, said he could not promise money spent on the EU would instead go to the NHS. “I would never have made that claim, and it was one of the mistakes that the leave campaign made,” he said. “You must understand, I was ostracised by the official leave campaign and I did – as I always do – my own thing.”

A week before the referendum, pollsters working for Britain Stronger in Europe admitted that they were getting extremely worried about Vote Leave’s suggestion that £350m sent to the EU could be diverted to British priorities such as the NHS. Guardian focus groups in Brighton and Knowsley suggested many voters saw the message and believed it.

One woman in Merseyside told the group: “Just think, we could get £20bn back a year and make the country great again.”


Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 27, 2016 - 12:12am

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Crazy days. Progressive democrats hoping that a progressive democratic action will be delayed/cancelled by bureaucratic tricks or even plain lies. Just because the outcome is not what they want.

In the Netherlands we have a party called D66 that wants a referendum for every fart, except when it's about Europe. They are pro Europe and the average citizen is not, so they say it's too complicated for the normal people to put it in a referendum. It's almost childish.

Anyway... A few days later and almost every key player admitted that there was a plan for Brexit. There will be trade/travel deals and the economic problems will be not that big. 
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 4:12pm

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
Do we think Cameron's that smart?
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 26, 2016 - 4:03pm

Brexit may never happen...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 9:45pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I never really formed an opinion on Cameron but this was his baby. He wrote the rules of the game and now it occurs to people that maybe a supermajority should be the target. Now. I usually think that the UK system of elections is cool... what is it, like 5 weeks from when the election is announced to when they have a new PM? So efficient. Same with this referendum.
"Hey, let's have a referendum!"
One month later, "so, what sort of rules should we set down for this referendum?"
"You mean the one we held last week?"
"Oh, right. That one."
"You tit."

 
windex !!!!!!
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 9:37pm

 porphyrius wrote:
NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
EU Referendum: We don't really keep a welcome in the hillsides anymore, do we?

at Kurtster:  just for the record, there is a clear trend that those regions with the lowest immigration voted leave. All of the others where immigration is high (like London) voted remain. Need anymore proof that the anti-immigration crowd is just afraid of shadows in the dark and not a real threat? 

Are you sure you don't wanna take a Mulligan on this?  

 
How about a Mulligan for using a declared "opinion" piece as "proof" of anything ?

To noenz, if you want to talk about perceptions, then that's ok.  If you raise your question for me based upon my reply to islander in the Trump thread, then I would say that the opinion piece reinforces my thoughts expressed there to a large degree.

This has nothing to do with shadows in the dark as you say.  Maybe that's how you want to dismiss the actions of those who feel the way they do and project your opinion on them as reality.  

I wrote over in that thread , But unless you're living it, its very hard to understand.  

We all can wish that certain realities that do not make sense are not what they are.  I will proceed as if your assumption is correct, however.  If true, I will offer that we have seen a triumph of the Rural over the Urban Cosmopolitan running full tilt towards the New World Order©.  The same parallel could be made over here in the USA comparing the fly over states vesus the megalopolises of the Boston - Washington corridor, the SF / LA corridor in California, and the Seattle / PNW region.  If not for our Electoral College, we would never see anyone other than a Democrat elected POTUS because these 3 region's popular vote count is enough to nullify the rest of the country.

Moving on in regards to this discussion, a vote was offered and a vote was taken.  Turnout was 72% ?  Pretty remarkable in any election.  I'll also be the first to admit that I know not enough about the nuts and bolts political system in the UK, so perceptions are acceptable, per your premise.  The Rural were offered an opportunity to seize a moment and took it.  Their feeling that they have been ignored or disenfranchised was stronger and more numerous overall than those whose needs were being met.  Was Brexit a bluff that failed because it was called and voted on.  Maybe.  There was a tremendous amount of fear mongering projected about what an exit would do in the campaign to stay.  So was the vote to exit a call of bull puckey on the perceived elite's threats or was it just a simple, we have had enough of the insanity that is the EU ?  Don't know the answer, but I have a feeling that the two possibilities I offer are equal.  I left out hate and xenophobia as possibilities because my feeling is that they are probably the lowest on the list.  

This was a vote against a system, an organization that has one (of many) perception of being harmful to certain demographics.  To me there is a big difference between hate and being fed up.  Those that are the ones that those who are fed up with are defending their dysfunction and indifference by demonizing those fed up with the system as haters instead and trying to ignore the justification those who are fed up cite and say its something other than what it really is.

I have no idea of what I just said.  So with that, ymmv ...

Bonus points if you can diagram that sentence ... {#Mrgreen}
 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 8:02pm

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
I never really formed an opinion on Cameron but this was his baby. He wrote the rules of the game and now it occurs to people that maybe a supermajority should be the target. Now. I usually think that the UK system of elections is cool... what is it, like 5 weeks from when the election is announced to when they have a new PM? So efficient. Same with this referendum.
"Hey, let's have a referendum!"
One month later, "so, what sort of rules should we set down for this referendum?"
"You mean the one we held last week?"
"Oh, right. That one."
"You tit."
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 3:13pm

Can we have a do-over?
bokey

bokey Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 3:12pm

 Steely_D wrote:

We'll save Australia. Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.

 
Australia MUST be saved.I fear the world cannot survive a Vegemite shortage.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 12:14pm

It's Faux News
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 10:45am

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
and kind of ironic.. the All Blacks - a team made strong precisely because the multi-ethnic composition of New Zealand - absolutely thrashed them at the rugby today.

at Kurtster:  just for the record, there is a clear trend that those regions with the lowest immigration voted leave. All of the others where immigration is high (like London) voted remain. Need anymore proof that the anti-immigration crowd is just afraid of shadows in the dark and not a real threat? 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 9:46am

 bokey wrote:

Zackly,sorta.Wait for the optimum weather conditions so most of the fallout stays in the North Atlantic and on the Irish also!

I so get you!

edit- And Somalians,Arapahos and Mesopotamians.And the NY Yankees.

And catfish.


 
We'll save Australia. Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 9:43am

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

We should bomb the shit out of London now.

 




Not yet Syria will have to do for now, but don't worry there are plenty of other countries that are ripe for the bombin' we will eventually get to them, I promise regardless of which monster we elect.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 8:17am

EU Referendum: We don't really keep a welcome in the hillsides anymore, do we?
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 7:39am

 ScottN wrote:

Way, way too early to know.
The EU, like everywhere, will need some time to process what just happened in UK.  Dust will settle. Sometimes cooler heads can prevail
The quick reactions, in Scotland, Denmark, and elsewhere including buyer's remorse in UK, will give way to thoroughly considered options.
It is not out of the question that the UK rejoins in all but name in a newly negotiated "divorce".

 
Also - sometimes - cooler heads don't prevail. Sadly modern politics, with the addition of social media are frequently more driven by inflamed passion and ignorance than cool rational thought and action. Take the whole Brexit vote, for instance...
ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 6:54am

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Scotland starts drive to stay in EU, independence option open: Sturgeon

Looks highly likely that Scotland will go its own way.

Also, what enticements might Spain and the EU offer Gibraltar, who also voted to remain?

Not sure the word "great" will continue to apply to Britain after the dust settles. 

 
Way, way too early to know.
The EU, like everywhere, will need some time to process what just happened in UK.  Dust will settle. Sometimes cooler heads can prevail
The quick reactions, in Scotland, Denmark, and elsewhere including buyer's remorse in UK, will give way to thoroughly considered options.
It is not out of the question that the UK rejoins in all but name in a newly negotiated "divorce".
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 25, 2016 - 5:51am

Scotland starts drive to stay in EU, independence option open: Sturgeon

Looks highly likely that Scotland will go its own way.

Also, what enticements might Spain and the EU offer Gibraltar, who also voted to remain?

Not sure the word "great" will continue to apply to Britain after the dust settles. 
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