There is a âwhopperâ filed today in Supreme Court by Texas AG Ken Paxton: Texas suing Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia.
Edit: and just breaking: Supreme Court rejects petition of Rep. Mike Kelly seeking invalidation of mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania. Order rejecting the petition for emergency relief was issued with no dissents.
Interesting - I see that the very astute cleverness behind this 'whopper' is that there is no need to prove any kind of fraud. All that has to be proven is that they changed election laws by executive order and not by legislation as required by Article II, Section 1 Clause 2 of the US Constitution. Which they did. I've also seen several reports that say four other states have already joined Texas and more are likely to join suit. One report on a Chinese website says the total is now 10...but I don't believe it. We will see how many jump on the bandwagon but I'd venture that we could expect to see maybe 7 or 8.
This 'whopper' goes directly to the Supreme Court of the USA - and I have seen that the Supreme Court have added it to their docket but again not from a credible source. So it looks like it's probably game on. Not just a single 'whopper', but burgers, fries and drinks for the whole family. Enjoy...... *burp*....
Also - no '6 more days tick tock' The safe harbour of 8 Dec etc...all of that, those dates..14th Dec etc....none of that is in your Constitution. The only date that is set out in your Constitution is Inauguration Day - 12 noon EST 20 January, in accordance with your 20th Amendment.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, you might expect to see Martial Law, fresh elections overseen by the military, the Insurrection Act being invoked etc etc, not because he is a tyrannical dictator, but because it's actually his job to do that - defend the Constitution and the Republic from what has already been construed by some as treason. The treason narrative will only gain traction and its not without merit.
Deriding Donny and the Deplorables is taking aim at the wrong target - the target should be all those responsible for the kack-handed, sloppy and juvenile way the Democrats tried to swing this thing in favour of their "witness-protection' candidate. Very very poorly done, but understandable given the miscalculation of Trump support made from the outset, probably during the planning phases. Just poor. Sloppy, panicked and very badly executed.
The Deplorables are loving this, and they will not back down or fold their tents and go away until they are convinced that the election was fair. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is that simple. You want this to end? Convince them the election was not rigged. To do that you will have to hear them out, hear their lawsuits and decide thereon according to law. Declaring their suits as frivolous does nothing to strengthen your case and only add to their resolve. If they lost fair and square they will accept it. Very few of these cases are launched by the Trump campaign, btw. I believe they are 0/3 or thereabouts. The cases are being filed by a multitude of other groups and citizens etc. Every time a judge chucks out a suit without giving it a proper hearing fuels The Deplorables fires, and confirms to them that not only something very fishy happened, but that in the end they will win, because every step gets them closer to the Supreme Court. Everything you and your media channels say strengthens them. They are loving all of this. They are in their element. They are defending their Republic! I am amazed you won't see that 70-odd million MAGA-types, convinced that treason has been committed, won't be a laughable matter worthy of derision.
Fact checking stuff via Facebook-funded fact checkers and so on, trying to destroy arguments on the basis of character assassinations might confirm your own biases that Trump and the MAGA movement are a joke and sore losers and dumb and uneducated and crooked and all of that, yes; and you can carry on doing that, sure. But if you think an argument is baseless because of who brings it doesn't help you. Because the arguments do not seem baseless. Your overwhelming desire to see Trump and the MAGA movement gone does not set you up to comfortably deal with what looks likely to be coming.
You are probably going to lose this when it's all over and done with. Start to think about it.
Interesting days indeed.....
Yes, interesting days indeed. With 17 states now joining Texas, SCOTUS will bring the hammer down and settle it. I predict four more years of howling about stolen elections — from the left.
Interesting - I see that the very astute cleverness behind this 'whopper' is that there is no need to prove any kind of fraud. All that has to be proven is that they changed election laws by executive order and not by legislation as required by Article II, Section 1 Clause 2 of the US Constitution. Which they did. I've also seen several reports that say four other states have already joined Texas and more are likely to join suit. One report on a Chinese website says the total is now 10...but I don't believe it . We will see how many jump on the bandwagon but I'd venture that we could expect to see maybe 7 or 8.
This 'whopper' goes directly to the Supreme Court of the USA - and I have seen that the Supreme Court have added it to their docket but again not from a credible source. So it looks like it's probably game on. Not just a single 'whopper', but burgers, fries and drinks for the whole family. Enjoy...... *burp*....
Also - no '6 more days tick tock' The safe harbour of 8 Dec etc...all of that, those dates..14th Dec etc....none of that is in your Constitution. The only date that is set out in your Constitution is Inauguration Day - 12 noon EST 20 January, in accordance with your 20th Amendment.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, you might expect to see Martial Law, fresh elections overseen by the military, the Insurrection Act being invoked etc etc, not because he is a tyrannical dictator, but because it's actually his job to do that - defend the Constitution and the Republic from what has already been construed by some as treason. The treason narrative will only gain traction and its not without merit.
Deriding Donny and the Deplorables is taking aim at the wrong target - the target should be all those responsible for the kack-handed, sloppy and juvenile way the Democrats tried to swing this thing in favour of their "witness-protection' candidate. Very very poorly done, but understandable given the miscalculation of Trump support made from the outset, probably during the planning phases. Just poor. Sloppy, panicked and very badly executed.
The Deplorables are loving this, and they will not back down or fold their tents and go away until they are convinced that the election was fair. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is that simple. You want this to end? Convince them the election was not rigged. To do that you will have to hear them out, hear their lawsuits and decide thereon according to law. Declaring their suits as frivolous does nothing to strengthen your case and only add to their resolve. If they lost fair and square they will accept it. Very few of these cases are launched by the Trump campaign, btw. I believe they are 0/3 or thereabouts. The cases are being filed by a multitude of other groups and citizens etc. Every time a judge chucks out a suit without giving it a proper hearing fuels The Deplorables fires, and confirms to them that not only something very fishy happened, but that in the end they will win, because every step gets them closer to the Supreme Court. Everything you and your media channels say strengthens them. They are loving all of this. They are in their element. They are defending their Republic! I am amazed you won't see that 70-odd million MAGA-types, convinced that treason has been committed, won't be a laughable matter worthy of derision.
Fact checking stuff via Facebook-funded fact checkers and so on, trying to destroy arguments on the basis of character assassinations might confirm your own biases that Trump and the MAGA movement are a joke and sore losers and dumb and uneducated and crooked and all of that, yes; and you can carry on doing that, sure. But if you think an argument is baseless because of who brings it doesn't help you. Because the arguments do not seem baseless. Your overwhelming desire to see Trump and the MAGA movement gone does not set you up to comfortably deal with what looks likely to be coming.
You are probably going to lose this when it's all over and done with. Start to think about it. Interesting days indeed.....
That total is now 17 or 18 states which have now joined in this lawsuit. I tried bringing up this point that the Constitution and State Legislatures were more important than the individual lawsuits but was summarily taken apart and that "disagreement" helped launch the major shit storm that transpired in this thread a week or so ago. I wanted to expand the discussion to include this but was in no uncertain way told that I was out of line and out of bounds. And uninformed to put it nicely.
The whole of your post is pretty much spot on as I see things. While not necessarily going to Martial Law and all of that, this election could go to Congress for them to decide. The House picks the POTUS and the Senate picks the VPOTUS. It is all there in the Constitution. The SCOTUS can find that the POTUS election is screwed up beyond repair and send the decision to Congress to make. I feel that this is a very likely outcome. We could also see a similar campaign to the one run by Clinton in 2016 to get EC voters to change their votes. That was a loud and nasty one.
Oh and I finally got to see your pm from November. It went to the new website but not the old one where I reside for what ever reason. I guess that I will keep the new website open in a separate tab from now on.
This â well, really pretty much all of this post and your subsequent one â is ass-backwards. This presumes that the burden of proof of election fraud or a rigged election has been sufficiently established and the burden has shifted to those who believe Biden won the election to prove that Bidenâs election was not procured by fraud or otherwise via a rigged election. And proving this negative must be accomplished to the satisfaction of those who already have concluded that there was massive fraud orchestrated by the Democratic across several states â which, I am sure, we can agree will never happen, especially because Trump himself will never concede that he lost the election.
This is not our system. Election challenges can be brought in court. In a court of law, unlike the court of public opinion in which Trump and his lawyers prefer to play, the challenger must carry its burden of proof. It is not sufficient to throw out myriad allegations and argue that the result of an election should be overturned because it is possible that fraud might have occurred.
There is a reason why courts have been summarily dismissing these cases, issuing scathing opinions that the challenges seeking to disenfranchise hordes of voters and overturn the result of a presidential election are woefully unsupported by law and fact. That should speak for itself. Unfortunately, the ardent Trump supporters, egged on by Trump, are proving they do not believe in our system of law.
I have yet to see any trump supporter accept any of the court decisions against him, his campaign, or his surrogates. I mean, I reluctantly accept the Supreme Court decision that gave Bush victory over Gore, although I think it was a mistake. Until they do, there is no reason to think they believe in law & order. Not to wave a flag or anything, but I think the US is going to survive trump's assault on the constitution (although there will be long-term effects) and I think many countries in the world would not survive this kind of coup attempt.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Dec 9, 2020 - 4:30pm
R_P wrote:
steeler wrote:
There is a reason why courts have been summarily dismissing these cases, issuing scathing opinions that the challenges seeking to disenfranchise hordes of voters and overturn the result of a presidential election are woefully unsupported by law and fact.
They're in on it too! Everybody is!
Unfortunately, that is what many Trumpers believe. And, even worse, they think the Supreme Court will deliver a victory for Trump because he appointed 3 Justices and, presumably, they owe him.
There is a reason why courts have been summarily dismissing these cases, issuing scathing opinions that the challenges seeking to disenfranchise hordes of voters and overturn the result of a presidential election are woefully unsupported by law and fact.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Dec 9, 2020 - 3:48pm
Jiggz wrote:
Interesting - I see that the very astute cleverness behind this 'whopper' is that there is no need to prove any kind of fraud. All that has to be proven is that they changed election laws by executive order and not by legislation as required by Article II, Section 1 Clause 2 of the US Constitution. Which they did. I've also seen several reports that say four other states have already joined Texas and more are likely to join suit. One report on a Chinese website says the total is now 10...but I don't believe it. We will see how many jump on the bandwagon but I'd venture that we could expect to see maybe 7 or 8.
This 'whopper' goes directly to the Supreme Court of the USA - and I have seen that the Supreme Court have added it to their docket but again not from a credible source. So it looks like it's probably game on. Not just a single 'whopper', but burgers, fries and drinks for the whole family. Enjoy...... *burp*....
Also - no '6 more days tick tock' The safe harbour of 8 Dec etc...all of that, those dates..14th Dec etc....none of that is in your Constitution. The only date that is set out in your Constitution is Inauguration Day - 12 noon EST 20 January, in accordance with your 20th Amendment.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, you might expect to see Martial Law, fresh elections overseen by the military, the Insurrection Act being invoked etc etc, not because he is a tyrannical dictator, but because it's actually his job to do that - defend the Constitution and the Republic from what has already been construed by some as treason. The treason narrative will only gain traction and its not without merit.
Deriding Donny and the Deplorables is taking aim at the wrong target - the target should be all those responsible for the kack-handed, sloppy and juvenile way the Democrats tried to swing this thing in favour of their "witness-protection' candidate. Very very poorly done, but understandable given the miscalculation of Trump support made from the outset, probably during the planning phases. Just poor. Sloppy, panicked and very badly executed.
The Deplorables are loving this, and they will not back down or fold their tents and go away until they are convinced that the election was fair. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is that simple. You want this to end? Convince them the election was not rigged. To do that you will have to hear them out, hear their lawsuits and decide thereon according to law. Declaring their suits as frivolous does nothing to strengthen your case and only add to their resolve. If they lost fair and square they will accept it. Very few of these cases are launched by the Trump campaign, btw. I believe they are 0/3 or thereabouts. The cases are being filed by a multitude of other groups and citizens etc. Every time a judge chucks out a suit without giving it a proper hearing fuels The Deplorables fires, and confirms to them that not only something very fishy happened, but that in the end they will win, because every step gets them closer to the Supreme Court. Everything you and your media channels say strengthens them. They are loving all of this. They are in their element. They are defending their Republic! I am amazed you won't see that 70-odd million MAGA-types, convinced that treason has been committed, won't be a laughable matter worthy of derision.
Fact checking stuff via Facebook-funded fact checkers and so on, trying to destroy arguments on the basis of character assassinations might confirm your own biases that Trump and the MAGA movement are a joke and sore losers and dumb and uneducated and crooked and all of that, yes; and you can carry on doing that, sure. But if you think an argument is baseless because of who brings it doesn't help you. Because the arguments do not seem baseless. Your overwhelming desire to see Trump and the MAGA movement gone does not set you up to comfortably deal with what looks likely to be coming.
You are probably going to lose this when it's all over and done with. Start to think about it.
Interesting days indeed.....
This â well, really pretty much all of this post and your subsequent one â is ass-backwards. This presumes that proof of election fraud or a rigged election has been sufficiently established and the burden of proof has shifted to those who believe Biden won the election to prove that Bidenâs election was not procured by fraud or otherwise via a rigged election. And proving this negative must be accomplished to the satisfaction of those who already have concluded that there was massive fraud orchestrated by the Democratic across several states â which, I am sure, we can agree will never happen, especially because Trump himself will never concede that he lost the election.
This is not our system. Election challenges can be brought in court. In a court of law, unlike the court of public opinion in which Trump and his lawyers prefer to play, the challenger must carry its burden of proof. It is not sufficient to throw out myriad allegations and argue that the result of an election should be overturned because it is possible that fraud might have occurred.
There is a reason why courts have been summarily dismissing these cases, issuing scathing opinions that the challenges seeking to disenfranchise hordes of voters and overturn the result of a presidential election are woefully unsupported by law and fact. That should speak for itself. Unfortunately, the ardent Trump supporters, egged on by Trump, are proving they do not believe in our system of law.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, ....
It's clear, Trump lost fair and square.
Then convince him and the MAGA movement of that?
If it was won fair and square it should be easy to convince anyone, though I do get your argument of flat earthers and Holocaust deniers - not easy convincing them of anything other than what they want to believe. The same with MMGW and this virus thing etc etc.
But seriously - explain why 100 votes for each candidate fed into a machine results in an imbalanced output? If it's fair and square then there must be a logical, simple and easily explained reason for that. Explain how it can be that dead people voted in their thousands? Explain how 1.8million mail-in ballots were sent out and 2.something million were returned? Why can 40-odd thousand people vote twice in one place? If its all nonsense and easily explained then will someone explain it please? All of it, and again, not by referring to a Facebook funded fact checking website. Simply saying there is no evidence is incorrect, it appears there really is a lot. Simply saying the claims are baseless because someone who can make up anything they want without consequence (say Facebook fact checkers or CNN) does not outweigh the sworn testimony of hundreds of people who submitted that sworn testimony under penalty of perjury. I find it hard to believe that all those people, ordinary Americans, would simply make up stories and lie to that extent and in those numbers.
It is really not that clear that he lost fair and square. Yes I would have voted for him and in 2016, and I definitely don't think he is as bad as everyone here says he is, but It's not my circus in the end, yet I am not convinced he lost or that the election was fair and square to the point that it drives me to write here.
Why is the standard fallback position to these claims, 'He lost, he's a sore loser ( nobody likes losing ), his followers are stupid and uneducated, and let that be the end of that'? It doesn't change anyone's mind, only reinforces their viewpoint, and strengthens their position and resolve to hold that position whilst time proves them right.
And I think it will.
Anyway - good chat. I have to go get some copper on those tomatoes now.
I don't "know" the facts, e.g., i didnt count votes, or monitor polls and mail in ballots...but I'm guessing the courts, including SCOTUS, who reviewed the cases, the evidence....not to mention each state (Dem and GOP) who did their own monitoring, counting...do know the facts. And they have all unequivocally said trump lost.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, ....
It's clear, Trump lost fair and square.
Then convince him and the MAGA movement of that?
... If its all nonsense and easily explained then will someone explain it please?
Simply saying there is no evidence is incorrect, it appears there really is a lot.
The sworn testimony of hundreds of people who submitted that sworn testimony under penalty of perjury.
I can swear in court a lot of things. I heard Jiggz molests barnyard animals. I matched Jiggz responses verbatim from a facebook post. I saw Jiggz take every Biden vote and run it through the voting machine twice. Prosecuting me for perjury on any of those has to prove intent and a knowing statement of falsehood. It's a very difficult thing to prove.
Accepting that I signed and affidavit that all of those things are true, doesn't make them accurate. The only way to prove them is with facts. I'm sorry, but evidence matters.
I'm not going to waste time with details, but to date, there has been NO evidence. ZERO. NONE.
Georgia has been counted 3 times. The numbers aren't changing. If there was any issues with re-counting, machine overrides, etc....it would be in the supplemental math. It's not.
This isn't a conversation, it's a constant effort to apply facts against a story (circulated by the POTUS) that has no support. You, and the notion of "how do you explain", are part of the problem. Stop accepting propaganda as something that has to be disproven, and prove something nefarious. You can't. It's over.
Trump doesn't want or need to be convinced....he's busy collecting as much money as he can from the idiots who believe his stories. His new PAC had $207M as of Monday. It's all a con, and you're merely helping to give the Grifter in Chief support.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, ....
It's clear, Trump lost fair and square.
Then convince him and the MAGA movement of that?
If it was won fair and square it should be easy to convince anyone, though I do get your argument of flat earthers and Holocaust deniers - not easy convincing them of anything other than what they want to believe. The same with MMGW and this virus thing etc etc.
But seriously - explain why 100 votes for each candidate fed into a machine results in an imbalanced output? If it's fair and square then there must be a logical, simple and easily explained reason for that. Explain how it can be that dead people voted in their thousands? Explain how 1.8million mail-in ballots were sent out and 2.something million were returned? Why can 40-odd thousand people vote twice in one place? If its all nonsense and easily explained then will someone explain it please? All of it, and again, not by referring to a Facebook funded fact checking website. Simply saying there is no evidence is incorrect, it appears there really is a lot. Simply saying the claims are baseless because someone who can make up anything they want without consequence (say Facebook fact checkers or CNN) does not outweigh the sworn testimony of hundreds of people who submitted that sworn testimony under penalty of perjury. I find it hard to believe that all those people, ordinary Americans, would simply make up stories and lie to that extent and in those numbers.
It is really not that clear that he lost fair and square. Yes I would have voted for him and in 2016, and I definitely don't think he is as bad as everyone here says he is, but It's not my circus in the end, yet I am not convinced he lost or that the election was fair and square to the point that it drives me to write here.
Why is the standard fallback position to these claims, 'He lost, he's a sore loser ( nobody likes losing ), his followers are stupid and uneducated, and let that be the end of that'? It doesn't change anyone's mind, only reinforces their viewpoint, and strengthens their position and resolve to hold that position whilst time proves them right.
And I think it will.
Anyway - good chat. I have to go get some copper on those tomatoes now.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, ....
It's clear, Trump lost fair and square.
The lawsuit you reference is foolish. It's basically like saying all goals in the soccer match will count, but now that we know they scored 3 times with their head and we lost 3-1, we think only goals scored with your right foot should count. We win!
The earth is flat, the Holocaust didn't happen ... people believe a lot of things that ignore facts. You can put Trump's stolen election on the pile.
There is a âwhopperâ filed today in Supreme Court by Texas AG Ken Paxton: Texas suing Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia.
Edit: and just breaking: Supreme Court rejects petition of Rep. Mike Kelly seeking invalidation of mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania. Order rejecting the petition for emergency relief was issued with no dissents.
Interesting - I see that the very astute cleverness behind this 'whopper' is that there is no need to prove any kind of fraud. All that has to be proven is that they changed election laws by executive order and not by legislation as required by Article II, Section 1 Clause 2 of the US Constitution. Which they did. I've also seen several reports that say four other states have already joined Texas and more are likely to join suit. One report on a Chinese website says the total is now 10...but I don't believe it. We will see how many jump on the bandwagon but I'd venture that we could expect to see maybe 7 or 8.
This 'whopper' goes directly to the Supreme Court of the USA - and I have seen that the Supreme Court have added it to their docket but again not from a credible source. So it looks like it's probably game on. Not just a single 'whopper', but burgers, fries and drinks for the whole family. Enjoy...... *burp*....
Also - no '6 more days tick tock' The safe harbour of 8 Dec etc...all of that, those dates..14th Dec etc....none of that is in your Constitution. The only date that is set out in your Constitution is Inauguration Day - 12 noon EST 20 January, in accordance with your 20th Amendment.
If Trump doesn't clearly, fairly and squarely win or lose this thing by that date, you might expect to see Martial Law, fresh elections overseen by the military, the Insurrection Act being invoked etc etc, not because he is a tyrannical dictator, but because it's actually his job to do that - defend the Constitution and the Republic from what has already been construed by some as treason. The treason narrative will only gain traction and its not without merit.
Deriding Donny and the Deplorables is taking aim at the wrong target - the target should be all those responsible for the kack-handed, sloppy and juvenile way the Democrats tried to swing this thing in favour of their "witness-protection' candidate. Very very poorly done, but understandable given the miscalculation of Trump support made from the outset, probably during the planning phases. Just poor. Sloppy, panicked and very badly executed.
The Deplorables are loving this, and they will not back down or fold their tents and go away until they are convinced that the election was fair. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is that simple. You want this to end? Convince them the election was not rigged. To do that you will have to hear them out, hear their lawsuits and decide thereon according to law. Declaring their suits as frivolous does nothing to strengthen your case and only add to their resolve. If they lost fair and square they will accept it. Very few of these cases are launched by the Trump campaign, btw. I believe they are 0/3 or thereabouts. The cases are being filed by a multitude of other groups and citizens etc. Every time a judge chucks out a suit without giving it a proper hearing fuels The Deplorables fires, and confirms to them that not only something very fishy happened, but that in the end they will win, because every step gets them closer to the Supreme Court. Everything you and your media channels say strengthens them. They are loving all of this. They are in their element. They are defending their Republic! I am amazed you won't see that 70-odd million MAGA-types, convinced that treason has been committed, won't be a laughable matter worthy of derision.
Fact checking stuff via Facebook-funded fact checkers and so on, trying to destroy arguments on the basis of character assassinations might confirm your own biases that Trump and the MAGA movement are a joke and sore losers and dumb and uneducated and crooked and all of that, yes; and you can carry on doing that, sure. But if you think an argument is baseless because of who brings it doesn't help you. Because the arguments do not seem baseless. Your overwhelming desire to see Trump and the MAGA movement gone does not set you up to comfortably deal with what looks likely to be coming.
You are probably going to lose this when it's all over and done with. Start to think about it.
"Those supporters have started to flood the voice mails, cellphones and inboxes of dozens of elected officials across the country with angry messages and threats, as well as countless officials who handle local elections. The tenor has seemed to grow more menacing as Mr. Trumpâs efforts appear even more unlikely to succeed, some officials said."