[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Trump - kurtster - Jan 16, 2021 - 2:35pm
 
COVID-19 - Red_Dragon - Jan 16, 2021 - 1:13pm
 
Language - rhahl - Jan 16, 2021 - 1:03pm
 
Social Media Are Changing Everything - Ohmsen - Jan 16, 2021 - 12:10pm
 
Trump Lies - ScottN - Jan 16, 2021 - 12:05pm
 
Outstanding Covers - R_P - Jan 16, 2021 - 11:48am
 
The Obituary Page - ScottN - Jan 16, 2021 - 8:47am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - islander - Jan 16, 2021 - 7:26am
 
Breaking News - KarmaKarma - Jan 16, 2021 - 7:13am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 16, 2021 - 6:27am
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - miamizsun - Jan 16, 2021 - 5:54am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jan 16, 2021 - 5:43am
 
Vocabulary Quiz - rhahl - Jan 16, 2021 - 5:31am
 
Flim Festivals on Now - rhahl - Jan 16, 2021 - 3:59am
 
2020 Elections - haresfur - Jan 15, 2021 - 8:44pm
 
Baby words that stuck in your family - Manbird - Jan 15, 2021 - 8:06pm
 
Things You Thought Today - Isabeau - Jan 15, 2021 - 2:30pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Jan 15, 2021 - 2:29pm
 
Our tolerance for opposing views - Isabeau - Jan 15, 2021 - 2:14pm
 
What is the meaning of this? - Isabeau - Jan 15, 2021 - 2:00pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Jan 15, 2021 - 12:47pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - oldviolin - Jan 15, 2021 - 10:20am
 
What the hell OV? - miamizsun - Jan 15, 2021 - 9:51am
 
Physics questions - oldviolin - Jan 15, 2021 - 8:56am
 
Classical Music - rhahl - Jan 15, 2021 - 6:48am
 
Capitalism and Consumerism... now what? - miamizsun - Jan 15, 2021 - 6:10am
 
RightWingNutZ - Red_Dragon - Jan 15, 2021 - 5:55am
 
Back to the 10's - rhahl - Jan 15, 2021 - 5:37am
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - Proclivities - Jan 15, 2021 - 4:58am
 
Twitter's finest moment - Jiggz - Jan 15, 2021 - 1:28am
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - oldviolin - Jan 14, 2021 - 8:14pm
 
What The Hell Buddy? - oldviolin - Jan 14, 2021 - 8:09pm
 
In My Room - oldviolin - Jan 14, 2021 - 7:58pm
 
Looting & vandalism isn't protest - R_P - Jan 14, 2021 - 5:25pm
 
Insane-looking Lawyers - rhahl - Jan 14, 2021 - 4:14pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 14, 2021 - 2:54pm
 
Joe Biden - black321 - Jan 14, 2021 - 2:07pm
 
Race in America - sirdroseph - Jan 14, 2021 - 12:32pm
 
New Music - R_P - Jan 14, 2021 - 12:11pm
 
hallucinogenic drugs - sirdroseph - Jan 14, 2021 - 11:09am
 
Back to the 90's - rgio - Jan 14, 2021 - 7:47am
 
Concept Albums - oldviolin - Jan 14, 2021 - 7:34am
 
Democratic Party - kurtster - Jan 14, 2021 - 6:17am
 
Capital Punishment - R_P - Jan 13, 2021 - 8:54pm
 
Biden Crime Family - westslope - Jan 13, 2021 - 6:59pm
 
2 questions. - miamizsun - Jan 13, 2021 - 5:30pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - haresfur - Jan 13, 2021 - 5:12pm
 
Impeachment Time: - R_P - Jan 13, 2021 - 2:49pm
 
Back to the 60's - kcar - Jan 13, 2021 - 2:45pm
 
Oh, The Stupidity - R_P - Jan 13, 2021 - 2:16pm
 
Know your memes - black321 - Jan 13, 2021 - 12:02pm
 
Republican Party - miamizsun - Jan 13, 2021 - 10:53am
 
The Global War on Terror - westslope - Jan 13, 2021 - 9:36am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jan 13, 2021 - 8:11am
 
Great guitar faces - yuel - Jan 13, 2021 - 6:37am
 
DQ (as in 'Daily Quote') - miamizsun - Jan 13, 2021 - 4:41am
 
• • • Poopoo • • • - miamizsun - Jan 13, 2021 - 4:15am
 
Those Lovable Policemen - haresfur - Jan 12, 2021 - 5:26pm
 
The death penalty on trial? - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 4:41pm
 
Live Music - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 3:39pm
 
Military Matters - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 2:00pm
 
Dear Retail Fashion Industry - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 1:30pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Jan 12, 2021 - 10:30am
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Jan 12, 2021 - 10:22am
 
Net Neutrality - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:55am
 
FOUR WORDS - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:43am
 
TWO WORDS - oldviolin - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:40am
 
ONE WORD - oldviolin - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:38am
 
THREE WORDS - oldviolin - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:38am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:18am
 
The Dragons' Roost - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 9:07am
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - GeneP59 - Jan 12, 2021 - 8:31am
 
Crazy conspiracy theories - Ohmsen - Jan 12, 2021 - 7:20am
 
Philosophy, anyone? - miamizsun - Jan 12, 2021 - 4:30am
 
What you need to know - No Jokes - rhahl - Jan 12, 2021 - 3:47am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Trump Lies Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 28, 29, 30  Next
Post to this Topic
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 3:48pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Oy, again with the point-missing.

 kurtster wrote:
So only one side gets to use whataboutism ?

1. There are more than two sides.
2. No, whataboutism is an illegitimate tactic no matter who uses it—at least if it is used to justify bad behavior. As a critique of hypocrisy it's fair game, but that's a meta-criticism, not a justification.

So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.

Not talking about defending any particular lie, I'm talking about defending the tactic of lying. Of legitimizing the act of lying as a tool of statecraft.

You claim not to have defended Trump's lies and I'm not going to sift thru all your posts to call you on that. You are, however, defending his dishonesty by literally using the phrase "what about".  That does not justify lying. Previous presidents were wrong to lie. Trump is wrong to lie. Bill Clinton's lies don't excuse Trumps. Barack Obama's lies don't excuse Trump's. Trump's Won't excuse Biden's.
 
No, not actually.  I am only using it on the same playing field already established here.  

The whole point of my original post was calling out what I saw as the perception (mine) or POV presented in this thread that Trump is the only one who is doing the lying.  Simple as that.

I completely agree with you on what follows the bolded.  I know that at least every POTUS in my lifetime has lied and what they are since LBJ.  I'm sure that Eisenhower and JFK told some major ones in their time, but I would have to search for them as I do not recall anything profound as I sit here.  Truman musta', too, but again I would have to go search.  Yes, Truman was POTUS when I was born.  Yes, there are a few others here too who are this old but not many.

Yes, lying is unacceptable in a court of law.  In the court of public opinion, that changes.  That is where we get into the ends justify the means, which I also agree is unacceptable, yet it happens all of time and seems to be getting more accepted as standard practice the longer I live.  Do not condone it and never have, but it happens too much to do much more than say it is what it is.  
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 3:09pm

Oy, again with the point-missing.

 kurtster wrote:
So only one side gets to use whataboutism ?

1. There are more than two sides.
2. No, whataboutism is an illegitimate tactic no matter who uses it—at least if it is used to justify bad behavior. As a critique of hypocrisy it's fair game, but that's a meta-criticism, not a justification.

So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.

Not talking about defending any particular lie, I'm talking about defending the tactic of lying. Of legitimizing the act of lying as a tool of statecraft.

You claim not to have defended Trump's lies and I'm not going to sift thru all your posts to call you on that. You are, however, defending his dishonesty by literally using the phrase "what about".  That does not justify lying. Previous presidents were wrong to lie. Trump is wrong to lie. Bill Clinton's lies don't excuse Trumps. Barack Obama's lies don't excuse Trump's. Trump's Won't excuse Biden's.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 1:17pm

 kurtster wrote:
How about your "freedom fighters" ?

That's a two way street.  Just sayin'
 
Just another dodge.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 1:15pm

 R_P wrote:
To take a page from your book: if you don't condemn it, then you must condone it.
 
How about your "freedom fighters" ?

That's a two way street.  Just sayin'
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 1:12pm

 kurtster wrote:
Go back through this thread and others. I don't recall having defended Trump's lying. Him and his policies to be sure, but not his lying.

To take a page from your book: if you don't condemn it, then you must condone it.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 12:53pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.

You seem to be not just missing the point, but diving into a ditch to avoid it.

When Trump lies—constantly, on every topic imaginable, in every forum available, at every opportunity; when he insists that anyone under his authority back those lies up; when he pretends he has power he doesn't to do things that governments are prohibited from doing—and his supporters excuse this as just a matter of style, they are normalizing this behavior. You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.

Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.

You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.

Unfortunately the rest of us don't, and we get it too..
 

Amen.
 
There are those that try and establish this ridiculous false equivalency whereby (Insert name of Democrat President here) = Trump lies. The sheer number, order of magnitude and harm Trump lies have caused our population, institutions and to the Constitution itself makes it clear where the real danger lies and only fools try to reason otherwise. Those that do have drunk the Koolaide and continue to blindly and ignorantly quaff it down.
 
Whether they admit it or not they are fully on board with the idea of the "The ends justify the means" even though Trump rarely has has a game plan he sticks to. The saying could be better amended to "Trump's whims justify his means".  The puppets at the mercy of the puppeteer.  
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 12:21pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.

You seem to be not just missing the point, but diving into a ditch to avoid it.

When Trump lies—constantly, on every topic imaginable, in every forum available, at every opportunity; when he insists that anyone under his authority back those lies up; when he pretends he has power he doesn't to do things that governments are prohibited from doing—and his supporters excuse this as just a matter of style, they are normalizing this behavior. You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.

Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.

You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.

Unfortunately the rest of us don't, and we get it too..
 
Let's review please ...
.
Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Funny thing about you all who constantly bitch about Trump's lying.  You all make it sound like he is the only one who has ever told a lie while in office.

The previous guy had a bunch of whoppers like " shovel ready projects " and "you can keep your doctor " and "you can keep your plan " even though he passed legislation that made the last two impossible just by the very nature of what the legislation mandated.

You all have replaced him with an even bigger liar.  40 plus years of whoppers all on the record while being an elected federal office holder as well as I believe at least twice caught outright plagiarist.

Can't wait for the Biden Lies thread.

But who cares really? All presidents lie. Whatabout...

Do you understand the implications of the blank check you're writing?
  
The above is the point I was addressing.

You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda. 
  
But before that you bring up whataboutism ...
But who cares really? All presidents lie. Whatabout...
  
So only one side gets to use whataboutism ?  

Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.

You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. 
  
So anyone who defended Clinton's lies and Obama's lies has no legitimacy to call out Trump's lies by this reasoning.

Those here who defend the previous liars by saying that Trump has told more lies than them are simply engaging in whataboutism, plain and simple.

Go back through this thread and others.  I don't recall having defended Trump's lying.  Him and his policies to be sure, but not his lying. 

So here's a dose of whataboutism, and I'm calling it that myself.

What about all of the lies told about Trump ?  By the media and the democrats and the never Trumper's ?  They are okay by you ?  Or were there no lies told by these parties ?

No one here save a very few believes these parties have fabricated anything about Trump, starting with the Russian collusion.  

So all of those here who are presently complaining about Trump's lies have no standing to defend Biden by excusing them by saying Trump lied, too ?  How is that going to work exactly ?  
Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.

You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.

 
Hmmm.

The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  



You take my statement of the acceptance of my situation as surrender.  Acceptance ≠ surrender.

It is a statement about a changing tactic, not surrender.  Perhaps what followed going into thoughts about civil liberties did not come off as intended.  But then again, I'm still trying to figure out how to update my profile.  Do I add that I am a murderer or will simply a killer do ?  I thought that was a pretty hyperbolic accusation, but evidently not ...

.
Why don't we try figuring out who is not lying ?  That would be much simpler, eh ?  I believe that was kinda the point I made in my initial remark that you replied to.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 11:57am



 kurtster wrote:

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  
 

Quarantines for public health reasons were not uncommon in US colonial times and beyond. 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 11:04am



 kurtster wrote:
Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  
 

So they took away the guns? Whew. Well done, Mr. President.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 10:15am

kurtster wrote:
Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.

You seem to be not just missing the point, but diving into a ditch to avoid it.

When Trump lies—constantly, on every topic imaginable, in every forum available, at every opportunity; when he insists that anyone under his authority back those lies up; when he pretends he has power he doesn't to do things that governments are prohibited from doing—and his supporters excuse this as just a matter of style, they are normalizing this behavior. You all have ceded any moral authority to complain about any future president doing exactly the same thing for their agenda.

Joe Biden lies? So what? Your own defense of Trump will be trotted out to defend him. That's just his style, and your tears of impotent outrage are delicious.

You don't get to hold your political opponents to a higher standard of honesty you hold your allies, or your self. These last four years have seen an entire political movement burn its last few shreds of credibility in a desperate attempt to cling to power. It exiled the few voices inside its camp that dared hold to principle as traitors. You deserve what you'll get for this.

Unfortunately the rest of us don't, and we get it too..
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 10:03am

 VV wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

I was specifically addressing Lazy8 on this.  He addressed something I wrote in here over a month ago.  It means something to him as a libertarian, I believe.  That is all that matters to me.

No deflection.  Neither you nor buddy are libertarians let alone even approve of them.  Nothing for either of you two to worry about.
 
Very obtuse.
 
Also not sure how you lumped me in with not approving of Libertarians. Just because I don't pay much attention to them doesn't mean I approve or don't approve of them. If you  equate apathy with non-approval then so be it.

 
Most people here do not approve of libertarians.  Just made an assumption based upon past interactions.    If that is not the case, then my apologies.  

Still the remark was made directly to Lazy8 and no one else.  Feel free to do as you wish, as always.  I don't have anything further to say on this unless L wishes to answer back, but this would not be the thread for that anyway.

Peace, out.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 9:04am

My assumption would be that lying does more to subvert liberty than to promote it.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 9:02am



 kurtster wrote:

I was specifically addressing Lazy8 on this.  He addressed something I wrote in here over a month ago.  It means something to him as a libertarian, I believe.  That is all that matters to me.

No deflection.  Neither you nor buddy are libertarians let alone even approve of them.  Nothing for either of you two to worry about.
 
Very obtuse.
 
Also not sure how you lumped me in with not approving of Libertarians. Just because I don't pay much attention to them doesn't mean I approve or don't approve of them. If you  equate apathy with non-approval then so be it.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 8:45am

 VV wrote:
How did the narrative shift from lying to civil liberties? You might want to stay on topic at least once in awhile there K.
 
I was specifically addressing Lazy8 on this.  He addressed something I wrote in here over a month ago.  It means something to him as a libertarian, I believe.  That is all that matters to me.

No deflection.  Neither you nor buddy are libertarians let alone even approve of them.  Nothing for either of you two to worry about.
buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Self DD
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 5:29am



 VV wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.
 

How did the narrative shift from lying to civil liberties? You might want to stay on topic at least once in awhile there K.
 

It’s called deflection, VV.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 5:01am



 kurtster wrote:

Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.
 

How did the narrative shift from lying to civil liberties? You might want to stay on topic at least once in awhile there K.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 4:40am

 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Funny thing about you all who constantly bitch about Trump's lying.  You all make it sound like he is the only one who has ever told a lie while in office.

The previous guy had a bunch of whoppers like " shovel ready projects " and "you can keep your doctor " and "you can keep your plan " even though he passed legislation that made the last two impossible just by the very nature of what the legislation mandated.

You all have replaced him with an even bigger liar.  40 plus years of whoppers all on the record while being an elected federal office holder as well as I believe at least twice caught outright plagiarist.

Can't wait for the Biden Lies thread.

But who cares really? All presidents lie. Whatabout...

Do you understand the implications of the blank check you're writing?
 
Just saw this as I haven't been in here since.

I could write a page or three for an answer, but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter anymore.

The die is cast.  Nearly all of our remaining civil liberties have been usurped in the name of Covid 19.  Everyone is rolling over and playing dead.  Resistance is futile and those who do will be brutally canceled.  The fight belongs to you now, the younger who still have a clue.  At my age, pfffffttttt, it's over.  

But we have different views that clash.  I am not a globalist.  I see the loss of our civil liberties as inevitable with the increase of globalism.  You seem to remain optimistic that will not happen.  I hope that you are right.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 4:02am

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 29, 2020 - 4:00am

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 28, 2020 - 7:12pm

26,548
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 28, 29, 30  Next