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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 323, 324, 325 ... 395, 396, 397  Next
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steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Apr 22, 2020 - 7:35am



 black321 wrote:
Re. Trump and Plaquenil...its not whether the drug works or not, but that a president  ought not to be using his soap box to suggest treatments, especially those that are unproven.
 

Bingo. 

As Fauci said early on and has continued to say, the evidence regarding the efficacy was/is “anecdotal.”
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 22, 2020 - 7:10am



 black321 wrote:
Re. Trump and Plaquenil...its not whether the drug works or not, but that a president  ought not to be using his soap box to suggest treatments, especially those that are unproven.
 
By grasping at straws, he continues to provide his base, who think he's doing so much already, the sense that a miracle is just around the corner.  Since it is...go back to work, go out and buy stuff, hang out at a restaurant.  

If he was honest and told people it is likely to be a year before there is a vaccine or treatment plan for Covid, that might suggest that he has no control over the virus.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 22, 2020 - 7:03am

Re. Trump and Plaquenil...its not whether the drug works or not, but that a president  ought not to be using his soap box to suggest treatments, especially those that are unproven.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 22, 2020 - 7:00am



 R_P wrote:
 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO


No immunity sits on her (right side) spectrum of immunities.
 

Yep. They've looked a little but haven't found it (no evidence), not "no immunity." I took it as a warning that just because there might be some great easy way to test for antibodies soon, they haven't yet established that it will be helpful in fighting future outbreaks. I suppose it will still be helpful in tracking who had it.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 22, 2020 - 12:23am

 Steely_D wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

Here's the research
quoted in that article, and it's a straightforward read if you're used to this sort of stuff. 

ButTL;DR: In this retrospective study of men over 65, there is - at best - no benefit to treatment of COVID-19 with HC or HC+AZ.
There's even a suggestion that HC alone might be harmful, in its increased mortality.

 
It is worth reading. 

I'm very familiar with most of the terms and measurements and blood work in general, from reading my cancer charts.  I have blood draws every two or three months to monitor my hematocrit levels.  I have to get a phlebotomy when it goes above 50.  Funny thing is that with my platelet level averaging around 120 since my chemo, my blood clots up immediately.  I have to take Advil a couple of days in advance to thin out my blood enough so that it does not clot during the phlebotomy and they use one of the largest needles available.  The Advil was my work around and approved by my team when I informed them about it.

But anyway, from the research :

No effective therapy for Covid-19 has yet been identified. Given the longer development, testing, and approval times for novel chemical entities, repurposing drugs already approved for other indications is a promising approach to rapidly identify an effective therapy. Hydroxychloroquine is at the forefront of drug repurposing candidates. Although ongoing randomized, controlled studies are expected to provide more informative evidence about hydroxychloroquine in the coming months, the outcomes observed in our study represent the best available data.

Here's the kicker :

Despite propensity score adjustment for a large number of relevant confounders, we cannot rule out the possibility of selection bias or residual confounding. Our study cohort 
comprised only men whose median age was over 65 years. Therefore, the results may not necessarily reflect outcomes in women or in younger hospitalized populations, nor can they be extrapolated to pediatric patients. Our findings may also be influenced by the demographic composition of patients in our cohort, the majority of whom were black. Disproportionately higher rates of Covid-19-related hospitalization among the black population have also been reported in the United States as a whole.21

 


So from just paying attention to as much as possible out of self defense just because of my risk factor (which has me in the group with 70% of the most deaths) including watching many of the White House briefings I've learned that the highest risk group are black people.  Then it goes to diabetes, heart and lung issues and age and so on.  We have learned several weeks ago about the increased risk to those with cardiac issues and the two forms of the chloroquines.  We have also heard that those with Type O blood fair better than others.  I am O+ so I find some comfort in that.  We don't know that survival means immunity.  There may never be a vaccine.  People will die in the process of learning how to deal with a nasty.  Such is the way with cancers and chemotherapies.  Lymphoma patients are the primary guinea pigs for new chemotherapies.  Just the way it rolls.

Be careful in citing this study as a means to bash Trump.  So this study is largely comprised of the highest risk group of all.  The more we learn, the more we learn.  There is not a one size fits all solution.  So we are learning about contraindications of a particular drug's use.  With the chloroquines we are learning not to use it with patients with known cardiac issues.  Does not mean that others cannot benefit from it, just don't use it on cardiac patients, or black patients.  Too soon to tell about black patients but restraint from use would certainly be a good idea until we learn more.

However as the study cited does say ... Hydroxychloroquine is at the forefront of drug repurposing candidates ...  that means that it is too soon to rule it out as a valid drug for other groups and may indeed yet prove to be extremely beneficial to certain groups.

We need much more research that includes more inclusive demographics and consideration of patient's known preexisting conditions.  In other words, this study is just one of many more to come and to cite it as proof that Trump killed people unnecessarily by promoting this drug just might backfire on those who use it with this purpose.  When faced with a situation as desperate of the one presented by CV 19, no stone should be left unturned.  

FWIW ... one of Trump's better accomplishments to date is The Right To Try Act.  Which means that if you're going to die anyway, then what is the harm of trying something already in the pipeline, yet not approved ?  We do learn from everything and no one's death is in vain in this type of usage.

.
Bottom line ... from all that I have learned to date ... if this bug catches me, more likely than not, it is going to kill me.

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:16pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO


No immunity sits on her (right side) spectrum of immunities.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:00pm



 R_P wrote:

7.'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO

'No evidence' of immunity in recovered patients - WHO

NEWS | 18 APR
 

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 10:48pm



Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

Patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic combination received no benefit in rates of death or in use of a ventilator





An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

More than 27 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine died, and 22 percent of those treated with the combination therapy died, compared with an 11.4 percent death rate in those not treated with the drugs, the study said. The results were from an observational study of outcomes and were not part of a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial, which is the gold standard for testing drugs.

The study was published on the site medrxiv.org, which is a clearinghouse for academic studies on the coronavirus that have not yet been peer-reviewed or published in academic journals.

“An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone,” wrote the authors, who are affiliated with the University of Virginia, the University of South Carolina, and the VA system in Columbia, S.C. “These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.”


...


But the dangers of these drugs to treat certain coronavirus patients is becoming apparent, especially when hydroxychloroquine is used in combination with azithromycin. The small risk of cardiac death for patients on these drugs stems from a well-known side effect: They extend the split-second time required for the heart to recharge between beats, a condition called QT prolongation.

Citing the phenomenon, a panel of the Infectious Diseases Society of America, citing the risks, strongly advised its physician members that the combination of the drugs should be given only in a clinical trial. It cited the lack of clear evidence of any benefit. Its treatment guidelines stated the “overall certainty of evidence was very low.”


...


A team of researchers at New York University’s Langone Medical Center found that, out of 84 patients treated with the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, 11 percent had QT prolongation beyond 500 milliseconds — the proven danger zone for sudden cardiac death. Thirty percent of the patients overall had significant increases in their hearts’ QT intervals.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 10:43pm



CDC director warns second wave of coronavirus is likely to be even more devastating



Even as states move ahead with plans to reopen their economies, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Tuesday that a second wave of the novel coronavirus will be far more dire because it is likely to coincide with the start of flu season.

“There’s a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through,” CDC Director Robert Redfield said in an interview with The Washington Post. “And when I’ve said this to others, they kind of put their head back, they don’t understand what I mean.”

“We’re going to have the flu epidemic and the coronavirus epidemic at the same time,” he said.

Having two simultaneous respiratory outbreaks would put unimaginable strain on the health-care system, he said. The first wave of covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, has already killed more than 42,000 people across the country. It has overwhelmed hospitals and revealed gaping shortages in test kits, ventilators and protective equipment for health-care workers.

In a wide-ranging interview, Redfield said federal and state officials need to use the coming months to prepare for what lies ahead. As stay-at-home orders are lifted, officials need to stress the continued importance of social distancing, he said. They also need to massively scale up their ability to identify the infected through testing and find everyone they interact with through contact tracing. Doing so prevents new cases from becoming larger outbreaks.Asked about protests against stay-at-home orders and calls on states to be “liberated” from restrictions, Redfield said: “It’s not helpful.” The president himself has tweeted encouragements of such protests, urging followers to “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” and “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!”

Redfield said that he, along with other members of the White House coronavirus task force, have emphasized the importance of social distancing “and the enormous impact that it’s had on this outbreak in our nation.”




Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 8:01pm



 Red_Dragon wrote:
 

Here's the research
quoted in that article, and it's a straightforward read if you're used to this sort of stuff. 

But, TL;DR: In this retrospective study of men over 65, there is - at best - no benefit to treatment of COVID-19 with HC or HC+AZ.
There's even a suggestion that HC alone might be harmful, in its increased mortality.

R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 6:30pm


R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 5:24pm

Thousands of Americans backed by rightwing donors gear up for protests
Conservative activists to demand governors lift stay-home orders – and movement has been driven by wealthy conservative groups

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 1:41pm

More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 12:41pm

Man Who Called Ohio's Lockdown Order 'Bullshit' Has Succumbed To COVID-19
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:30am



 lowelltr wrote:
Living!
 
I think we're all aligned with that, but the specifics of how are difficult and require courage and intelligence not supported nationally by a majority, who honestly aren't smart enough see through BS and don't care about each other enough to sacrifice anything.

I don't need lottery tickets for sure, but you do have to get food.  That means you're going to have to get near others at some point.  

The lessons from this experience will take decades to address (if people actually are interested in change).   There are countless examples of stupidity and waste, but this is just a scrimmage for a possible future pandemic that is much more dangerous.  When that happens, nobody will be selling lottery tickets.

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:16am

 steeler wrote:
This is not about individual freedom. It is not about an individual being deprived of his or her freedom to assume the risk for himself or herself. That is because an individual choosing to ignore stay-at-home orders, failing to adhere to social distancing guidelines, and refusing to wear masks or face coverings is not just assuming the risk for himself or herself — he or she also is assuming the risk for others by placing others at risk.
 
I agree with you here, if people had more common sense we would not be in such drastic measures of having to shut everything down.  Even with the slow response, if we had all pulled together on an individual level and done the right thing, we could have made this work much better in spite of our and the world's governments and leaders.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:03am

This is not about individual freedom. It is not about an individual being deprived of his or her freedom to assume the risk for himself or herself. That is because an individual choosing to ignore stay-at-home orders, failing to adhere to social distancing guidelines, and refusing to wear masks or face coverings is not just assuming the risk for himself or herself — he or she also is assuming the risk for others by placing others at risk.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 11:02am

 lowelltr wrote:
When the State  (...)  ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.
 
"WAKE UP PEOPLE — If you think this is all about your health you’re mistaken! Please open your eyes! Stop being lead like blind sheep."
lowelltr

lowelltr Avatar

Location: Cardinal Nation
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 10:58am



 rgio wrote:


 lowelltr wrote:
It’s Not About Your Health

When the State tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge, but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.

When the State shuts down millions of private businesses, but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.

When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous, but allows in-person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.

When the State tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone, or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make-up and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous, but let’s criminals OUT of jail cells for their health, it’s not about your health.

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic, or to get your physical therapy treatments, yet deems a liquor store essential, it’s not about your health.

When the State “lets” you go to the grocery store or hardware store, but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

 
All at some level true (not worth running the list)...So what should we be doing....for our health?
Living!
 


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 21, 2020 - 10:53am



 lowelltr wrote:
It’s Not About Your Health

When the State tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge, but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.

When the State shuts down millions of private businesses, but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.

When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous, but allows in-person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.

When the State tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone, or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make-up and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.

When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous, but let’s criminals OUT of jail cells for their health, it’s not about your health.

When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic, or to get your physical therapy treatments, yet deems a liquor store essential, it’s not about your health.

When the State “lets” you go to the grocery store or hardware store, but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

 
All at some level true (not worth running the list)...So what should we be doing....for our health?

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