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NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 10:47pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
You are certainly right on that last bit. But there is enough in the Peterson interview (which is not the one NY objected to, I know, it just interested me more), when taken in isolation for a whole bunch of people to get their knickers in a twist. For the record, I appreciate a lot of the aspects of Peterson. But there is no escaping his more evangelical* and polemical side, even if he doesn't espouse to any particular religion. * and before you get your knickers in a twist about this one, I mean evangelical in its wider sense, as in sharing his discoveries of how to lead the good life, the "I have the answer" side to him.

It's a pity Peterson has gotten so much of the spotlight and become The Champion of Enlightenment values. There are much deeper thinkers on this topic; I'd put Christopher Hitchens at the top of that list if he were alive, Sam Harris is good but out of his depth too often, and quite a few others you haven't heard of could do a better job. And part of that better job is not spouting off when the topic is something you aren't well-versed in. Peterson, by dint of his high profile, gets asked to pontificate on matters he really doesn't understand and should just answer with a shrug more often. He definitely has a religious perspective; he's been evasive about it but it sounds kind of stoic/Calvinist to me.
 
I know what you mean about Sam Harris, but I would pick him any day of the week over Jordan Peterson. Sam Harris has got a healthy dose of doubt and self-criticism about him whereas Jordan Peterson is so convinced about the skills of his own intellect and rhetorical skills that he charges ahead blindly into any and every argument. I am not surprised he has a huge fan base because with the force of his conviction he peddles a notion of certainty in fields where there simply is no certainty. 

That said, if people feel he has helped them in their lives, I am not going to denigrate that. But it does put him in the same box as many religious leaders. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 3:32pm

Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young Reunite… in Removing Their Music From Spotify
oldviolin

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 1:15pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 black321 wrote:
What, pray tell, does this mean? Why do you think he wouldn't have been a psych professor, based on his religion (I don't believe the man even has a religion, although he does explore the idea of God and the impact on behavior)? I find it quizzical how so many in the media and people on the left in general lump folks like Peterson and Rogan in the right wing nuts camp along with tucker, beck, hannity... I find Peterson's views on the human condition to often be quite insightful. Those who adopt a more moral relativism view of life no doubt have a hard time swallowing his comments...and get the knee jerk right wing nut reaction. And as it seems to apply to you, I wonder how many people/media actually watch the full interviews before jumping to conclusions, or have any reaction at all to these two.  I haven't watched the podcast that got Young's panties in a bunch, but would still bet it's not nearly as offensive or full of "misinformation" as so many seem to believe. 

I would bet money that Neil Young hasn't heard the interviews that got his knickers twisted either. That probably holds true for most of Rogan's critics as well, and Peterson's.
 
Speaks to the comments made in your earlier video link...
rgio

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 1:07pm

 black321 wrote:
I find it quizzical how so many in the media and people on the left in general lump folks like Peterson and Rogan in the right wing nuts camp along with tucker, beck, hannity...

Just to make it really fun, Rogan generally is NOT Right-leaning.  He prides himself on being neutral and historically trends more liberal than conservative.  Regardless of the conspiracy he's selling and the political bias it may support, the bottom line is that most of his information is unreliable.  That's popular.  That earned him a 9-figure contract. 

Apparently, rumors are indeed more interesting than facts.
Lazy8

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 12:52pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
You are certainly right on that last bit. But there is enough in the Peterson interview (which is not the one NY objected to, I know, it just interested me more), when taken in isolation for a whole bunch of people to get their knickers in a twist.

For the record, I appreciate a lot of the aspects of Peterson. But there is no escaping his more evangelical* and polemical side, even if he doesn't espouse to any particular religion.

* and before you get your knickers in a twist about this one, I mean evangelical in its wider sense, as in sharing his discoveries of how to lead the good life, the "I have the answer" side to him.

It's a pity Peterson has gotten so much of the spotlight and become The Champion of Enlightenment values. There are much deeper thinkers on this topic; I'd put Christopher Hitchens at the top of that list if he were alive, Sam Harris is good but out of his depth too often, and quite a few others you haven't heard of could do a better job.

And part of that better job is not spouting off when the topic is something you aren't well-versed in. Peterson, by dint of his high profile, gets asked to pontificate on matters he really doesn't understand and should just answer with a shrug more often.

He definitely has a religious perspective; he's been evasive about it but it sounds kind of stoic/Calvinist to me.


Lazy8

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 12:40pm

 black321 wrote:
What, pray tell, does this mean? Why do you think he wouldn't have been a psych professor, based on his religion (I don't believe the man even has a religion, although he does explore the idea of God and the impact on behavior)?

I find it quizzical how so many in the media and people on the left in general lump folks like Peterson and Rogan in the right wing nuts camp along with tucker, beck, hannity...

I find Peterson's views on the human condition to often be quite insightful. Those who adopt a more moral relativism view of life no doubt have a hard time swallowing his comments...and get the knee jerk right wing nut reaction. And as it seems to apply to you, I wonder how many people/media actually watch the full interviews before jumping to conclusions, or have any reaction at all to these two.  I haven't watched the podcast that got Young's panties in a bunch, but would still bet it's not nearly as offensive or full of "misinformation" as so many seem to believe. 

I would bet money that Neil Young hasn't heard the interviews that got his knickers twisted either.

That probably holds true for most of Rogan's critics as well, and Peterson's.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 11:09am

 black321 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 
Evangelism, etc... 
Sure, but isn't that his job? 
Aren't others the same, e.g.  Dawkins, Pinker, Friedman...
 
Watch the first 10 minutes of the Rogan Peterson interview and imagine Peterson wearing a turban and an aba. Works for me.
black321

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 10:51am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


Evangelism, etc... 
Sure, but isn't that his job? 
Aren't others the same, e.g.  Dawkins, Pinker, Friedman...

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 10:14am

 black321 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

yep, there is a lot of bad energy / aggro going down everywhere. It is like the mood of the crowd is nervous and fidgeting. Not a good vibe generally.  I'm halfway through the Rogan Peterson interview and it is admittedly very entertaining. 
So far it has confirmed my suspicion that Peterson, had he been born in a Muslim country, would likely have become some kind of Mullah.

Now he's just Jordan Peterson, superstar. Almost as good I guess. Gotta play the hand your dealt with.

What, pray tell, does this mean? Why do you think he wouldn't have been a psych professor, based on his religion (I don't believe the man even has a religion, although he does explore the idea of God and the impact on behavior)? I find it quizzical how so many in the media and people on the left in general lump folks like Peterson and Rogan in the right wing nuts camp along with tucker, beck, hannity... I find Peterson's views on the human condition to often be quite insightful. Those who adopt a more moral relativism view of life no doubt have a hard time swallowing his comments...and get the knee jerk right wing nut reaction. And as it seems to apply to you, I wonder how many people/media actually watch the full interviews before jumping to conclusions, or have any reaction at all to these two.  I haven't watched the podcast that got Young's panties in a bunch, but would still bet it's not nearly as offensive or full of "misinformation" as so many seem to believe.  
 
You are certainly right on that last bit. But there is enough in the Peterson interview (which is not the one NY objected to, I know, it just interested me more), when taken in isolation for a whole bunch of people to get their knickers in a twist. 

For the record, I appreciate a lot of the aspects of Peterson. But there is no escaping his more evangelical* and polemical side, even if he doesn't espouse to any particular religion. 

* and before you get your knickers in a twist about this one, I mean evangelical in its wider sense, as in sharing his discoveries of how to lead the good life, the "I have the answer" side to him.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 10:08am

 miamizsun wrote:
so left wing might be more apropos

I bet he's a lovable "centrist."

"Rogan eventually said on election day that he voted for Libertarian Party candidate Jo Jorgensen. His vote for her was not out of line with his previous political endorsements. He endorsed Libertarian icon Ron Paul in the 2012 election and said he voted for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson in 2016."

westslope

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 9:54am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Irshad Manji has been one of my heroes since I heard her talk at our local college. She runs the Moral Courage Project, an effort to get people of diverse views to talk to each other. 

....


A Neo-Viking Constructive Engagement approach to discourse in a USA domestic setting.

Who wouda thunk it?  

Now.  Could somebody please ask President Biden to stop lying and making up things about the Russians?   

black321

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 8:52am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

yep, there is a lot of bad energy / aggro going down everywhere. It is like the mood of the crowd is nervous and fidgeting. Not a good vibe generally. 

I'm halfway through the Rogan Peterson interview and it is admittedly very entertaining. 
So far it has confirmed my suspicion that Peterson, had he been born in a Muslim country, would likely have become some kind of Mullah.

Now he's just Jordan Peterson, superstar. Almost as good I guess. Gotta play the hand your dealt with.

What, pray tell, does this mean? Why do you think he wouldn't have been a psych professor, based on his religion (I don't believe the man even has a religion, although he does explore the idea of God and the impact on behavior)?

I find it quizzical how so many in the media and people on the left in general lump folks like Peterson and Rogan in the right wing nuts camp along with tucker, beck, hannity...

I find Peterson's views on the human condition to often be quite insightful. Those who adopt a more moral relativism view of life no doubt have a hard time swallowing his comments...and get the knee jerk right wing nut reaction. And as it seems to apply to you, I wonder how many people/media actually watch the full interviews before jumping to conclusions, or have any reaction at all to these two.  I haven't watched the podcast that got Young's panties in a bunch, but would still bet it's not nearly as offensive or full of "misinformation" as so many seem to believe.  


miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 8:45am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

yep, there is a lot of bad energy / aggro going down everywhere. It is like the mood of the crowd is nervous and fidgeting. Not a good vibe generally. 

I'm halfway through the Rogan Peterson interview and it is admittedly very entertaining. 
So far it has confirmed my suspicion that Peterson, had he been born in a Muslim country, would likely have become some kind of Mullah.
Now he's just Jordan Peterson, superstar. Almost as good I guess. Gotta play the hand your dealt with.

lol

i have watched some clips of sam harris, lex fridman and elon musk on youtube
but it's been awhile
i just can't fathom tuning into an unscripted, unedited live show for a few hours a day
who has that kind of time? unless it is just running in the background...

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 8:35am

 miamizsun wrote:

got it

we're all (me anyway) more aware to what may be happening in our social/work circles
more or less i'm rubbing elbows with people from all over
obviously there's no shortage of immigrants and refugees here
cuba, haiti, venezuela, from all over the place
they generally don't broadcast why they made the trek (however a few are very vocal)
of course things have come up in conversation

don't know how accurate this is but it's probably close or acceptable

really bad social structure/organization is a biggie
opportunity/better life is another
speech, censorship, coercion, violence and threats of violence are hot buttons

regards

edit: i heard that rogan had landed the uncle fester role in a new adam's family remake, but has since been 86'd (j/k)

 
yep, there is a lot of bad energy / aggro going down everywhere. It is like the mood of the crowd is nervous and fidgeting. Not a good vibe generally. 

I'm halfway through the Rogan Peterson interview and it is admittedly very entertaining. 
So far it has confirmed my suspicion that Peterson, had he been born in a Muslim country, would likely have become some kind of Mullah.
Now he's just Jordan Peterson, superstar. Almost as good I guess. Gotta play the hand your dealt with.
miamizsun

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 8:08am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

oh sorry, I wasn't referring specifically to Shermer or even Rogan, with that. More the irony of calling out those who oppose a proto-fascist movement (which after all, is what I see the Trump movement as being, and by association the anti-vax movement (yes, I'm painting with a very broad brush here)) as being proponents of an autocratic/totalitarian regime.

EDIT or to be a bit more specific, calling out NY, Joni Mitchell and others as proponents of an autocratic/totalitarian state is admittedly, just a wee bit hard to swallow.
 
got it

we're all (me anyway) more aware to what may be happening in our social/work circles
more or less i'm rubbing elbows with people from all over
obviously there's no shortage of immigrants and refugees here
cuba, haiti, venezuela, from all over the place
they generally don't broadcast why they made the trek (however a few are very vocal)
of course things have come up in conversation

don't know how accurate this is but it's probably close or acceptable

really bad social structure/organization is a biggie
opportunity/better life is another
speech, censorship, coercion, violence and threats of violence are hot buttons

regards

edit: i heard that rogan had landed the uncle fester role in a new adam's family remake, but has since been 86'd (j/k)

Lazy8

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 8:08am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Sometimes you leave me scratching my head, as you are preaching to the converted here. Anyone left on these forums here at RP is almost by definition open to hearing stuff they don't like to hear. Dr. Manji btw says nothing at all that is offensive, or hard to swallow, so I am not quite sure what your point is. I don't think the issue is about open discussion, which as far as I can tell, nobody here has a problem with, it is about the dissemination of misinformation. 
When I have the time, I might bother to watch the Jordan Peterson interview to get a better assessment. Crux to that issue will be did Rogan make Peterson squirm like Dr. Manji would have it (as he should have) or did Rogan fawn on him like a sycophantic lapdog? I'm genuinely curious.

Rogan generally lets guests have their say. He isn't there to play gotcha, he's there to let them make their cases, even when it challenges his own views. You can see a snippet of that behavior in the video posted, but listen to his interview with Neil DeGrass Tyson (among many others) for another good example.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 6:34am

 miamizsun wrote:

as i understand it (i'm learning/discovering as i go) rogan was a bernie supporter
looks like the feeling was mutual, and rogan has personally said disparaging things about trump
so left wing might be more apropos
btw, both rogan and young have said some pretty stupid stuff in the past
(if we believe those excavating/dredging the digital repository for one liners and politically incorrect skeletons)
i'm not going to post that here

shermer as far as i can tell is holding out as a professional skeptic
he seems like a fairly principled guy, but in his line of work it's controversy 10x
no stranger to challenges and big debates
i doubt he's on target 100% of the time, but on balance i'd say he has been a benefit to humanity

regards

 
oh sorry, I wasn't referring specifically to Shermer or even Rogan, with that. More the irony of calling out those who oppose a proto-fascist movement (which after all, is what I see the Trump movement as being, and by association the anti-vax movement (yes, I'm painting with a very broad brush here)) as being proponents of an autocratic/totalitarian regime.

EDIT or to be a bit more specific, calling out NY, Joni Mitchell and others as proponents of an autocratic/totalitarian state is admittedly, just a wee bit hard to swallow.
miamizsun

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 4:57am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Irshad Manji has been one of my heroes since I heard her talk at our local college. She runs the Moral Courage Project, an effort to get people of diverse views to talk to each other. Many of you would like her and might especially like her YouTube channel. Most of you will not like what she has to say below...which, if you ask Dr. Manji, is exactly why you should hear it.
 
been a fan for a few years
she's been popular and influential in the human rights/pro-human community
or at least the ones i peruse

the world is a better place with her in it...
miamizsun

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Posted: Feb 2, 2022 - 4:53am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
oh, the irony. By hollowing out all reference to facts in their diatribes, these right-wing nuts are doing precisely what you accuse those objecting to it of.
They are trying to control the narrative by emptying all dialogue of any reference to facts, leaving the only salient point that of tribal adherence. Then, once you have whipped up your fanbase, you march on government and take control by force, because, by God, we have a right to be angry.  

Let's take the politics out of it and approach it like any good librarian and put a massive great FICTION banner on the title. That might solve it. 
 
as i understand it (i'm learning/discovering as i go) rogan was a bernie supporter
looks like the feeling was mutual, and rogan has personally said disparaging things about trump
so left wing might be more apropos
btw, both rogan and young have said some pretty stupid stuff in the past
(if we believe those excavating/dredging the digital repository for one liners and politically incorrect skeletons)
i'm not going to post that here

shermer as far as i can tell is holding out as a professional skeptic
he seems like a fairly principled guy, but in his line of work it's controversy 10x
no stranger to challenges and big debates
i doubt he's on target 100% of the time, but on balance i'd say he has been a benefit to humanity

regards

R_P

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Posted: Feb 1, 2022 - 7:42pm

Rogan interviews the oppressed and the voiceless!
Malone appeared on Joe Rogan’s Spotify podcast shortly after being permanently booted
from Twitter last week for “repeated violations” of their Covid-19 misinformation policy.

(...) Malone has “sowed doubt about the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines on pretty
much any podcast or YouTube channel that will have him” and mentioned
Malone’s appearances on shows hosted by Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon,
and Glenn Beck.
And that pissed off the elites! And some hippie with a guitar.
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