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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 91, 92, 93 ... 107, 108, 109  Next
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GeneP59

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Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2022 - 6:49am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
wow, guess who hasn't moved on from his communist past: In his speech, Putin condemned Ukraine’s decision to move on from its Soviet past, painting the de-facto partition as his punishment. “Modern Ukraine was wholly and fully created by Bolshevik, communist Russia,” he said. “You want decommunisation? That suits us fine. But don’t stop halfway. We’re ready to show Ukraine what real decommunisation means for it.”
 
Once KBG always KGB. You can never leave the family until you die.

Remarkable how a KGB operative can go from a good party member with nothing to becoming a Millionaire.
And the alleged offing of his wife so he doesn’t have any close family to be held over his head.

Its the Napoleonic complex raising it head once again.
I do not trust little man with beady little eyes and itty bitty little thingy.
( Say this with fake Russian accent) {#Roflol}
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2022 - 5:48am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

wow, guess who hasn't moved on from his communist past:

In his speech, Putin condemned Ukraine’s decision to move on from its Soviet past, painting the de-facto partition as his punishment. “Modern Ukraine was wholly and fully created by Bolshevik, communist Russia,” he said. “You want decommunisation? That suits us fine. But don’t stop halfway. We’re ready to show Ukraine what real decommunisation means for it.”



expansionist reunification!
people can call it what they want but it's a predictable violent variant from an egotistic authoritarian tzar-like troll
and we know this by politically sequencing putin's operating system? 
is he trying to put the band back together again?  
wrong any way we slice it
just invasion by another name

History and Etymology for invasion

Middle English invasioun "assault, attack," borrowed from Anglo-French invasion, envasioun, borrowed from Late Latin invāsiōn-, invāsiō "attack, taking possession by violence," from Latin invādere "to enter with hostile intent, assault, attack" + -tiōn-, -tiō, suffix of verbal action — more at INVADE




NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 9:42pm

wow, guess who hasn't moved on from his communist past:

In his speech, Putin condemned Ukraine’s decision to move on from its Soviet past, painting the de-facto partition as his punishment. “Modern Ukraine was wholly and fully created by Bolshevik, communist Russia,” he said. “You want decommunisation? That suits us fine. But don’t stop halfway. We’re ready to show Ukraine what real decommunisation means for it.”
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 9:31pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Well it was already clear that NATO was not going to come to the defense of Ukraine, should Putin invade.

On the other hand, this land grab actually plays into NATO hands, giving it the excuse to bolster its defences and arm the Baltic nations including Poland and give economic support to Ukraine, which is going to need it. I think we can assume Nordstrom2 is now dead. The Ukrainian pipeline is going to be interesting - will Russia will cut it off in retaliation? but that would deprive it of further export revenue.. 


It seems Ukraine is in the unenviable position of being a geopolitical football.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 9:25pm

 steeler wrote:

I do agree he is testing the push-back and calculating. He might stop — for now — with that part of Donbas. If he is allowed to effectively annex those sectors, what does that say about the allies and their support for Ukraine? How much of Ukraine will Putin be allowed to siphon off? First Crimea, then Luhansk and Donetsk. 


Well it was already clear that NATO was not going to come to the defense of Ukraine, should Putin invade.

On the other hand, this land grab actually plays into NATO hands, giving it the excuse to bolster its defences and arm the Baltic nations including Poland and give economic support to Ukraine, which is going to need it. I think we can assume Nordstrom2 is now dead. The Ukrainian pipeline is going to be interesting - will Russia will cut it off in retaliation? but that would deprive it of further export revenue.. 

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 9:16pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


sure, but he's also testing how much push-back he is going to encounter. Both the Crimea and now Luhansk and Donetsk are areas with a Russian ethnic majority. Ukraine itself doesn't have a Russian majority, sees itself as a distinct region with a long history (albeit many family and historical ties to Russia). That is a wholly different prospect.
Not that I am condoning the annexation of the separatist regions. One shouldn't forget the genocide of the Crimean cossacks as being one factor in the ethnic cleansing that led to the current Russian ethnic majority there.

But I think he's going to stop there, at least for the moment. Let the dust settle. Work on getting the sanctions removed over time. Then let's see. I could be badly wrong of course.

I do agree he is testing the push-back and calculating. He might stop — for now — with that part of Donbas. If he is allowed to effectively annex those sectors, what does that say about the allies and their support for Ukraine? How much of Ukraine will Putin be allowed to siphon off? First Crimea, then Luhansk and Donetsk. 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 8:49pm

 steeler wrote:


It seems fairly obvious that Putin wants to regain as much of the former Soviet sphere as he can. He has said as much in explaining his view of Russia’s relationship with Ukraine. 

Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014 sometimes gets lost in these discussions.



sure, but he's also testing how much push-back he is going to encounter. Both the Crimea and now Luhansk and Donetsk are areas with a Russian ethnic majority. Ukraine itself doesn't have a Russian majority, sees itself as a distinct region with a long history (albeit many family and historical ties to Russia). That is a wholly different prospect.
Not that I am condoning the annexation of the separatist regions. One shouldn't forget the genocide of the Crimean cossacks as being one factor in the ethnic cleansing that led to the current Russian ethnic majority there.

But I think he's going to stop there, at least for the moment. Let the dust settle. Work on getting the sanctions removed over time. Then let's see. I could be badly wrong of course.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 8:37pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

um, can we move away from the 1960's diction here?  Structures evolve over time. The relationship between Europe and NATO is definitely a two-way thing, with both the EU and the USA benefitting from the arrangement. The US managed to keep its military hegemony, but Europe could pretend it didn't need to become a military power and concentrate on installing political unification, which has prevented war and allowed unprecedented economic progress. 

To call this US imperialism misses the point. Europe can look back on 75 years of peace and prosperity. Long may it continue, if you ask me. The other pesky fact about the jingoistic use of "US imperialism" is that if it is solely imperialism that the US is pursuing, they are doing it pretty badly, allowing a far greater economic power (China) to arise that is increasingly in a position to threaten its hegemony. 

No, it's not imperialism per se that drives the US. It is an almost naive belief in the power of free markets to bring about democratic revolutions in other countries, as though free markets alone would create replicas of US values all over the world. I guess you could call that cultural imperialism but it is a pretty soft use of the word. Particularly in light of the fact that its not happening as planned.

IMO the US lost its way by hitching the enlightenment values enshrined in its founding documents to purely business interests. With that it lost both its credibility and made some pretty dumb foreign policy decisions, putting money and trade above values.



It seems fairly obvious that Putin wants to regain as much of the former Soviet sphere as he can. He has said as much in explaining his view of Russia’s relationship with Ukraine. 

Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014 sometimes gets lost in these discussions.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 8:18pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


I still think he's concerned about NATO expansion to the East, and why shouldn't he be? NATO was an organization that should have been defunct with the end of The Cold War, instead it has been used to justify the expansion of American Imperialism to Russia's doorstep.

um, can we move away from the 1960's diction here?  Structures evolve over time. The relationship between Europe and NATO is definitely a two-way thing, with both the EU and the USA benefitting from the arrangement. The US managed to keep its military hegemony, but Europe could pretend it didn't need to become a military power and concentrate on installing political unification, which has prevented war and allowed unprecedented economic progress. 

To call this US imperialism misses the point. Europe can look back on 75 years of peace and prosperity. Long may it continue, if you ask me. The other pesky fact about the jingoistic use of "US imperialism" is that if it is solely imperialism that the US is pursuing, they are doing it pretty badly, allowing a far greater economic power (China) to arise that is increasingly in a position to threaten its hegemony. 

No, it's not imperialism per se that drives the US. It is an almost naive belief in the power of free markets to bring about democratic revolutions in other countries, as though free markets alone would create replicas of US values all over the world. I guess you could call that cultural imperialism but it is a pretty soft use of the word. Particularly in light of the fact that its not happening as planned.

IMO the US lost its way by hitching the enlightenment values enshrined in its founding documents to purely business interests. With that it lost both its credibility and made some pretty dumb foreign policy decisions, putting money and trade above values.


PS, as I see it, this last point is one of the major factors in the moral vacuity that has now befallen the US itself and is hollowing it out from within.

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 7:59pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

so that was all he wanted? Almost an anticlimax. All this talk of NATO at his doorstep and putting the sword to Ukraine was just upping the ante.
Still, it is a precedent. Next will probably be the Serb-dominated part of Bosnia. Another can of worms. 

Ukraine will find it hard to accept, but basically, little has changed on the ground. It will only serve to harden the border between Russia and its neighbours (excluding Belarus, for the moment) and drive Ukraine closer to the EU. It'll be interesting to see how damaging the sanctions will be. In the end it will be economic performance that decides the political map of Europe, not arms.



I still think he's concerned about NATO expansion to the East, and why shouldn't he be? NATO was an organization that should have been defunct with the end of The Cold War, instead it has been used to justify the expansion of American Imperialism to Russia's doorstep.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 7:34pm

so that was all he wanted? Almost an anticlimax. All this talk of NATO at his doorstep and putting the sword to Ukraine was just upping the ante.
Still, it is a precedent. Next will probably be the Serb-dominated part of Bosnia. Another can of worms. 

Ukraine will find it hard to accept, but basically, little has changed on the ground. It will only serve to harden the border between Russia and its neighbours (excluding Belarus, for the moment) and drive Ukraine closer to the EU. It'll be interesting to see how damaging the sanctions will be. In the end it will be economic performance that decides the political map of Europe, not arms.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 3:38pm

 Steely_D wrote:


'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'



TECHnically...
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 2:42pm

 Steely_D wrote:


I was a little wondering about why every national power is saying "you better not, or we'll do something after you've rung the bell!" Instead of "here's some sanctions to help you decide what you want to do next."


The question is who's going to make the first move, and how big a move does it have to be to count as a move? Because moves have been made. "No more now, I mean it!"



Anybody want a peanut?
GeneP59

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Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2022 - 1:04pm

Putin pours more gas onto a smoldering fire. Recognizes 2 Ukrainian regions as pro-Russian and signs declaration.
 
Where did I hear this before? {#Think} Hmmmmm
 
Oh yeah. 1939 and Hitlers German reunification of Poland and other countries in the area. Putin is following the same path heading us into WWIII.
Lets nip this in the bud and eliminate the problem once and fore all before it grows any bigger and millions of lives are lost. Cut off the head of the snake but make it look like an accident.
{#Yes}
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2022 - 1:53pm

 Col. Kurtz wrote:
We could (...) block it up for years.  Easy peasy.

The Bosporus Trucker Convoy!

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 20, 2022 - 1:32pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 black321 wrote:
He wants/needs those southern ports, no? 
Otherwise it's all just to confuse the west...so more chaos?
Maybe         
 
what he needs is foreign trade and to bring domestic production up to scratch (see the recent local content legislation).
If he thinks he needs a military port in the Black Sea then he really is still stuck in the mindset of WWII and the cold war. (and I'd like to know how he plans to get his navy through the Bosporus in a hot war).

And if it is just a trading port he's after, well, with Crimea, he already has one. 
 
We could take the whole idea of Black Sea ocean access off the table in one fell swoop.  Simply steam or whatever you kids are calling it these days, an old battleship or aircraft carrier and sail it up to the eastern end of the Straight of The Bosphorus turn it sideways and scuttle it or blow it up or whatever and block it up for years.  Easy peasy.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2022 - 11:22am

 black321 wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

what he needs is foreign trade and to bring domestic production up to scratch (see the recent local content legislation).
If he thinks he needs a military port in the Black Sea then he really is still stuck in the mindset of WWII and the cold war. (and I'd like to know how he plans to get his navy through the Bosporus in a hot war). And if it is just a trading port he's after, well, with Crimea, he already has one. 
Not saying it makes sense.
Does war ever?
 
you're right on that one. And if he thinks he's going to place a burden on the west I bet there are a whole of arms manufacturers who are warmly rubbing their hands in anticipation of higher revenue in the coming years. 
The west's biggest problem is saturated markets, not a lack of production. 
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2022 - 11:09am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

what he needs is foreign trade and to bring domestic production up to scratch (see the recent local content legislation).
If he thinks he needs a military port in the Black Sea then he really is still stuck in the mindset of WWII and the cold war. (and I'd like to know how he plans to get his navy through the Bosporus in a hot war).

And if it is just a trading port he's after, well, with Crimea, he already has one. 


Not saying it makes sense.
Does war ever?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2022 - 10:51am

Latvian prime minister seems to have the best handle on it.
miamizsun

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Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2022 - 10:48am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
ah, the knikken knokken WM-78V. I fondle it remembering as OV wouldn't have said had not said anything.
 
well ov has probably pimped it a time or two

dead simple to operate, just ask bush jr.

and it is a secret alien technology that saved the world
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