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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Trump Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 938, 939, 940 ... 1129, 1130, 1131  Next
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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 4:09pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Well, as you know, it's too long to reply to (RP forums choke on replies to long posts) but it'll get some reads. I, of course, think you're delusional if you're not horrified at even 10% of the last 2 weeks' worth of shenanigans, but when the nukes start to fly, being right on that count will be small comfort to me. 

 
Don't worry about the nukes.  Having grown up during the peak of the Cold War in a town that was a top target and with the Cuban Missile Crisis live, I can assure you that if you simply duck and cover under your desk you will be perfectly fine. 

:cuesupwalztingmatilda:


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 2:06pm

The complete list of all 33 false things Donald Trump has said as president so far
The Star’s running tally of the bald-faced lies, exaggerations and deceptions the president of the United States of America has said, so far.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 1:27pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Well, as you know, it's too long to reply to (RP forums choke on replies to long posts) but it'll get some reads. I, of course, think you're delusional if you're not horrified at even 10% of the last 2 weeks' worth of shenanigans, but when the nukes start to fly, being right on that count will be small comfort to me. 

 
I think his plan is to nuke them over there, so you'll be fine.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 1:09pm

 kurtster wrote:

You're right as usual.  Not even a yawn, although some interest was expressed prior.  That is not a complaint at all, btw.  just an observation.  

I'll leave it up until the morning so noenz can weigh in.  He'll be having lunch when I wake up.  He pushed for it and I promised I would do it.  So I do hope that he at least acknowledges that I did try.  I don't feel that I said anything new, just restated the same old.  I did warn yooz'all that would be the case.  And TLTR.

 
Well, as you know, it's too long to reply to (RP forums choke on replies to long posts) but it'll get some reads. I, of course, think you're delusional if you're not horrified at even 10% of the last 2 weeks' worth of shenanigans, but when the nukes start to fly, being right on that count will be small comfort to me. 
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 1:04pm

 kurtster wrote:

Isn't the truth bad enough ?  

Say what ever you want, just don't make things up and pass them off as true.

Maybe you can explain the picture. 

 
I won't assume for others, but the truth is bad enough for me. 
crisis 
...well, that and vintage comic book panels. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 12:33pm

 aflanigan wrote:

Since when is it the duty of a citizen to act like a self-appointed spin doctor for the POTUS?

Can we criticize him if we first say nice things about him? Is that the rule, now? 

 
Isn't the truth bad enough ?  

Say what ever you want, just don't make things up and pass them off as true.

Maybe you can explain the picture. 
aflanigan

aflanigan Avatar

Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 7:46am

 kurtster wrote:

You will stop at nothing to make Trump look bad.

 
Since when is it the duty of a citizen to act like a self-appointed spin doctor for the POTUS?

Can we criticize him if we first say nice things about him? Is that the rule, now? 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 6:10am

Kellyanne Conway continues to make shit up...
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2017 - 12:30am

Happy days are here again...
The CIA’s New Deputy Director Ran a Black Site for Torture

In May, 2013, the Washington Post’s Greg Miller reported that the head of the CIA’s clandestine service was being shifted out of that position as a result of “a management shake-up” by then-Director John Brennan. As Miller documented, this official – whom the paper did not name because she was a covert agent at the time – was centrally involved in the worst abuses of the CIA’s Bush-era torture regime.

As Miller put it, she was “directly involved in its controversial interrogation program” and had an “extensive role” in torturing detainees. Even more troubling, she “had run a secret prison in Thailand” – part of the CIA’s network of “black sites” – “where two detainees were subjected to waterboarding and other harsh techniques.” The Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on torture also detailed the central role she played in the particularly gruesome torture of detainee Abu Zubaydah.

Beyond all that, she played a vital role in the destruction of interrogation videotapes that showed the torture of detainees both at the black site she ran and other secret agency locations. The concealment of those interrogation tapes, which violated both multiple court orders as well the demands of the 9/11 Commission and the advice of White House lawyers, was condemned as “obstruction” by Commission Chairs Lee Hamilton and Thomas Keane. A special prosecutor and Grand Jury investigated those actions but ultimately chose not to prosecute.

That CIA official’s name whose torture activities the Post described is Gina Haspel. Today, as BuzzFeed’s Jason Leopold noted, CIA Director Mike Pompeo announced that Haspel was selected by Trump to be Deputy Director of the CIA. (...)


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 7:22pm

 steeler wrote:

I said I would get to your stated view of the "establishment." Stay tuned. As soon as someone runs for elected office, he or she is a politician. I assume you are referring to career politicians. For now, see my previous post about when someone crosses over into being a career politician.

 

Most successful politicians aren't in politics for the money. They generally don't have a fear of becoming poor from losing an election of office, they have a fear of losing political power. That fear can make them beholden to special interest groups, polls, big donors, etc. Politicians typically have an agenda that drives their choice of policy interests. They have to work within a community of fellow politicians and changing popular moods. Therefore, they have to moderate their goals or delay pushing them forward in order to build consensus. That may make them look compromised or ineffective but unless the politicians in question are cynical liars never intending to fulfill their campaign promises, they're slogging through the muck of political negotiation, horse-trading and waiting for the right moment to push their agenda.

Trump doesn't have any big political advantage by being independently wealthy. Money is vital to a campaign but it's not the crucial currency once you're in office. To get laws and policy in place in Washington, you need power that comes from alliances with fellow politicians, lobbyists representing political and business interests, and the media. Even a businessman with lots of personal wealth like Trump discovers that you get things done in politics through consensus-building, horse-trading and cooperation. Executive orders can't get everything done. Mitt Romney found out the hard way that he had to make friends with the MA legislature when he was governor.

Trump can try to burn the establishment house down, but the establishment will fight back. His lack of preparation and management skills is already biting him in the butt:

Case Study in Chaos: How Management Experts Grade a Trump White House

So it doesn’t seem premature to ask some leading management experts for an assessment of Mr. Trump’s first weeks, purely from the viewpoint of organizational behavior and management effectiveness, as I did this week.

The unanimous verdict: Thus far, the Trump administration is a textbook case of how not to run a complex organization like the executive branch.

...

Jeffrey Pfeffer, professor of organizational behavior at Stanford and the author of “Power: Why Some People Have It and Others Don’t,” said Mr. Trump’s executive actions as president “are so far from any responsible management approach” that they all but defy analysis.

“Of course, this isn’t new,” he told me. “His campaign also violated every prudent management principle. Everyone including our friends on Wall Street somehow believed that once he was president he’d change. I don’t understand that logic.”

...

There is an enormous amount of literature and data exploring what constitutes effective management of complicated organizations. “The core principles have served many leaders really well,” said Jeffrey T. Polzer, professor of human resource management at Harvard Business School. “It’s really common sense: You want to surround yourself with talented people who have the most expertise, who bring different perspectives to the issue at hand. Then you foster debate and invite different points of view in order to reach a high-quality solution...This doesn’t mean decisions are made by consensus. The person at the top makes the decisions, but based on the facts and expertise necessary to make a good decision.”
 ...

Mr. Trump has already violated several of these core principles. The secretary of Homeland Security, John F. Kelly, was still discussing a proposed executive order restricting immigration when Mr. Trump went ahead and signed it. Nor was Jim Mattis, the defense secretary, consulted; he saw the final order only hours before it went into effect.

 


steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 4:48pm

 kurtster wrote:

A fair rebuttal regarding the potential downside of a businessman in government, but what of the downside of politicians that I outlined in comparison ?  Why are they better suited to or the only ones suited to get the job done ?  You have given politicians a total pass.  We haven't tried a pure businessman in a very, very long time.  My approach is that we don't know until we have tried.  Saying that only politicians are capable is a canard at best as we have tried nothing else.

Mexico is already pretty much out of control btw.  The drug cartels have more control than the government, imo.  So we do nothing to preserve the wonderful status quo in Mexico ?  We have been doing the nothing is better than doing something thing for too long.  Mexico is not going to fix itself and we are hurting ourselves in the process of this do nothing and wait approach.   We have reached the point of fish or cut bait.  Trump is going fishing.  We will find out and be in control in the process.

 
I said I would get to your stated view of the "establishment." Stay tuned. As soon as someone runs for elected office, he or she is a politician. I assume you are referring to career politicians. For now, see my previous post about when someone crosses over into being a career politician.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 4:41pm


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 4:36pm

 steeler wrote:

I disagree with your premise that a straightforward, traditional businessman's approach will produce better results, making a businessman like Trump better suited to be President.  A businessman's approach tends to be transactional, and lends itself more to making a particular deal, often in isolation from other considerations.  The focus, as you say, is to get the project done, and the goal is to make a profit doing so. The only real restraint is to achieve those goals while acting within whatever laws might apply.  So, for example, Trump sees our trade deficit with Mexico to be too vast, and he blames NAFTA for unfairly relegating America to that imbalance. So, he makes it known he is going to negotiate a better deal for America.  We undoubtedly have more negotiating power than Mexico in this situation, and Trump proposes to leverage that power to America's advantage, and, concomitantly, to Mexico’s disadvantage. NAFTA, he believes, may have produced a boon for Mexico, but it is unfair to America.  In sum, we should not be subsidizing Mexico's economy via NAFTA.  What happens, however, if Mexico's economy fails, and Mexico becomes destabilized as a result of our rolling back NAFTA and flexing our economic muscle with regard to Mexico?  What costs would accrue to America in that situation? What incentives and disincentives attach to a particular agreement or transaction that go well beyond the scope of the actual agreement or transaction?  If we sell military equipment to one country, what will that mean in terms of international relations?  It cannot just be judged by whether we delivered high-quality fighter jets on time, as promised, and made a significant monetary profit doing so.    

 

In the formulation and execution of many governmental programs and policies, especially those involving foreign policy, there often are myriad considerations, typically way more than in play in any one business transaction.   And  a businessman does not always choose to complete a project. If it becomes apparent that it is financially better not to complete a project, the businessman drops it and moves on, paying only damages for breach of contract. That is the smart business decision, and that is why breach-of-contract law recognizes this is going to happen. The declaration of bankruptcy is another example. Trump’s businesses have done that several times.  The “intended result” in those situations gives way to the primary goal:  make money.  Contrary to what you say, Trump has not had a history of being judged by results and being held accountable. For example, he denied that Trump University failed, saying it put forth a good product. As far as I know, Trump University is no longer with us.  Nor is Trump Airlines. Nor the casino in Atlantic City;.  Such is the nature of business.  Trump does not have to be responsible for picking up the pieces for those who might have been disadvantaged financially or otherwise when those businesses ultimately failed.  He made his money, and that is how a businessman is judged.  He got out at the right time. That is the extent of his responsibility and accountability. An elected official, especially the President, has infinitely more responsibility and accountability than that of any businessman 

I am going to come back to your comments about the “establishment.”   



 
A fair rebuttal regarding the potential downside of a businessman in government, but what of the downside of politicians that I outlined in comparison ?  Why are they better suited to or the only ones suited to get the job done ?  You have given politicians a total pass.  We haven't tried a pure businessman in a very, very long time.  My approach is that we don't know until we have tried.  Saying that only politicians are capable is a canard at best as we have tried nothing else.

Mexico is already pretty much out of control btw.  The drug cartels have more control than the government, imo.  So we do nothing to preserve the wonderful status quo in Mexico ?  We have been doing the nothing is better than doing something thing for too long.  Mexico is not going to fix itself and we are hurting ourselves in the process of this do nothing and wait approach.   We have reached the point of fish or cut bait.  Trump is going fishing.  We will find out and be in control in the process.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 3:59pm

 R_P wrote: 
Yeah! The we'll take care of that unfinished business in commie Vietnam and invade Australia for talking back to the Trumpster! 

America First! America Alone!


Trump as clown smoking cigarette with caption "You cannot put a crown on a clown and expect him to behave like a king." 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 3:49pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:



 
Just WTF does this have to do with Trump ?  

This picture is from August 2015.  

You will stop at nothing to make Trump look bad.

Isn't the truth good enough for you ?


R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 3:39pm

Steve Bannon: 'We're going to war in the South China Sea ... no doubt'

The United States and China will fight a war within the next 10 years over islands in the South China Sea, and “there’s no doubt about that”. At the same time, the US will be in another “major” war in the Middle East.

Those are the views – nine months ago at least – of one of the most powerful men in Donald Trump’s administration, Steve Bannon, the former head of far-right news website Breitbart who is now chief strategist at the White House.

In the first weeks of Trump’s presidency, Bannon has emerged as a central figure. He was appointed to the “principals committee” of the National Security Council in a highly unusual move and was influential in the recent travel ban on citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries, overruling Department of Homeland Security officials who felt the order did not apply to green card holders.

While many in Trump’s team are outspoken critics of China, in radio shows Bannon hosted for Breitbart he makes plain the two largest threats to America: China and Islam.

“We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years,” he said in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that. They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face – and you understand how important face is – and say it’s an ancient territorial sea.”

China says nearly the entire South China Sea falls within its territory, with half a dozen other countries maintaining partially overlapping claims. China has built a series of artificial islands on reefs and rocks in attempt to bolster its position, complete with military-length airstrips and anti-aircraft weapons.

Bannon’s sentiments and his position in Trump’s inner circle add to fears of a military confrontation with China, after secretary of state Rex Tillerson said that the US would deny China access to the seven artificial islands. Experts warned any blockade would lead to war.

Bannon is clearly wary of China’s growing clout in Asia and beyond, framing the relationship as entirely adversarial, predicting a global culture clash in the coming years.

“You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian west is on the retreat,” Bannon said during a February 2016 radio show.

On the day Trump was inaugurated, China’s military warned that war between the two countries was a real possibility.

“A ‘war within the president’s term’ or ‘war breaking out tonight’ are not just slogans, they are becoming a practical reality,” an official wrote on the website of the People’s Liberation Army.

Aside from conflict between armies, Bannon repeatedly focused on his perception that Christianity around the world is under threat. (...)


steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 3:23pm

 kurtster wrote:

Here ya go.  This is just my opinion and nothing more.  Its only if wishes could be horses, then we would all be riding.  Don't make it into anything more than that.  I still have an open mind on everything.

 

Politician versus Businessman …

The way that this country has been run in my lifetime by professional politicians uses the standard of intentions as the only way they should be judged.  Results are not to be considered, as long as their hearts were in the right place.  Unintended consequences are to overlooked rather than anticipated and no one should be held accountable again, if their intentions were good.

A businessman is judged by results bound within compliance of existing laws and held accountable for their actions including unintended or unanticipated consequences.  Intentions have no place as a justification for poor results or breaking or ignoring laws to achieve a goal.

The two are diametrically opposed.  The former is the establishment thinking and the latter is the thinking that threatens the establishment thinking.  The establishment defends itself by saying the government is too bulky and too unwieldy to hold anyone accountable for poor results and unintended consequences.  Yet government is a business anyway you look at it.

What Trump brings to the table is the skill and approach of a project manager, responsible for coordinating many moving parts and variables to produce the intended result.  He is used to being measured and judged by results and held accountable, unlike career politicians who will remain in office as long as they keep convincing enough people to vote for them with the faulty premise that they are the only ones who can fix the messes they created in the first place.  They also know that if they fix things they will no longer be considered irreplaceable.  So to speak.

As a businessman Trump has had to work with politicians to accomplish his goals.  He knows what works and does not work and why.  He is the bullshitter that you cannot bullshit to use a professional term.  Based on that, I believe he does have the skill set to make things work and get results, in spite of establishment myth and opposition, which comes from both sides equally.

 

 



 

I disagree with your premise that a straightforward, traditional businessman's approach will produce better results, making a businessman like Trump better suited to be President.  A businessman's approach tends to be transactional, and lends itself more to making a particular deal, often in isolation from other considerations.  The focus, as you say, is to get the project done, and the goal is to make a profit doing so. The only real restraint is to achieve those goals while acting within whatever laws might apply.  So, for example, Trump sees our trade deficit with Mexico to be too vast, and he blames NAFTA for unfairly relegating America to that imbalance. So, he makes it known he is going to negotiate a better deal for America.  We undoubtedly have more negotiating power than Mexico in this situation, and Trump proposes to leverage that power to America's advantage, and, concomitantly, to Mexico’s disadvantage. NAFTA, he believes, may have produced a boon for Mexico, but it is unfair to America.  In sum, we should not be subsidizing Mexico's economy via NAFTA.  What happens, however, if Mexico's economy fails, and Mexico becomes destabilized as a result of our rolling back NAFTA and flexing our economic muscle with regard to Mexico?  What costs would accrue to America in that situation? What incentives and disincentives attach to a particular agreement or transaction that go well beyond the scope of the actual agreement or transaction?  If we sell military equipment to one country, what will that mean in terms of international relations?  It cannot just be judged by whether we delivered high-quality fighter jets on time, as promised, and made a significant monetary profit doing so.    

 

In the formulation and execution of many governmental programs and policies, especially those involving foreign policy, there often are myriad considerations, typically way more than in play in any one business transaction.   And  a businessman does not always choose to complete a project. If it becomes apparent that it is financially better not to complete a project, the businessman drops it and moves on, paying only damages for breach of contract. That is the smart business decision, and that is why breach-of-contract law recognizes this is going to happen. The declaration of bankruptcy is another example. Trump’s businesses have done that several times.  The “intended result” in those situations gives way to the primary goal:  make money.  Contrary to what you say, Trump has not had a history of being judged by results and being held accountable. For example, he denied that Trump University failed, saying it put forth a good product. As far as I know, Trump University is no longer with us.  Nor is Trump Airlines. Nor the casino in Atlantic City;.  Such is the nature of business.  Trump does not have to be responsible for picking up the pieces for those who might have been disadvantaged financially or otherwise when those businesses ultimately failed.  He made his money, and that is how a businessman is judged.  He got out at the right time. That is the extent of his responsibility and accountability. An elected official, especially the President, has infinitely more responsibility and accountability than that of any businessman 

I am going to come back to your comments about the “establishment.”   




meower

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Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 2:06pm

 R_P wrote:

 
holy crap... mixing up our Navy vessel with a Saudi vessel.


Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 12:31pm

 R_P wrote: 
Remember The Maine!
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2017 - 12:29pm

Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking U.S. Navy Vessel, an Act of War
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