Mexican president cancels visit to Washington as tensions with Trump administration intensify

also...

The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned

 kurtster wrote: 
Kurtster, you confuse me. You claim that the President does not mean what he says.. "I feel torture works"  (feel????) by producing an alleged draft of the executive order which bans torture in Sec. 98 though it was widely acknowledged that Bush's original allowed torture through the back door and was therefore revoked by Obama - yet you go on to shoot yourself in the foot by linking to a report in which Spicer claims this document is not a White House document and he has no idea where it comes from.. thereby voiding the very evidence you provide to assert the president wants to ban torture..  What???  

edit: oh and btw.. torture is not a partisan issue. A ban on torture is something that should be absolutely fundamental to western democracy no matter what side of the spectrum you are on.

Paul Krugman: The Economic Fallout

11/09/2016  12:42 AM ET

 It really does now look like President Donald J. Trump, and markets are plunging. When might we expect them to recover?

Frankly, I find it hard to care much, even though this is my specialty. The disaster for America and the world has so many aspects that the economic ramifications are way down my list of things to fear.

Still, I guess people want an answer: If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never.

Today, the markets (Dow, S&P and NASDAQ), have just hit all time highs with the Dow topping 20k for the first time ever.

Krugman is such a tool.  Why does any one still listen to him ?

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
In the spirit of your charge against me, I will hold all who elected and re elected Obama personally accountable for the 500,000 deaths in Syria and the mass migration of millions of refugees from same which are a direct result of Obama drawing his famous Red Line and then doing absolutely nothing once it was crossed.  These deaths and the migration can be directly held against Obama and those who elected and supported him (in the spirit of your charge against me and those who voted for Trump) due to his empty words being interpreted correctly that no help was coming as promised giving all the actors free reign to do as they wished.

Now on to Trump and the alleged executive order draft of which you refer to.  Have you read it ?  Here it is for your perusal.  Please note the top of page four which directly states that no torture will be allowed.  And please read this as well which refutes the alleged document and places Trumps remarks into a proper context.

Now what say you ?

 

For some reason I cannot reply to Miamizsun's post...

Of course there are larger issues in the torture debate. Let's keep it simple.
Trump wants to reinstate practices which are illegal, ineffective, and immoral. Torture, in this case, has already been defined.  His statement(s) must be disavowed by all, but especially by those who would be responsible for carrying out an illegal dictate.   Trump continues to manifest his unsuitability to be POTUS.

In his first major TV interview as president, Trump is endlessly obsessed with his popularity Imagine that.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 

edit: first i should have said that i understand your frustration (or i think i do )

americans like every other culture are conditioned/indoctrinated from state controlled schooling at an early age to praise the state regardless

so big statist (democrats and republicans) are held out as the only choice (anything else is widely considered throwing your vote away)

i think this explains obviously horrible political decisions (morality and ethics are redefined to fit state aggression)

so what is torture?

tor·ture

ˈtôrCHər/

noun

noun: torture

1. 1.

   the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.

   synonyms:

   infliction of pain, abuse, ill-treatment, maltreatment, persecution; sadism "acts of torture"

   • great physical or mental suffering or anxiety.

     "the torture I've gone through because of loving you so"

     synonyms:

     torment, agony, suffering, pain, anguish, misery, distress, heartbreak, affliction, scourge, trauma, wretchedness;More hell, purgatory "the torture of losing a loved one"

   • a cause of suffering or anxiety.

     plural noun: tortures

     "dances were absolute torture because I was so small"

verb

verb: torture; 3rd person present: tortures; past tense: tortured; past participle: tortured; gerund or present participle: torturing

1.

inflict severe pain on.

"most of the victims had been brutally tortured"

synonyms:

inflict pain on, ill-treat, abuse, mistreat, maltreat, persecute "they have tortured suspects in order to extract confession

is all of the stuff mentioned in the article torture? you bet

what about drone strikes? most definitely mass torture

all war, aggression and the initiation of force are systemic mass torture

am i being tortured if i'm forced to pay for people to torture others?

according to the definition, yes

so where does it begin? and where does it end?

why can't we tell the state no to violence, especially war/torture?

regards

Donald Trump says torture 'absolutely' works: 'we have to fight fire with fire'

 

This man is seriously unhinged. And Kurtster and all who voted for him, I am holding you personally accountable for any abuse this man commits. It is not as though he didn't give you enough warning signs.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
A padded cell for one would be best. Lock the door, throw away the key —> global jubilation and celebration. 

 kcar wrote: 
I like the wall around them.  Is there anyway of keeping him in there?

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 

There are four people in that diner who would give anything to leave. 

We're all in that diner for the next four years.    

 Red_Dragon wrote: 
George Orwell is giggling from The Beyond at how much Our Leader looks and behaves like a demented squirrel. 

Oh, and George's book is raking it in again:

George Orwell’s ‘1984’ Is Suddenly a Best-Seller

George Orwell’s classic book “1984,” about a dystopian future where critical thought is suppressed under a totalitarian regime, has seen a surge in sales this month, rising to the top of the Amazon best-seller list in the United States and leading its publisher to have tens of thousands of new copies printed.

...

In the novel, the term “newspeak” refers to language in which independent thought, or “unorthodox” political ideas, have been eliminated. “Doublethink” is defined as “reality control.”

...

Dystopian novels are “chiming with people,” Ms. Harrison said, adding that “The Man in The High Castle” by Philip Dick, an alternative history in which the Nazis defeated America to win World War II, is also selling well. A television series based on Mr. Dick’s novel is now in its second season at Amazon. 

I highly recommend the Amazon series "The Man In The High Castle."

Why Trump and his staff lie

which reminded me of the piece on his ghostwriter from last July:

“You’re running for President,” Schwartz said. “I disagree with a lot of what you’re saying.”

“That’s your right, but then you should have just remained silent. I just want to tell you that I think you’re very disloyal. Without me, you wouldn’t be where you are now. I had a lot of choice of who to have write the book, and I chose you, and I was very generous with you. I know that you gave a lot of speeches and lectures using ‘The Art of the Deal.’ I could have sued you, but I didn’t.”

“My business has nothing to do with ‘The Art of the Deal.’ ”

“That’s not what I’ve been told.”

“You’re running for President of the United States. The stakes here are high.”

“Yeah, they are,” he said. “Have a nice life.” Trump hung up.

seriously?

What we should assume is that whenever his lips are moving he's lying. He is a proven liar.

The White House has yet to provide details, but Trump said in back-to-back tweets that the investigation into “VOTER FRAUD” — Trump used all capitals for emphasis — would cover “those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal” and “those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time).”

Trump cabinet nominee Steven Mnuchin is also registered to vote in two states

Hypocrisy, thy name is Trump. 

 islander wrote: 
Too many are blind to Trump's mindset: If you are willing to believe anything he tells you, you deserve to be conned. (Art of the Deal)

or "you knew I was a snake when you took me in"