[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Capitalism and Consumerism... now what? - rgio - Feb 24, 2021 - 9:30am
 
Offline Cache not working anymore - jarro - Feb 24, 2021 - 9:26am
 
Steven Wilson - westslope - Feb 24, 2021 - 9:11am
 
Regarding cats - westslope - Feb 24, 2021 - 9:09am
 
Trump - westslope - Feb 24, 2021 - 9:05am
 
The No Phone Zone - Proclivities - Feb 24, 2021 - 6:56am
 
LeftWingNutZ - islander - Feb 24, 2021 - 6:35am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Feb 24, 2021 - 6:34am
 
Race in America - sirdroseph - Feb 24, 2021 - 5:32am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Feb 24, 2021 - 5:06am
 
Those Lovable Policemen - haresfur - Feb 24, 2021 - 12:55am
 
The All-Things Beatles Forum - kurtster - Feb 23, 2021 - 10:54pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Feb 23, 2021 - 7:14pm
 
American Justice - Red_Dragon - Feb 23, 2021 - 6:49pm
 
Questions. - Red_Dragon - Feb 23, 2021 - 6:32pm
 
Movie Quote - Antigone - Feb 23, 2021 - 3:56pm
 
World Music - deltaindia - Feb 23, 2021 - 1:08pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Feb 23, 2021 - 12:41pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - haresfur - Feb 23, 2021 - 12:34pm
 
Name My Band - rgio - Feb 23, 2021 - 12:26pm
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - sirdroseph - Feb 23, 2021 - 12:18pm
 
Marijuana: Baked News. - JrzyTmata - Feb 23, 2021 - 12:05pm
 
volcano! - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Feb 23, 2021 - 10:58am
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Feb 23, 2021 - 10:50am
 
The Obituary Page - cc_rider - Feb 23, 2021 - 9:52am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - Proclivities - Feb 23, 2021 - 9:36am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Feb 23, 2021 - 8:53am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Feb 23, 2021 - 6:46am
 
Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status - R_P - Feb 22, 2021 - 7:13pm
 
Automotive Lust - kurtster - Feb 22, 2021 - 5:29pm
 
Photos you have taken of yourself - Ohmsen - Feb 22, 2021 - 4:46pm
 
Messages in a bottle. - Ohmsen - Feb 22, 2021 - 4:33pm
 
What did you have for lunch? - Ohmsen - Feb 22, 2021 - 4:03pm
 
2020 Elections - R_P - Feb 22, 2021 - 12:51pm
 
Ted Cruz - ScottFromWyoming - Feb 22, 2021 - 12:47pm
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Feb 22, 2021 - 12:09pm
 
Israel - R_P - Feb 22, 2021 - 11:47am
 
What is the meaning of this? - GeneP59 - Feb 22, 2021 - 9:19am
 
Brave Browser - rgio - Feb 22, 2021 - 8:12am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - Red_Dragon - Feb 22, 2021 - 6:16am
 
How's the weather? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Feb 21, 2021 - 8:55pm
 
Gardeners Corner - whatshisname - Feb 21, 2021 - 7:37pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - Steely_D - Feb 21, 2021 - 12:38pm
 
Kodi Addon - ScottFromWyoming - Feb 21, 2021 - 11:58am
 
Great Old Songs You Rarely Hear Anymore - Zep - Feb 21, 2021 - 11:53am
 
songs that ROCK! - rhahl - Feb 21, 2021 - 10:44am
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - miamizsun - Feb 21, 2021 - 10:16am
 
Madonna's latest - miamizsun - Feb 21, 2021 - 8:15am
 
New Music - Proclivities - Feb 21, 2021 - 6:38am
 
Guns - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2021 - 8:10pm
 
Get the Quote - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2021 - 5:30pm
 
Career Opportunities - GeneP59 - Feb 20, 2021 - 4:05pm
 
Thanks, Grizzly Bear! - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2021 - 1:17pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Feb 20, 2021 - 11:07am
 
Outstanding Covers - sirdroseph - Feb 20, 2021 - 9:28am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - Lazy8 - Feb 20, 2021 - 9:26am
 
Queen - Red_Dragon - Feb 20, 2021 - 6:31am
 
Classical Music - rhahl - Feb 19, 2021 - 6:47am
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - sunybuny - Feb 19, 2021 - 5:58am
 
A Brave Woman - sirdroseph - Feb 19, 2021 - 5:23am
 
Whatever happened to Taco Wagon? - miamizsun - Feb 19, 2021 - 4:45am
 
Immigration - sirdroseph - Feb 19, 2021 - 4:39am
 
Terrorist Watch! - sirdroseph - Feb 19, 2021 - 3:17am
 
Questions I'd like to ask at tonight's debate - sirdroseph - Feb 19, 2021 - 3:12am
 
Republican Party - R_P - Feb 18, 2021 - 8:24pm
 
I play the drums... - KarmaKarma - Feb 18, 2021 - 8:04pm
 
NASA & other news from space - GeneP59 - Feb 18, 2021 - 6:30pm
 
China - Ohmsen - Feb 18, 2021 - 4:17pm
 
Pictures you have taken of your feet. *snort* - Ohmsen - Feb 18, 2021 - 3:39pm
 
What are you listening to now? - Steely_D - Feb 18, 2021 - 2:02pm
 
I am Thinking of: - miamizsun - Feb 18, 2021 - 1:56pm
 
Favorite Scriptures...Leave Pontificating at the Door - oldviolin - Feb 18, 2021 - 1:18pm
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Feb 18, 2021 - 12:51pm
 
how do you feel right now? - GeneP59 - Feb 18, 2021 - 12:03pm
 
Things You Thought Today - black321 - Feb 18, 2021 - 9:46am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Race in America Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 50, 51, 52  Next
Post to this Topic
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 1:37pm


 black321 wrote:
  

i guess i'm confused by this. i've heard the argument, but don't buy it.
also, any student regardless of finances can be fairly well prepped with online videos, whether free or for a nominal fee.
i think there is an argument they aren't effective; many who choke on these types of tests were and go on to be excellent students.
there are downsides to any selection process.
 

There are valid arguments for all sides and there certainly are always downsides to any selection processes.  It almost seems impossible to arrive at a "fair" standard when everyone judged by it is so different on so many levels, but a varying number of people are given that task to varying degrees.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 12:58pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 black321 wrote:


 Proclivities wrote:

I don't disagree with the points you are making about merit, logic and reason.   However, from what I've seen, fewer (not more) colleges than before are requiring or using SAT or ACT as standards for admissions, or using their scores as criteria.
  One of those tests have been required by almost all colleges for at least the last 40 years.  A substantial number of colleges and universities (including the University of California system) have decided to no longer require those tests for admission or to phase out their requirement, and have not just done so because of - or since-the pandemic.

 

I'm wondering why they are using the standardized tests less?
Because they are racist? Because they are not effective? 
I would argue for the latter.
 
The colleges and universities have a number of different reasons, some believe they are biased - either racially, culturally or economically, some believe that the results favor wealthier students who can afford to be coached and prepped.  Some schools think that "blind" tests like those are too vague - useful but not required.

https://calmatters.org/educati...

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/12...
 

i guess i'm confused by this. i've heard the argument, but don't buy it.
also, any student regardless of finances can be fairly well prepped with online videos, whether free or for a nominal fee.
i think there is an argument they aren't effective; many who choke on these types of tests were and go on to be excellent students.
there are downsides to any selection process.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 12:54pm



 black321 wrote:


 Proclivities wrote:

I don't disagree with the points you are making about merit, logic and reason.   However, from what I've seen, fewer (not more) colleges than before are requiring or using SAT or ACT as standards for admissions, or using their scores as criteria.
  One of those tests have been required by almost all colleges for at least the last 40 years.  A substantial number of colleges and universities (including the University of California system) have decided to no longer require those tests for admission or to phase out their requirement, and have not just done so because of - or since-the pandemic.

 

I'm wondering why they are using the standardized tests less?
Because they are racist? Because they are not effective? 
I would argue for the latter.
 
The colleges and universities have a number of different reasons, some believe they are biased - racially, culturally or economically, some believe that the results strongly favor wealthier students who can afford to be coached and prepped.  Some schools think that "blind" tests like those are too vague - useful but should not be required.

https://calmatters.org/educati...

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/12...
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 12:44pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 rgio wrote:


 
You have pivoted from merit to societal measures competence?   If you want to work in a nail salon in NJ, you need a license...objective standards... but merit?

There are a few comments since yours that basically say "it's America, here are our rules".  That's fine, but then own the fact that merit may not be the deciding factor.  Most people who have "achieved" some measure of success feel like they earned it and anyone else could have done the same thing.  That is simply untrue.  It works both ways...for and against...but if you're white in the US you've had an easier path through the "meritocracy".  If you don't think so, you're not applying logic and reason.   There is no need to apologize for exploiting that advantage, but ignoring it, or worse rejecting it, doesn't eliminate it.

We don't need to beat this to death... I'm sure I'm missing something... I was just surprised to see logic and reason used as statements to impune the woman's statement of racism, when in fact bias and racism have provided the facts for logic and reason support her position.

If you truly believe in merit, eliminating the SAT should upset you.  Those making admission decisions at colleges accept that more and more every year.  Why argue with them?
 
I don't disagree with the points you are making about merit, logic and reason.   However, from what I've seen, fewer (not more) colleges than before are requiring or using SAT or ACT as standards for admissions, or using their scores as criteria.
  One of those tests have been required by almost all colleges for at least the last 40 years.  A substantial number of colleges and universities (including the University of California system) have decided to no longer require those tests for admission or to phase out their requirement, and have not just done so because of - or since-the pandemic.

 

I'm wondering why they are using the standardized tests less?
Because they are racist? Because they are not effective? 
I would argue for the latter.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 12:31pm



 rgio wrote:


 
You have pivoted from merit to societal measures competence?   If you want to work in a nail salon in NJ, you need a license...objective standards... but merit?

There are a few comments since yours that basically say "it's America, here are our rules".  That's fine, but then own the fact that merit may not be the deciding factor.  Most people who have "achieved" some measure of success feel like they earned it and anyone else could have done the same thing.  That is simply untrue.  It works both ways...for and against...but if you're white in the US you've had an easier path through the "meritocracy".  If you don't think so, you're not applying logic and reason.   There is no need to apologize for exploiting that advantage, but ignoring it, or worse rejecting it, doesn't eliminate it.

We don't need to beat this to death... I'm sure I'm missing something... I was just surprised to see logic and reason used as statements to impune the woman's statement of racism, when in fact bias and racism have provided the facts for logic and reason support her position.

If you truly believe in merit, eliminating the SAT should upset you.  Those making admission decisions at colleges accept that more and more every year.  Why argue with them?
 
I don't disagree with the points you are making about merit, logic and reason.   However, from what I've seen, fewer (not more) colleges than before are requiring or using SAT or ACT as standards for admissions, or using their scores as criteria.
  One of those tests have been required by almost all colleges for at least the last 40 years.  A substantial number of colleges and universities (including the University of California system) have decided to no longer require those tests for admission or to phase out their requirement, and have not just done so because of - or since-the pandemic.  Some have suspended its requirement because almost no one was able to test last year because of COVID.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 9:24am



 miamizsun wrote:


 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
do you think that merit is racist?
 
By definition, no.  As implemented in "standardized testing", yes.

Ironically, the rejection of logic and reason IS standardized testing...thus my question.

 

occupational licensing is based on a standardized test

when is the last time you chose a service say for your health or home and didn't seek a standard of competence?

licensed and insured?

we're living in a society based on objective standards of competence
 
You have pivoted from merit to societal measures competence?   If you want to work in a nail salon in NJ, you need a license...objective standards... but merit?

There are a few comments since yours that basically say "it's America, here are our rules".  That's fine, but then own the fact that merit may not be the deciding factor.  Most people who have "achieved" some measure of success feel like they earned it and anyone else could have done the same thing.  That is simply untrue.  It works both ways...for and against...but if you're white in the US you've had an easier path through the "meritocracy".  If you don't think so, you're not applying logic and reason.   There is no need to apologize for exploiting that advantage, but ignoring it, or worse rejecting it, doesn't eliminate it.

We don't need to beat this to death... I'm sure I'm missing something... I was just surprised to see logic and reason used as statements to impune the woman's statement of racism, when in fact bias and racism have provided the facts for logic and reason support her position.

If you truly believe in merit, eliminating the SAT should upset you.  Those making admission decisions at colleges accept that more and more every year.  Why argue with them?
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 8:06am



 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


 

 

do you think that merit is racist?

 
By definition, no.  As implemented in "standardized testing", yes.

Ironically, the rejection of logic and reason IS standardized testing...thus my question.


 
That depends on which type of "standardized testing" you are referring to; there are hundreds of different assessments which could be called "standardized"; not all of them are based on rote memorization - relatively few are anymore.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 7:17am

another point...isn't one of the points of standardized testing to weed out bias? 
IQ tests find intelligent people, regardless of background?
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 7:15am



 miamizsun wrote:


 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
do you think that merit is racist?
 
By definition, no.  As implemented in "standardized testing", yes.

Ironically, the rejection of logic and reason IS standardized testing...thus my question.

 

occupational licensing is based on a standardized test

when is the last time you chose a service say for your health or home and didn't seek a standard of competence?

licensed and insured?

we're living in a society based on objective standards of competence
 
Isn't the (false) argument  that standardized student testing is racist, something along the lines of they dont take into consideration cultural differences?
I don't know how this argument might hold for math or logic sections, but perhaps for the reading/writing comprehension? One culture is more used to the queen's english, used by the standardized tests, than the street slang used by others. 
but as far as i can tell, even in the neighborhoods that speak more street slang, they are still taught the queen's english in school?

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 6:58am



 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
do you think that merit is racist?
 
By definition, no.  As implemented in "standardized testing", yes.

Ironically, the rejection of logic and reason IS standardized testing...thus my question.

 

occupational licensing is based on a standardized test

when is the last time you chose a service say for your health or home and didn't seek a standard of competence?

licensed and insured?

we're living in a society based on objective standards of competence
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 6:48am



 miamizsun wrote:


 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
wasn't sure where to put this

the rejection of logic and reason is not good...  
I'm going to pass on the "where to put it advice".


What specifically do you see as the rejection of logic and reason?

 

do you think that merit is racist?

 
By definition, no.  As implemented in "standardized testing", yes.

Ironically, the rejection of logic and reason IS standardized testing...thus my question.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 6:38am



 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
wasn't sure where to put this

the rejection of logic and reason is not good...  
I'm going to pass on the "where to put it advice".


What specifically do you see as the rejection of logic and reason?

 

do you think that merit is racist?
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 6:12am



 miamizsun wrote:
wasn't sure where to put this

the rejection of logic and reason is not good...  


 
I'm going to pass on the "where to put it advice".

What specifically do you see as the rejection of logic and reason?

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 5:57am

wasn't sure where to put this

the rejection of logic and reason is not good...  


sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 3, 2021 - 4:48am

There is a second wave of "wokeness" out there of critical thinkers and intellectuals and just like all other forms of Facism these intellectuals are dangerous to the regime and must be censored or worse.  Listen to them while you still can.......or not.
 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2021 - 9:45am

I love this.  They are explaining why Jimmy Kimmel is the worst human being ever.{#Lol}
 
 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 30, 2021 - 12:08pm

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 11:04am

This should be required for viewing not just for young African-Americans but for everyone.
 
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 7:04am

sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 6:11am

Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 50, 51, 52  Next