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Looting & vandalism isn't protest - Red_Dragon - Oct 29, 2020 - 12:58pm
 
Things You Thought Today - Red_Dragon - Oct 29, 2020 - 12:46pm
 
Media Bias - Lazy8 - Oct 29, 2020 - 12:43pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 29, 2020 - 11:37am
 
Questions. - pigtail - Oct 29, 2020 - 10:49am
 
2020 Elections - ColdMiser - Oct 29, 2020 - 9:35am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Oct 29, 2020 - 9:33am
 
Counting with Pictures - yuel - Oct 29, 2020 - 8:32am
 
Canada - westslope - Oct 29, 2020 - 6:36am
 
Photos you have taken of your walks or hikes. - Antigone - Oct 29, 2020 - 6:05am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Oct 29, 2020 - 5:55am
 
NEED A COMPUTER GEEK! - miamizsun - Oct 29, 2020 - 4:20am
 
COVID-19 - westslope - Oct 28, 2020 - 10:38pm
 
Can't sleep - westslope - Oct 28, 2020 - 10:07pm
 
The Obituary Page - ScottN - Oct 28, 2020 - 9:49pm
 
Add a "Modern mix" - darrio - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:59pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - oldviolin - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:10pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Oct 28, 2020 - 5:02pm
 
Today in History - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2020 - 4:27pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - Lazy8 - Oct 28, 2020 - 3:53pm
 
Supreme Court: Who's Next? - R_P - Oct 28, 2020 - 2:59pm
 
Joe Biden - Ohmsen - Oct 28, 2020 - 2:51pm
 
Trump - Ohmsen - Oct 28, 2020 - 2:45pm
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Oct 28, 2020 - 1:21pm
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Oct 28, 2020 - 8:53am
 
TWO WORDS - rgio - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:57am
 
Baseball, anyone? - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2020 - 4:31am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Oct 27, 2020 - 7:21pm
 
how do you feel right now? - kurtster - Oct 27, 2020 - 6:23pm
 
Outstanding Covers - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 27, 2020 - 4:07pm
 
VTuner drop Radio Paradise’s main mix? - BillG - Oct 27, 2020 - 3:56pm
 
Environment - Ohmsen - Oct 27, 2020 - 2:39pm
 
Recommended documentaries - Ohmsen - Oct 27, 2020 - 2:33pm
 
Republican Party - Steely_D - Oct 27, 2020 - 1:28pm
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 27, 2020 - 11:45am
 
Great guitar faces - GINRUSH - Oct 27, 2020 - 11:27am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - GeneP59 - Oct 27, 2020 - 9:13am
 
david bromberg - Antigone - Oct 27, 2020 - 6:09am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 7:27pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 4:59pm
 
::odd but intriguing:: - miamizsun - Oct 26, 2020 - 4:42pm
 
New Zealand - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 3:09pm
 
Favorite Quotes - westslope - Oct 26, 2020 - 2:04pm
 
Films you're excited about. - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 7:06pm
 
Rock Movies/Documentaries - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 25, 2020 - 6:29pm
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 3:02pm
 
Quick! I need a chicken... - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 2:54pm
 
How's the weather? - haresfur - Oct 25, 2020 - 2:25pm
 
What's that smell? - Antigone - Oct 25, 2020 - 9:49am
 
De onde você ouve a Radio Paradise? Cidade/Local no Brasil - crishtiane - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:33pm
 
RPeeps I miss. - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:51pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 5:01pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - Red_Dragon - Oct 24, 2020 - 3:53pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:22am
 
What The Hell Buddy? - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:17am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:10am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:09am
 
Things that piss me off - miamizsun - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:59am
 
Music Videos - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:50am
 
Ambient Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:41am
 
Live Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:11am
 
The 1960s - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:03am
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:57am
 
Play the Blues - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:56am
 
The Dragon's Roots - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:38am
 
Prog Rockers Anonymous - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 7:40am
 
Democratic Party - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 6:12am
 
Anti-War - Ohmsen - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:39pm
 
Make Scott laugh - kcar - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:31pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:20pm
 
Among Us - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:06pm
 
China - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:27am
 
Health Care Stories - hayduke2 - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:55am
 
Economix - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:33am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - sunybuny - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:26am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 158, 159, 160  Next
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westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 10:38pm



 kcar wrote:


..............

I don't think you can call China "resource constrained" anymore. It is the world's second-largest economy.

..........
 
It is indeed quite remarkable the economic growth that China has accomplished in recent decades.  But on a per capita  basis compared to rich, western countries and places like Singapore, China is still very resource constrained.  

The NYT article you referenced mentions the relatively poor equipment available in hospitals in many regions of China.

The big takeaway from all this is that any pretense at controlling this deadly pandemic is predicated on radical changes in social behaviour that likely come with all kinds of costly consequences.   It is a harsh trade off.  This is a social coordination problem.  Technology, in the medical sense, can only do so much.  It could be years before a vaccine with any kind of meaningful efficacy is developed, if ever.  

Quebec has started to fine people.  Several thousand dollars each. Not sure the fines would survive court challenges but that might be just the beginning.  There is nothing quite like bodies piling higher and higher to concentrate the collective mind.  
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 10:15pm



 westslope wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 kcar wrote:......


"Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation. "


From what I've read, there was little "social cooperation" in the matter. The Chinese government mandated testing of the population and extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus. There was considerable use of force. 
.... 

Social cooperation and enforcement are not mutually exclusive. And first-hand accounts I have read from china did not indicate that they were subjected to force.

 
Draconian enforcement is rarely effective without broad-based popular support.  The measures are indeed draconian but understandable in light of the resource constraints faced by China and the leadership's long-term collective view perhaps less favoured in freedom-loving places like the USA.  

kcar:  your priorities are your priorities, they are not necessarily shared by everybody else.  Your priorities in regards to individual liberties and rights in this context do not define what constitutes effective social cooperation.  

It would be great if we could solve all our social problems through self-enforcing norms and social conventions.  That would be the cost-effective solution.  Alas that does not always work.  
 
Incidentally, to be perfectly clear, I was not describing all Americans but just those Americans who subscribe to President Trump's zero-sum game approach to international and many domestic relationships.  Other Americans are indeed taking the pandemic very, very seriously.  Lots of Americans play incredibly well with each other. It can be fucking inspirational. 

One more thing, as far as I can tell, US domestic security forces are far more violent than Chinese domestic security forces in large part because Chinese citizens tend to cooperate with agents of the state.  Americans kill a lot of Americans. American-style 'freedom' comes at a heavy cost in blood.
 

"kcar: your priorities are your priorities, they are not necessarily shared by everybody else. Your priorities in regards to individual liberties and rights in this context do not define what constitutes effective social cooperation. "

I don't think anyone in any country would willingly cooperate if soldiers or policemen took away their sick loved ones and gave no info about their medical condition/care, whereabouts or even survival. But draconian enforcement works when you can beat, imprison and cow citizens with impunity. 

I don't think you can call China "resource constrained" anymore. It is the world's second-largest economy.

@haresfur: My guess is that many Chinese were willing to cooperate with government restrictions on individuals out of patriotism, concern for the public good and fear of the disease. But the government did use force with less accountability than would tolerated here. 

BTW haresfur: I owe you a PM! Sorry! Will try to respond later today (29th). 

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 9:51pm



 haresfur wrote:


 kcar wrote:......


"Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation. "


From what I've read, there was little "social cooperation" in the matter. The Chinese government mandated testing of the population and extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus. There was considerable use of force. 
.... 

Social cooperation and enforcement are not mutually exclusive. And first-hand accounts I have read from china did not indicate that they were subjected to force.

 
Draconian enforcement is rarely effective without broad-based popular support.  The measures are indeed draconian but understandable in light of the resource constraints faced by China and the leadership's long-term collective view perhaps less favoured in freedom-loving places like the USA.  

kcar:  your priorities are your priorities, they are not necessarily shared by everybody else.  Your priorities in regards to individual liberties and rights in this context do not define what constitutes effective social cooperation.  

It would be great if we could solve all our social problems through self-enforcing norms and social conventions.  That would be the cost-effective solution.  Alas that does not always work.  
 
Incidentally, to be perfectly clear, I was not describing all Americans but just those Americans who subscribe to President Trump's zero-sum game approach to international and many domestic relationships.  Other Americans are indeed taking the pandemic very, very seriously.  Lots of Americans play incredibly well with each other. It can be fucking inspirational. 

One more thing, as far as I can tell, US domestic security forces are far more violent than Chinese domestic security forces in large part because Chinese citizens tend to cooperate with agents of the state.  Americans kill a lot of Americans. American-style 'freedom' comes at a heavy cost in blood.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 9:33pm

 kcar wrote:
 R_P wrote:
 kcar wrote:
...extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus.
 
I believe it's called quarantine, in other places.

 
I read about Chinese soldiers seizing people who tested positive and forcibly separating them from their families. Those families in some cases received no information about their loved ones—were they getting treatment? Were they dead?—and were asking Western reporters for help. 

That's a bit more than "quarantine." 
 
Sounds like ICE, but without the cages.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 9:00pm



 R_P wrote:
 kcar wrote:
...extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus.
 
I believe it's called quarantine, in other places.

 

I read about Chinese soldiers seizing people who tested positive and forcibly separating them from their families. Those families in some cases received no information about their loved ones—were they getting treatment? Were they dead?—and were asking Western reporters for help. 

That's a bit more than "quarantine." 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 3:50pm

 kcar wrote:
...extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus.
 
I believe it's called quarantine, in other places.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 3:37pm



 kcar wrote:


 westslope wrote:


 Ohmsen wrote:
Wanna take a quick look, how China deals with (regional) Covid outbreaks
Starting at midnight on Sunday, four areas in Shufu were identified as high-risk areas for the virus' spread, and risk levels in other townships or villages in Shufu were upgraded to medium, according to the local disease control command center.

Kashgar launched a mass testing program covering its entire 4.75 million population following the detection of a 17-year-old girl in Shufu county who tested positive for the virus on Saturday during a routine check. The girl has shown no symptoms.

As of 4 pm on Monday, about 4.47 million samples had been collected and over 2.13 million test results returned, Wang said. All positive test results were traced to residents in Shufu where the first case was registered, and results from other areas in Kashgar were negative, he added.

 

Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation.  That is close to half the adult population.

This should be a serious wake up call for Americans.   When it comes to a war-like footing that demands cooperation from the bottom to the top and back again, it looks like the Chinese will be way ahead of the Americans.    The US can threaten to lob nuclear missiles but if it does, it risks killing close to half of the US population in part because US health outcomes are so abysmally poor.
 


"Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation. "


From what I've read, there was little "social cooperation" in the matter. The Chinese government mandated testing of the population and extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus. There was considerable use of force. 


https://www.theglobeandmail.co...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...

https://www.sciencemag.org/new...

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/28/...
 
Social cooperation and enforcement are not mutually exclusive. And first-hand accounts I have read from china did not indicate that they were subjected to force.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 3:22pm



 westslope wrote:


 Ohmsen wrote:
Wanna take a quick look, how China deals with (regional) Covid outbreaks
Starting at midnight on Sunday, four areas in Shufu were identified as high-risk areas for the virus' spread, and risk levels in other townships or villages in Shufu were upgraded to medium, according to the local disease control command center.

Kashgar launched a mass testing program covering its entire 4.75 million population following the detection of a 17-year-old girl in Shufu county who tested positive for the virus on Saturday during a routine check. The girl has shown no symptoms.

As of 4 pm on Monday, about 4.47 million samples had been collected and over 2.13 million test results returned, Wang said. All positive test results were traced to residents in Shufu where the first case was registered, and results from other areas in Kashgar were negative, he added.

 

Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation.  That is close to half the adult population.

This should be a serious wake up call for Americans.   When it comes to a war-like footing that demands cooperation from the bottom to the top and back again, it looks like the Chinese will be way ahead of the Americans.    The US can threaten to lob nuclear missiles but if it does, it risks killing close to half of the US population in part because US health outcomes are so abysmally poor.
 


"Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation. "


From what I've read, there was little "social cooperation" in the matter. The Chinese government mandated testing of the population and extreme physical isolation of  those testing positive for the coronavirus. There was considerable use of force. 


https://www.theglobeandmail.co...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...

https://www.sciencemag.org/new...

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/28/...
Ohmsen

Ohmsen Avatar

Location: Valhalla
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 3:07pm



 westslope wrote:


 Ohmsen wrote:
Wanna take a quick look, how China deals with (regional) Covid outbreaks
Starting at midnight on Sunday, four areas in Shufu were identified as high-risk areas for the virus' spread, and risk levels in other townships or villages in Shufu were upgraded to medium, according to the local disease control command center.

Kashgar launched a mass testing program covering its entire 4.75 million population following the detection of a 17-year-old girl in Shufu county who tested positive for the virus on Saturday during a routine check. The girl has shown no symptoms.

As of 4 pm on Monday, about 4.47 million samples had been collected and over 2.13 million test results returned, Wang said. All positive test results were traced to residents in Shufu where the first case was registered, and results from other areas in Kashgar were negative, he added.

 

Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation.  That is close to half the adult population.

This should be a serious wake up call for Americans.   When it comes to a war-like footing that demands cooperation from the bottom to the top and back again, it looks like the Chinese will be way ahead of the Americans.    The US can threaten to lob nuclear missiles but if it does, it risks killing close to half of the US population in part because US health outcomes are so abysmally poor.
 
I was meandering along (very) similar logical pathways.


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 2:44pm



 Ohmsen wrote:
Wanna take a quick look, how China deals with (regional) Covid outbreaks
Starting at midnight on Sunday, four areas in Shufu were identified as high-risk areas for the virus' spread, and risk levels in other townships or villages in Shufu were upgraded to medium, according to the local disease control command center.

Kashgar launched a mass testing program covering its entire 4.75 million population following the detection of a 17-year-old girl in Shufu county who tested positive for the virus on Saturday during a routine check. The girl has shown no symptoms.

As of 4 pm on Monday, about 4.47 million samples had been collected and over 2.13 million test results returned, Wang said. All positive test results were traced to residents in Shufu where the first case was registered, and results from other areas in Kashgar were negative, he added.

 

Americans who support a zero-sum game view of the world will NEVER attain this level of social cooperation.  That is close to half the adult population.

This should be a serious wake up call for Americans.   When it comes to a war-like footing that demands cooperation from the bottom to the top and back again, it looks like the Chinese will be way ahead of the Americans.    The US can threaten to lob nuclear missiles but if it does, it risks killing close to half of the US population in part because US health outcomes are so abysmally poor.
Ohmsen

Ohmsen Avatar

Location: Valhalla
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 1:59pm

Wanna take a quick look, how China deals with (regional) Covid outbreaks
Starting at midnight on Sunday, four areas in Shufu were identified as high-risk areas for the virus' spread, and risk levels in other townships or villages in Shufu were upgraded to medium, according to the local disease control command center.

Kashgar launched a mass testing program covering its entire 4.75 million population following the detection of a 17-year-old girl in Shufu county who tested positive for the virus on Saturday during a routine check. The girl has shown no symptoms.

As of 4 pm on Monday, about 4.47 million samples had been collected and over 2.13 million test results returned, Wang said. All positive test results were traced to residents in Shufu where the first case was registered, and results from other areas in Kashgar were negative, he added.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 9:49am



 Marshall McLuhan wrote:
When Gabor Erdosi writes a piece for fully functioning adults, please let me know.  21 tweets?     So folks with ADD can read and understand!?!!
 


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 9:36am

When Gabor Erdosi writes a piece for fully functioning adults, please let me know.  21 tweets?     So folks with ADD can read and understand!?!!

As for the referenced study, n=360,000  is indeed a large sample.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 7:06am



 miamizsun wrote:


really good thread on immunity

 


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 6:29am



really good thread on immunity

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 6:23am


Ohmsen

Ohmsen Avatar

Location: Valhalla
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 3:36pm

Repeated, as of Oct. 11, 2020 -

CDC stunning new survival rates for Covid…


NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 12:44pm

and there are a number of countries managing it pretty well it turns out.. Taiwan: population 23 million, 550 cases since the onset..
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 12:38pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

{#Whisper} old news. .. dates from August.

As of 27 October there are 68 active cases of which 64 are in quarantine facilities, many of them Russian seamen I believe who recently arrived to work on the trawler fleet in the  Southern Ocean.

 
 
My bad, I actually checked different links and thought they said todays date.  Search engines and FB post are ridiculously unreliable nowadays either with veracity of chronology randomness.{#Sad}
 
no big deal. NZ-ers are really appreciating their tight border controls (external restrictions) and internal freedoms. They are in a recession, largely due to the loss of tourism revenue, but apart from that, life is continuing as normal, including packed stadiums to watch the rugby.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 12:27pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

{#Whisper} old news. .. dates from August.

As of 27 October there are 68 active cases of which 64 are in quarantine facilities, many of them Russian seamen I believe who recently arrived to work on the trawler fleet in the  Southern Ocean.

 
 
My bad, I actually checked different links and thought they said todays date.  Search engines and FB post are ridiculously unreliable nowadays either with veracity of chronology randomness.{#Sad}
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