[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Baseball, anyone? - zevon - Mar 28, 2024 - 10:02am
 
Ukraine - Beaker - Mar 28, 2024 - 9:41am
 
Breaking News - Steely_D - Mar 28, 2024 - 9:39am
 
The Obituary Page - rgio - Mar 28, 2024 - 9:30am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - Beaker - Mar 28, 2024 - 9:30am
 
March 2024 Photo Theme - Many - Alchemist - Mar 28, 2024 - 9:03am
 
NY Times Strands - geoff_morphini - Mar 28, 2024 - 8:37am
 
NYTimes Connections - geoff_morphini - Mar 28, 2024 - 8:29am
 
Wordle - daily game - geoff_morphini - Mar 28, 2024 - 8:25am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - pilgrim - Mar 28, 2024 - 8:19am
 
Business as Usual - black321 - Mar 28, 2024 - 8:09am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - black321 - Mar 28, 2024 - 7:44am
 
Trump - rgio - Mar 28, 2024 - 7:29am
 
Outstanding Covers - thisbody - Mar 28, 2024 - 5:51am
 
Today in History - DaveInSaoMiguel - Mar 28, 2024 - 4:28am
 
USA! USA! USA! - R_P - Mar 27, 2024 - 7:40pm
 
Little known information...maybe even facts - haresfur - Mar 27, 2024 - 6:21pm
 
Live Music - oldviolin - Mar 27, 2024 - 5:08pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Mar 27, 2024 - 3:48pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - miamizsun - Mar 27, 2024 - 2:44pm
 
Please Don't Post Here - Red_Dragon - Mar 27, 2024 - 11:02am
 
Motivational Office Cliches... - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Mar 26, 2024 - 10:20pm
 
(Big) Media Watch - Red_Dragon - Mar 26, 2024 - 6:18pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - miamizsun - Mar 26, 2024 - 4:10pm
 
Israel - R_P - Mar 26, 2024 - 12:24pm
 
Photos you have taken of your walks or hikes. - Steely_D - Mar 26, 2024 - 12:04pm
 
Solar / Wind / Geothermal / Efficiency Energy - islander - Mar 26, 2024 - 8:00am
 
Is there any DOG news out there? - Beez - Mar 26, 2024 - 7:24am
 
Food - Steely_D - Mar 26, 2024 - 1:41am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Mar 25, 2024 - 6:56pm
 
Derplahoma! - Red_Dragon - Mar 25, 2024 - 3:48pm
 
Frequent drop outs (The Netherlands) - kingen - Mar 25, 2024 - 2:43pm
 
China - R_P - Mar 25, 2024 - 11:59am
 
Musky Mythology - R_P - Mar 25, 2024 - 11:20am
 
Play history seems to indicate that I"m streaming 24/7, b... - jarro - Mar 25, 2024 - 10:44am
 
April 8th Partial Solar Eclipse - Coaxial - Mar 24, 2024 - 6:22pm
 
New Music - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 24, 2024 - 5:07pm
 
Dental Floss Tycoons, and other Montana Myths, Facts, and... - Red_Dragon - Mar 24, 2024 - 12:32pm
 
Orbiting Earth - oldviolin - Mar 24, 2024 - 9:42am
 
Basketball - oldviolin - Mar 23, 2024 - 2:50pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 23, 2024 - 1:54pm
 
Joe Biden - kurtster - Mar 23, 2024 - 11:17am
 
Technical Streaming Note for Nerdy RP DIYers - sjagminas1 - Mar 23, 2024 - 10:16am
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - Proclivities - Mar 23, 2024 - 8:56am
 
Other Medical Stuff - Antigone - Mar 22, 2024 - 3:06pm
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - oldviolin - Mar 22, 2024 - 11:06am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - Red_Dragon - Mar 22, 2024 - 9:17am
 
Memorials - Remembering Our Loved Ones - Bill_J - Mar 21, 2024 - 8:54pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - VV - Mar 21, 2024 - 2:29pm
 
Can you afford to retire? - DaveInSaoMiguel - Mar 21, 2024 - 2:15pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 21, 2024 - 11:10am
 
What Did You See Today? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 20, 2024 - 5:13pm
 
Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - ScottFromWyoming - Mar 20, 2024 - 4:31pm
 
Upcoming concerts or shows you can't wait to see - Antigone - Mar 20, 2024 - 3:10pm
 
Russia - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Mar 20, 2024 - 11:44am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - Proclivities - Mar 20, 2024 - 9:33am
 
2024 Elections! - Lazy8 - Mar 20, 2024 - 7:26am
 
Economix - R_P - Mar 19, 2024 - 4:36pm
 
Name My Band - DaveInSaoMiguel - Mar 19, 2024 - 10:53am
 
RP automation with iOS Shortcuts App - jarro - Mar 19, 2024 - 10:15am
 
Delicacies: a..k.a.. the Gross Food forum - DaveInSaoMiguel - Mar 19, 2024 - 10:12am
 
Irony 101 - Proclivities - Mar 19, 2024 - 6:02am
 
New Forum Member on "What Makes RP Great" - miamizsun - Mar 19, 2024 - 4:38am
 
Cache stopped working on old Android Phone - Eisenwindel - Mar 19, 2024 - 1:50am
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - Bill_J - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:23pm
 
Damn Dinosaurs! - oldviolin - Mar 18, 2024 - 8:16pm
 
One Partying State - Wyoming News - geoff_morphini - Mar 18, 2024 - 3:58pm
 
Great guitar faces - skyguy - Mar 18, 2024 - 3:33pm
 
Despots, dictators and war criminals - R_P - Mar 18, 2024 - 12:41pm
 
Uploading Music - dischuckin - Mar 18, 2024 - 11:55am
 
Media Matters - thisbody - Mar 18, 2024 - 10:03am
 
NASA & other news from space - miamizsun - Mar 18, 2024 - 4:13am
 
MEALTICKET - drinpt - Mar 17, 2024 - 4:13am
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - Mar 16, 2024 - 7:31pm
 
Apple Computer - GeneP59 - Mar 16, 2024 - 12:02pm
 
Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 107, 108, 109  Next
Post to this Topic
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Mar 28, 2024 - 9:41am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
apropos

"France announces that from now on, they will export arms ONLY to Ukraine.

With the US no longer siding with democracy, France is picking up where America has failed.

Macron gets it."

now lets hope Germany follows suit and finally ramps up production.


:thumbsup:
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2024 - 2:36am

apropos

"France announces that from now on, they will export arms ONLY to Ukraine.

With the US no longer siding with democracy, France is picking up where America has failed.

Macron gets it."

now lets hope Germany follows suit and finally ramps up production.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2024 - 1:30am

 Lazy8 wrote:

I won't miss Orban but the social forces that brought him to power aren't going away any time soon. Poland and France both have had close calls with populist nativism lately, and I worry that Macron overplaying his hand could bring a backlash that Russia is eager to exploit.

American weapons come with American strings attached. So far limiting them to Ukraine proper has still let them make a huge difference; the tradeoff of access for restrictions seems to have been worth it to the Ukrainians. If France wants to let them shoot SCALPs at Moscow that's their business, but I can't see it playing well here.

I don't think anyone other than Russia (and I include Macron in that anyone) wants a wider war. Hell, nobody outside of Russia wanted the war we have now.

OK, the tankies will scour the internet to find someone (anyone!) who is arguing for an invasion and Saddam-style regime change in Russia, but we all know that view is held by a microscopic minority.

I'm glad Europe is finally stepping up to defend itself. I hope y'all can advance faster than we retreat. Who'd have imagined 20 years ago that the key to dismantling American power would be electing Republicans, and that they would have a significant faction supporting a Russian dictator?

 I know, srsly! Unbelievable. 

You are right on the populist forces at work in Europe (and the U.S. for that matter,  and NZ, and Mars, and.. ). I still can't tell how much is substance and how much just carefully exploited knee-jerk reaction.  Once Putin goes, it will be interesting to see who jumps in to fill the gap. (That someone will, goes without saying). But I'm hoping the whole propaganda thing gets turned down a notch. 

I maybe subject to confirmation bias here, but I have the feeling that the pacifists and no-weapons crowd are slowly starting to have some doubts. The German SPD is a good case in point. They were genuinely surprised at the vehement response of just about every historical scholar at their recent "freeze the war" action. They are kind of like the idiot owners of badly-trained dogs saying, "he's a nice dog, really. he likes children" as the dog proceeds to maul every kid in the playground.

On this point, I was genuinely shocked at reactions in Germany to massacres like Bucha and Mariupol. I would say only about 20% of the population really understand the significance and are "all in" in supporting Ukraine. Another 40-50% were appalled, but in an arm's length kind of way, another roughly 15-20% were strongly pacifist, and at a guess, 10-15% were pro-Russian/sympathizers.

I really didn't expect such lack of empathy, I mean, if you truly understood the weight of your country's history, you can't possibly just drop the shutters and pretend not to see (speaking to a hypothetical universal German here). The ONLY possible response IMO is to do all you can to protect the victims. And I would have expected a passionate response, not this limp, here have some helmets, ok, guns, ok, some air defence, alright some tanks, but that's it. As though they were lobotomised by the lessons of the war rather than learning from it.

Some Germans do have a strong moral compass and have understood the issue, thank goodness, so I haven't totally lost faith in the country, but I was shocked at how many shrugged their shoulders and said, "not my problem."




Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 10:46pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
yep, I mentioned that a couple of doors down.  Somehow I think the Ukrainians have given up caring what the US want. Sure, they need US support but it has been so lacklustre of late that you have to start thinking, stuff this, let's do it our way. A lot of production capacity is getting installed in Ukraine right now, making them even more independent. Poland seems to have a good thing going with Korea and the Scandinavians and French aren't bad at making weapons either.

On this note, the right noises are starting to be made in Paris and one can only hope the SPD get kicked out of the government in the elections in Germany this year. 
Hungary is also looking like Orban's days might soon be numbered.

I won't miss Orban but the social forces that brought him to power aren't going away any time soon. Poland and France both have had close calls with populist nativism lately, and I worry that Macron overplaying his hand could bring a backlash that Russia is eager to exploit.

American weapons come with American strings attached. So far limiting them to Ukraine proper has still let them make a huge difference; the tradeoff of access for restrictions seems to have been worth it to the Ukrainians. If France wants to let them shoot SCALPs at Moscow that's their business, but I can't see it playing well here.

I don't think anyone other than Russia (and I include Macron in that anyone) wants a wider war. Hell, nobody outside of Russia wanted the war we have now.

OK, the tankies will scour the internet to find someone (anyone!) who is arguing for an invasion and Saddam-style regime change in Russia, but we all know that view is held by a microscopic minority.

I'm glad Europe is finally stepping up to defend itself. I hope y'all can advance faster than we retreat. Who'd have imagined 20 years ago that the key to dismantling American power would be electing Republicans, and that they would have a significant faction supporting a Russian dictator?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 11:30am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Separate issues, but both driven by domestic politics. Taking out Russian oil refineries will raise world oil prices. This becomes a domestic campaign issue: They're costing you money at the gas pump! Yes, it sounds childish, but there it is.


yep, I mentioned that a couple of doors down.  Somehow I think the Ukrainians have given up caring what the US want. Sure, they need US support but it has been so lacklustre of late that you have to start thinking, stuff this, let's do it our way. A lot of production capacity is getting installed in Ukraine right now, making them even more independent. Poland seems to have a good thing going with Korea and the Scandinavians and French aren't bad at making weapons either.

On this note, the right noises are starting to be made in Paris and one can only hope the SPD get kicked out of the government in the elections in Germany this year. 
Hungary is also looking like Orban's days might soon be numbered. 
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 10:27am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
but Ukraine is using its own drones  to attack targets in Russia. Where's the problem in that?

Separate issues, but both driven by domestic politics. Taking out Russian oil refineries will raise world oil prices. This becomes a domestic campaign issue: They're costing you money at the gas pump! Yes, it sounds childish, but there it is.
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 10:19am

How Ukraine became the unlikely home for Isis leaders escaping the caliphate (2019-11-21)
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 9:07am

 Lazy8 wrote:

The fear is that if Russia gets to tell the story that American weapons are falling on Russian soil then they are justified in escalating to attack America. Yes, they will say that anyway—and since annexing large parts of Ukraine they are making the flimsy claim that those areas are, in fact, Russian soil—so the threat is more than a little hollow. Like all the red lines that were supposed to lead to a nuclear exchange.

There are also domestic isolationists/pro-Russians to mollify. They will howl that America is bombing Russia regardless of who is doing the actual bombing so long as there is any wisp of justification.


but Ukraine is using its own drones  to attack targets in Russia. Where's the problem in that?  

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 8:05am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
what the actual... ? those days should be long gone. Like for like (tit for tat) should be the minimum policy now. What is the reasoning behind their reticence?

The fear is that if Russia gets to tell the story that American weapons are falling on Russian soil then they are justified in escalating to attack America. Yes, they will say that anyway—and since annexing large parts of Ukraine they are making the flimsy claim that those areas are, in fact, Russian soil—so the threat is more than a little hollow. Like all the red lines that were supposed to lead to a nuclear exchange.

There are also domestic isolationists/pro-Russians to mollify. They will howl that America is bombing Russia regardless of who is doing the actual bombing so long as there is any wisp of justification.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 7:26am

btw, Russia just hit a residential building in Kharkiv with a guided bomb. 
enough of this nonsense. 

Give Ukraine what it needs. NOW!  
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 6:42am

 black321 wrote:


leaves the whole world blind and sooty


  quite.
(btw, we are fighting a fascist regime here that is hell bent on weakening the west to consolidate power at home. Pacifism isn't going to cut it)


It's kind of like saying, here's a missile to defend yourself with, but you only allowed to shoot yourself in the foot with it.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 6:41am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


refinery for refinery



leaves the whole world blind and sooty
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 6:34am

 black321 wrote:


eye for an eye...


refinery for refinery

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 6:33am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

QUESTION: On Ukraine.

MR MILLER: Ukraine? Yeah, go ahead.

QUESTION: The Ukrainians have recently said after some reports about the U.S. warning them not to target Russian oil refineries that they understand those warnings but they have certain military targets that they will continue to target. Can you just bring us up to speed with regard to those conversations between the U.S. and Ukraine and if you guys have recently been telling them that they should not go after these Russian oil refineries?

MR MILLER: So I’m not going to speak to specific conversations, but it has always been our position since the outset of this war that we do not encourage or support Ukraine taking strikes outside its own territory.

what the actual... ? those days should be long gone. Like for like (tit for tat) should be the minimum policy now. What is the reasoning behind their reticence?


eye for an eye...
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2024 - 6:32am

QUESTION: On Ukraine.

MR MILLER: Ukraine? Yeah, go ahead.

QUESTION: The Ukrainians have recently said after some reports about the U.S. warning them not to target Russian oil refineries that they understand those warnings but they have certain military targets that they will continue to target. Can you just bring us up to speed with regard to those conversations between the U.S. and Ukraine and if you guys have recently been telling them that they should not go after these Russian oil refineries?

MR MILLER: So I’m not going to speak to specific conversations, but it has always been our position since the outset of this war that we do not encourage or support Ukraine taking strikes outside its own territory.

what the actual... ?? those days should be long gone. Like for like (tit for tat) should be the minimum policy now. What is the reasoning behind their reticence?
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 26, 2024 - 7:37am

 R_P wrote:
Or March, 1968? March, 2006? March, 2023?

I think my point was clear. What's yours?
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Mar 26, 2024 - 2:15am

 R_P wrote:



Conducting a public opinion poll over the outcome of a war?  Moronic. 

Posting said poll?  Are we sure you're not just another dumb bot?
R_P

R_P Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 24, 2024 - 3:20pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Setting aside for the moment what the definition of "wins" is in this context, how would that poll have looked if it were conducted at the end of March, 1941?

Or March, 1968? March, 2006? March, 2023?

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 24, 2024 - 2:33pm

 R_P wrote:

Setting aside for the moment what the definition of "wins" is in this context, how would that poll have looked if it were conducted at the end of March, 1941?
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 24, 2024 - 11:28am

 R_P wrote:


AKA apathy. 

that article is also a month old.  Most of Europe somehow think the war won't affect them. Kind of like the US before Pearl Harbor. 
Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 107, 108, 109  Next