Restore the title, please. This discussion will continue with or without you or not at all. Nothing is forcing you to participate. Just make it easier for those who wish to continue.
Restore the title, please. This discussion will continue with or without you or not at all. Nothing is forcing you to participate. Just make it easier for those who wish to continue.
We'd all be glad to but experience shows that in a day or two you will make another off the cuff post that is insensitive and/or offensive to a certain group of people. Not sure which group but that's the fun I suppose.
Maybe you could resolve in the New Year to really think about your posts and read them before you hit the "submit" button.
...no, not okay. Why? ...because I think the original intent was benefical...just the wording was a little too absolute. there are always gray areas in a discussion...sometimes things are not always black or white.
I saw this thread as a possible continuation of the TED video on "good or evil" that Richard posted....so you see, different people view things in a different light.
edit: and then there are people that are just bozo the clown
...hummm, looks like sometimes people confuse their beliefs with they, themselves. maybe. I'm not seeing a personal attack, I'm seeing a disagreement with a characterization & the way it was delivered. But, that's just my opinion & viewpoint.
I think its' hard to make a "blanket" statement about a group of people and have that "blanket" cover everyone in that group. Generalizations of that type are bound to hurt some peoples feelings, as the generalization does not apply to them or people they know. there will always be differences of opinions...no one is exactly alike or has a thinking process that is exactly alike.
mind reading doesn't work either.
Everyone is right, I am all wrongs, sorry I started this.
No, I deleted it because I was getting personally attacked. That is not a discussion.
...hummm, looks like sometimes people confuse their beliefs with they, themselves. maybe. I'm not seeing a personal attack, I'm seeing a disagreement with a characterization & the way it was delivered. But, that's just my opinion & viewpoint.
I think its' hard to make a "blanket" statement about a group of people and have that "blanket" cover everyone in that group. Generalizations of that type are bound to hurt some peoples feelings, as the generalization does not apply to them or people they know. there will always be differences of opinions...no one is exactly alike or has a thinking process that is exactly alike.
Sorry, I have heard many many religious people give that exact reason for believing in a god. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone, but I have heard it used as a reason for morality many many times. And I have heard them say "How can you have a moral base if you don't believe in god?"
I've heard that too. And I've heard tell of a buch of Muslims who would blow others up and die for their God. In other words, there are whack-jobs across the religious (and the non-religious) spectrum. Painting all religious individuals with the brush used by the whack-jobs doesn't advance the thought that morality can be had without a religious driving mechanism. And I think many of the less fervent religious individuals would agree that morality can be had without religion.
You said "Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do"
So you assigned motive behind people's morality and you did it in a very limited way. People have a myriad of motivations for morality. Some religious, some spiritual, some just because they believe it is the right thing to do. You are being chastised for a comment that was ill conceived and even more poorly written.
Personally, I agree that you don't need religion to have morality, but the statement that you made limiting why religious people and atheists have morality is derailing this conversation to the point where you felt you had to delete it.
Winter summed it up nicely at the end.
Sorry, I have heard many many religious people give that exact reason for believing in a god. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone, but I have heard it used as a reason for morality many many times. And I have heard them say "How can you have a moral base if you don't believe in god?"
Wait! Did I say that all religious people believe in one thing and all atheists believe in something else? No. I just said, a few times, that morality and a belief in a god are not exclusive. And apparently you agree with that.
You said "Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do"
So you assigned motive behind people's morality and you did it in a very limited way. People have a myriad of motivations for morality. Some religious, some spiritual, some just because they believe it is the right thing to do. You are being chastised for a comment that was ill conceived and even more poorly written.
Personally, I agree that you don't need religion to have morality, but the statement that you made limiting why religious people and atheists have morality is derailing this conversation to the point where you felt you had to delete it.
...I was wondering the same thing....one minute I was reading it and thinking about it...and POOF! its suddenly gone.
...guees its originator decided that if people didn't agree with her line of thinking and actually strayed slightly from the "approved" line of discussion it should be deleted.
..too bad, it was interesting and perhaps benefical.
No, I deleted it because I was getting personally attacked. That is not a discussion.
...I was wondering the same thing....one minute I was reading it and thinking about it...and POOF! its suddenly gone.
...guees its originator decided that if people didn't agree with her line of thinking and actually strayed slightly from the "approved" line of discussion it should be deleted.
..too bad, it was interesting and perhaps benefical.
It's a truth universally acknowledged that universally acknowledged truths are often crap. For someone who claims not to believe in truths so much as stories, you talk in a lot of absolutes. For someone who tries to tells the rest of us not to judge, you spend a lot of energy judging. I'm an atheist. I try to live morally because the other way's no way to live, and because there's enough suffering in the world without me adding to the sum total. So do most of the people of faith I know. I'm not going to waste a lot of time on this. But I think you owe a lot of people an apology. It's not faith or conservatism or any external thing that makes people behave badly. It's their own choice to do what they do, and it's almost never for one simple reason. People are complicated. Any effort to reduce all that to a simple slogan or overarching ideal is diminishing and dehumanizing.
Wait! Did I say that all religious people believe in one thing and all atheists believe in something else? No. I just said, a few times, that morality and a belief in a god are not exclusive. And apparently you agree with that.
Religious people live moral lives because they think that god will punish them if they don't. Atheists live moral lives just because it's the right thing to do.
And besides, there is no proof that people who believe in a god have a stronger moral belief; in fact, I believe that RG states just the opposite.
It's a truth universally acknowledged that universally acknowledged truths are often crap.
For someone who claims not to believe in truths so much as stories, you talk in a lot of absolutes. For someone who tries to tells the rest of us not to judge, you spend a lot of energy judging.
I'm an atheist. I try to live morally because the other way's no way to live, and because there's enough suffering in the world without me adding to the sum total. So do most of the people of faith I know.
I'm not going to waste a lot of time on this. But I think you owe a lot of people an apology. It's not faith or conservatism or any external thing that makes people behave badly. It's their own choice to do what they do, and it's almost never for one simple reason. People are complicated. Any effort to reduce all that to a simple slogan or overarching ideal is diminishing and dehumanizing.
...I was wondering the same thing....one minute I was reading it and thinking about it...and POOF! its suddenly gone.