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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » The End of Europe Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 52, 53, 54  Next
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Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 23, 2016 - 3:36am

Small update from Europe: Berlin attacker killed after shootout with the Italian police, libyan plane hijacked and european churches get security advice for the upcoming christmas ceremonies.
Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2016 - 2:56am

Merkel on Berlin Xmas market tragedy: 'We must assume this was a terrorist attack'

The chancellor said that all of Germany was united in grief, adding that it would be particularly painful if the attacker "came to Germany for protection and asylum."  

It's already painful for years dear Merkel. Did you just wake up?
Kaw

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Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 20, 2016 - 12:53am

Berlin attack: Police say lorry crash 'probably terror attack'

Police search Berlin’s biggest asylum centre




Kaw

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Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 19, 2016 - 2:46pm

Berlin Breitscheidplatz: Lorry kills nine at Christmas market

The horror...
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Dec 7, 2016 - 4:31pm

 aflanigan wrote: 
The horror!
Coaxial

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Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2016 - 4:21pm

 miamizsun wrote:

and they're have rice pudding for dessert!

 
How can they have any pudding if they don't eat their meat?
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2016 - 3:27pm

 aflanigan wrote: 
and they're have rice pudding for dessert!
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 7, 2016 - 2:16pm

Muslim-owned business making war on Christmas in the UK by feeding homeless and elderly.
Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 22, 2016 - 4:34am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

well, it is all propaganda now. 

I kind of like Monbiot's take on this matter 
 
His argument is centered around the agricultural subsidies. These subsidies are orrigionally made for the french farmers that could not compete with highly industrialised and supersized farms in north Europe and north America. But years later they are now highly beneficial for countries like Poland because the costs of living is much lower the gain from the subsidy is almost like a full social income for farmers.
On the other end of the spectrum there are land owners that do not have a farm but get money just for having land. That's the Brussels spirit. Just like raising taxes for the people, but giving yourself tax reductions because you are a member of the EU parlement. In the end almost all decissions have nothing to do with the interests of the people in Europe, but with the personal gains of the people making those laws.

And there is not a thing we can do about it except voting for exit if you live in Britain or saying no to some random proposal in a referendum in NL. That's what we are seeing. People do not want to leave Europe as a group of friends living in peace and having a good time together, but they want to say NO to the post democracy that is ruled by a few 'lucky' aristocrats in Brussels.

The politicians in my country are so eager to get a job in Brussels that they constantly act against dutch interests. They don't care. For example the investigation of the MH17 incident is completely kept secret and results are delayed until Brussels think it's fine to publish them. There was a referendum on 6 april, but the primeminister delayed any action because Brussels wanted him to do so. Most countries negociate reductions on the bills we have to pay for the European Union. The Netherlands? We just pay without asking any questions.
Also they voted yes to TTIP without even knowing what they are voting for. Just because Brussels.

Reason? In the Netherlands the income after taxes for a politician is around 50.000 euro. In Brussels incomes are much better. They get 74400 euro a year after taxes and 304 euro a day for showing up. That's 135200 euro income if you show up 200 days a year. (There are a few youtube video's showing members entering the building, signing in and leaving again without doing any work.)  Also you get 21.000 euro a month to spend of employees that can (and has) be spend on family members. Then there is money for 'general costs' of 4299 euro a month.
So your tax free income is 186788,- a year if you leave your family out of the business. If you include payments to family members, the 0.49c/km travel compensation, 5000 euro for education and upto 45.000 euro compensation for literature, dining and conferences... You get the picture...
They take good care for themselves.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 22, 2016 - 3:33am

 Kaw wrote:


Also the dutch media is constantly defending the remain camp with arguments that the exit camp consists of xenofobic populists that just want to destroy europe and that the intelligent progressive people vote remain.

I remember lessons at school about communism and propaganda...
 
well, it is all propaganda now. 

I kind of like Monbiot's take on this matter 


Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 22, 2016 - 2:01am

The Brexit discussion is exploding into a rainbow of complete bullshit.
The remain camp is basicly saying this:
- Good, intelligent and independend thinking people vote remain (proof?)
- Bad, stupid, xenofobic people vote exit (proof?)
- Brexit killed one of us! look what you have done! (proof?)
- World will end, world war III, economic collapse. (proof?)

And a few less extreme points: 
- Remain is cheaper because Europe will make things as expensive as possible when we try to leave (is this essentially a good reason to stay?)
- Yes the bureaucracy and undemocratic properties of the EU are bad, but we get a lot in return (is it?)

The exit camp is not much better:
- Brexit is better for the economy (proof?)
- Without the EU we would not get that many immigrants (is it?)
- Brits are the best and that's why we must stay independend (oh really)

And a few points that make sense:
- Bureaucracy
- Undemocratic
- Only really beneficial for south and east europe

Also the dutch media is constantly defending the remain camp with arguments that the exit camp consists of xenofobic populists that just want to destroy europe and that the intelligent progressive people vote remain.

I remember lessons at school about communism and propaganda...

Kaw

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Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2016 - 10:25am


Kaw

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Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2016 - 12:56am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Kaw wrote:
No they are drowning and rotting. I'm not trying to troll you here but I sincerely do not understand why not at least some of them try to do it the bureaucratic way instead of the criminal way.

I once helped a women from Iraq to get her son to the Netherlands. While I was doing the paperwork she borrowed 6000 euro from people from my church and paid smugglers to get her son through Turkey to Spain. The plan failed and her son was send back to Iran. (!?!) She turned out to be Iranian and not from Iraq. I helped her anyway because I believed by that time there was a mix up or something. They got clearance to go to the Netherlands and after he was able to get back to Turkey he flew without problems to the Netherlands. Just a plane ticket costing 300 euros.

Most people trying to flee areas in conflict don't have sponsors. And I'm not sure how you know they haven't tried the bureaucratic process.

I've helped someone thru that process too, and I'm familiar with the issues that documenting identity and citizenship have in the middle east. For one, names have to be transliterated to the language of the visa issuing country. Do you have any idea how many different versions of the name "Mohammad" there are? Try applying with documents from Iraq, Syria, and Jordan, all of which have different regional pronunciations and spellings. If they don't all match your documents don't look like they all belong to the same person. Some regions specify tribe, then family name, then given name. Some reverse the order. Some omit tribe. The clerk at the consulate gets this pile of paper and knows that approving it does nothing for him, but if he can point to a discrepancy he can disapprove it and get it off his desk.

So it's understandable if a refugee doesn't have papers, or loses some because they know they will cause trouble. And all of this costs money, time, language skills, and expertise in navigating bureaucracies that refugees usually don't have.

It seems a little "let-them-eat-cake" smug to tell people to use a process that was intended for a different situation, then blame them when that process fails them.

 
It's true that most refugees have no sponsors, but they don't need to. This women was already in the Netherlands. I was just helping her to get her son here too. If she was still in Turkey the Dutch embassade could have helped her because they have arab speaking people too. She had all the papers she needed and money for everything. Still she choose for the smuggling route. Her explaination was that she did not trust the government. So she trusted the human smuggling criminals instead.

Reality was that her Iraq passport was fake. That was the reason she did not want to do it the bureaucratic way. To my suprise she was accepted anyway. Her son arived in the Netherlands with an Iranian passport. He lost it between the airport and the refugee centre. Just like many others. In the refugee centre he was from Iraq and because his mom already got a status he got it too fairly quick.
She wasn't the only one. Even the Syrians are lying too. Every single man in the refugee centre in my town is from Aleppo and have seen his familie getting killed. Sure... And after getting status they try to get their killed family to the Netherlands too.
Church policy is now not to ask the refugees about their background because they all lie about it anyway. Just help them and do not ask questions. Sorry, that's not my style. I still help them once in a while but I am often cynical about the underlying reason for their travel to the Netherlands.

The embassies in the region are trained to work on the problems like transliterations and not registered birthdays. They speak the languages. In Turkey hundreds of visa are handed out every day. That's working just fine. Syrian people are allowed to use the Turkish embassy and I have heared that they got instructions to be helpful to syrian people.
There are in fact a few people using the airport to apply for a refugee status but that's like 10 a week (incl. people from Africa) while hundreds a week cross the border illegally. The problem using the airport is that they know your exact identity. I believe that this is the main reason people try it the illegal way. Other reasons are that human smugglers advertise and the european countries do not. 


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 31, 2016 - 2:02pm

 Kaw wrote:
No they are drowning and rotting. I'm not trying to troll you here but I sincerely do not understand why not at least some of them try to do it the bureaucratic way instead of the criminal way.

I once helped a women from Iraq to get her son to the Netherlands. While I was doing the paperwork she borrowed 6000 euro from people from my church and paid smugglers to get her son through Turkey to Spain. The plan failed and her son was send back to Iran. (!?!) She turned out to be Iranian and not from Iraq. I helped her anyway because I believed by that time there was a mix up or something. They got clearance to go to the Netherlands and after he was able to get back to Turkey he flew without problems to the Netherlands. Just a plane ticket costing 300 euros.

Most people trying to flee areas in conflict don't have sponsors. And I'm not sure how you know they haven't tried the bureaucratic process.

I've helped someone thru that process too, and I'm familiar with the issues that documenting identity and citizenship have in the middle east. For one, names have to be transliterated to the language of the visa issuing country. Do you have any idea how many different versions of the name "Mohammad" there are? Try applying with documents from Iraq, Syria, and Jordan, all of which have different regional pronunciations and spellings. If they don't all match your documents don't look like they all belong to the same person. Some regions specify tribe, then family name, then given name. Some reverse the order. Some omit tribe. The clerk at the consulate gets this pile of paper and knows that approving it does nothing for him, but if he can point to a discrepancy he can disapprove it and get it off his desk.

So it's understandable if a refugee doesn't have papers, or loses some because they know they will cause trouble. And all of this costs money, time, language skills, and expertise in navigating bureaucracies that refugees usually don't have.

It seems a little "let-them-eat-cake" smug to tell people to use a process that was intended for a different situation, then blame them when that process fails them.
Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: May 31, 2016 - 1:35pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Kaw wrote:
And yet they arive in the Netherlands with Syrian passports after paying smugglers around 1300 euro pro person or more.

I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse there. No one is drowning at sea. No one is rotting in a refugee camp. They should all just quit complaining and buy airplane tickets.

 
No they are drowning and rotting. I'm not trying to troll you here but I sincerely do not understand why not at least some of them try to do it the bureaucratic way instead of the criminal way.

I once helped a women from Iraq to get her son to the Netherlands. While I was doing the paperwork she borrowed 6000 euro from people from my church and paid smugglers to get her son through Turkey to Spain. The plan failed and her son was send back to Iran. (!?!) She turned out to be Iranian and not from Iraq. I helped her anyway because I believed by that time there was a mix up or something. They got clearance to go to the Netherlands and after he was able to get back to Turkey he flew without problems to the Netherlands. Just a plane ticket costing 300 euros.


rotekz

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Posted: May 31, 2016 - 1:23pm


Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 31, 2016 - 12:55pm

 Kaw wrote:
And yet they arive in the Netherlands with Syrian passports after paying smugglers around 1300 euro pro person or more.

I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse there. No one is drowning at sea. No one is rotting in a refugee camp. They should all just quit complaining and buy airplane tickets.
Kaw

Kaw Avatar

Location: Just above sea level
Gender: Male


Posted: May 31, 2016 - 11:11am

 Lazy8 wrote:
 Kaw wrote:
Yeah nice investigation. Kudo's for the energy.
But how about the European embassies in Turkey or Libanon when you are trying to get to Europe?

Yeah, how about them? Gosh, you must be the first person to think of that!

I want you to ponder something for a moment.

Let's say you are trying to flee with your family from an oppressive government or faction of religious zealots that has gone to war against you. They have driven you from your home and confiscated everything you own, including your travel documents. You left behind everything and everyone you ever knew and have managed to bribe or sneak your way across the border into a neighboring country overflowing with people just like you.

Would you put that family onto a rickety boat to cross the Mediterranean if you had any other choice? Would you risk drowning, death at the hands of unscrupulous criminals, or deportation back to the fate you fled if you had any other choice? Do people take that step just to avoid a long line at an embassy?

Do you seriously think that the problem is that simple? If so you should step forward and solve it. Go to Lebanon or Turkey or Jordan and point out how easy it would be to legally seek asylum. You could save a lot of lives with your unique insight and perspective.

They'd be Arab lives, (mostly) Muslim lives, but you could save them.

I mean, if that matters to you. At all.


And yet they arive in the Netherlands with Syrian passports after paying smugglers around 1300 euro pro person or more.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 31, 2016 - 9:55am

 Kaw wrote:
Yeah nice investigation. Kudo's for the energy.
But how about the European embassies in Turkey or Libanon when you are trying to get to Europe?

Yeah, how about them? Gosh, you must be the first person to think of that!

I want you to ponder something for a moment.

Let's say you are trying to flee with your family from an oppressive government or faction of religious zealots that has gone to war against you. They have driven you from your home and confiscated everything you own, including your travel documents. You left behind everything and everyone you ever knew and have managed to bribe or sneak your way across the border into a neighboring country overflowing with people just like you.

Would you put that family onto a rickety boat to cross the Mediterranean if you had any other choice? Would you risk drowning, death at the hands of unscrupulous criminals, or deportation back to the fate you fled if you had any other choice? Do people take that step just to avoid a long line at an embassy?

Do you seriously think that the problem is that simple? If so you should step forward and solve it. Go to Lebanon or Turkey or Jordan and point out how easy it would be to legally seek asylum. You could save a lot of lives with your unique insight and perspective.

They'd be Arab lives, (mostly) Muslim lives, but you could save them.

I mean, if that matters to you. At all.
rotekz

rotekz Avatar



Posted: May 31, 2016 - 9:09am

Dalai Lama Warns Against Taking Too Many Migrants, Arab Domination: ‘Migrants Should Return’


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