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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » America's Cup - it's about sailing ...... Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
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geoff_morphini

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 19, 2019 - 4:19pm



 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 
 just missed seeing this yesterday. I was standing on the hill in the background.

had trouble embedding the video.. but the boat is out of this world. The speed this thing goes is just nuts.
here's another one

 
Wow, just wow!

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 19, 2019 - 2:51pm

 
 just missed seeing this yesterday. I was standing on the hill in the background.

had trouble embedding the video.. but the boat is out of this world. The speed this thing goes is just nuts.
here's another one

sunybuny

sunybuny Avatar

Location: The West & Best Coast of FLA
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 5:16am

 aflanigan wrote:

When I was regularly racing larger boats 25-35 foot, the people who wanted to be more competitive were told to buy a dinghy and race it. It's hard to learn good helmsmanship and skippering  on a behemoth that takes 20 seconds to react to helm and sail trim inputs.  A small craft like the Moth or Flying Junior gives you instant feedback when you move the tiller or trim sails.   

 
Too true. Hub and I cut our teeth on Hobies.
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 12:04pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

thanks!  it's been a long time coming this one.

 
Well deserved.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 12:02pm

 Coaxial wrote:

Congrats, B!{#Cheers}

 
thanks!  it's been a long time coming this one.
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 11:59am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Spithill very gracious in defeat. Good on him. He got my respect. 

 
Congrats, B!{#Cheers}
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 11:55am

Spithill very gracious in defeat. Good on him. He got my respect. 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 5:12am

 aflanigan wrote:

When I was regularly racing larger boats 25-35 foot, the people who wanted to be more competitive were told to buy a dinghy and race it. It's hard to learn good helmsmanship and skippering  on a behemoth that takes 20 seconds to react to helm and sail trim inputs.  A small craft like the Moth or Flying Junior gives you instant feedback when you move the tiller or trim sails.   

 
I'd love to have one of the modern moths and a place to sail it 

 
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 4:41am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
When I was regularly racing larger boats 25-35 foot, the people who wanted to be more competitive were told to buy a dinghy and race it. It's hard to learn good helmsmanship and skippering  on a behemoth that takes 20 seconds to react to helm and sail trim inputs.  A small craft like the Moth or Flying Junior gives you instant feedback when you move the tiller or trim sails.   
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 1:58am

oh, and there's this.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2017 - 11:23pm

 aflanigan wrote:

Anyway, that's my boring physics' major theory on what's going on in this year's cup finals. 

 
excellent take on it. The new cycling concept is a complete innovations package. The biggest advantage being that Tuke (one of the grinders and equal sailing partner of Burling) is now hands free and trims the foils. Ashby trims the wing and Burling steers the boat. Looks like they've got it pretty well sussed out. 

The Oracle boat is now at least as fast as ETNZ but they haven't got their beast quite under control. As I understand it, Spithill is both steering the boat and trimming the foils. On top of that he has complained about a couple of software glitches letting him down (which probably won't go down too well in the marketing department of Oracle.)

But on top of that, the start of the second race must have really bruised Spithill's almost diamond-hard ego. He was simply out-maneuvered.  


aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 25, 2017 - 12:53pm

So once again, just like four years ago, Team Oracle USA finds themselves on the brink of elimination against Emirates Team New Zealand despite entering the finals with a 1 point advantage due to having won the challengers' cup round robin racing at the beginning of the month. Unlike four years ago, I don't think Oracle is going to pull off yet another historic upset against New Zealand
Both teams have had their share of mistakes, but it seems that it is mainly boatspeed which will be the undoing of Oracle.  The single most telling statistic is the differential in "flytime" between the two boats. New Zealand has been consistently leading in this statistic throughout the finals.

Flytime refers to the percentage of the time the boat is suspended entirely on its hydrofoils and has no portion of its "hull" in contact with (being wetted by) the water. New Zealand has figured out how to minimize contact between the boat hull surface and the water, regardless of how many tackes or gybes they perform, what the wind speed is, etc. In simple sailors' language, they're able to "get it up and keep it up" better than the Americans.{#Wink} 

There are two possible explanations for this disparity: Technology, and technique. One, the other, or a combination is the answer to why.

Technique was the obvious answer four years ago: whichever team was quicker in learning how to handle these beasts for maximum Velocity Made Good  combined with maximizing boatspeed through the water, which obviously entails keeping up on the foils as much as possible to minimize wetted surface area and thus aerodynamic drag due to the water. They wouldn't be using foils if they did not provide a significant advantage in boatspeed through the water by reducing drag/wetted surface area. Somehow Team Oracle finally figured out this combination in 2013 and was able to match team New Zealand. This time, they haven't found an answer.

But if I had to place a bet, I'm thinking the reason the Kiwis are dominating flytime, and thus dominating the finals, may be more based on technological/boat design differences than differences in boat handling technique. The reason why has to do with one of the more obvious differences between New Zealand's boat and Oracle's.  Take a look at a video of the races between these two boats and see if you notice any obvious difference (besides colors and shapes) between the two boats. Hint: Have a look at the guys in the middle of the boat and what they're doing. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Still need help?:  Here, look at these:
 



See the difference? New Zealand's grinders are all bicycle racers astride foot driven pedals. Oracle has the traditional hand crank grinding pedestals.

Big deal, you say. So what? Bear with me.

Grinders perform a job as old as sailing itself. They provide muscle power not to propel the boat directly, but to do the work of sail trim, raising anchor, etc. Heaving on a line, taking a turn at the handspike of  a capstan, is a time honored job of the ordinary seaman. The grinders on the AC boats are performing the 21st century version of this task.

 Sailing races, particularly at such a highly competitive level, are often won or lost based on incremental differences. Differences in boat speed, differences in efficiency of trimming sails/wings, differences in helm technique, etc. In terms of the difference between Team New Zealand's boat and Oracle USA, hand cranking to produce horsepower is not as efficient as pumping pedals to perform the same task, essentially because the legs are stronger. That's why you don't see people on hand propelled bikes winning the Tour de France, or for that matter, the Tour de Camp Granola. But what does this have to do with getting more consistent flytime?

The grinders are basically operating hydraulic motors which pressurize a hydraulic fluid and store pressurized fluid in a "battery" (accumulator) that is used to perform not only the job of controlling sail angle, but also controlling the angle of attach of the hydrofoils, and deploying/retracting them on either side of the boat as desired. When you watch the Kiwis tack, for example, it seems to me that their foil control is quicker; they have the new foil down and angled correctly and the "old" foil on the windward side retracted out of the way almost instantaneously. They can do this consistently, even when doing a series of quick tacks/gybes, and I suspect it is because they have either a greater amount of stored energy stashed in their accumulator system, or a quicker recovery time to recharge the accumulator to maximum pressure for the next maneuver.  Shaving one or two seconds off the time it takes to "switch" foils and have them at the optimum angle of attack might not seem like much, but the lost time/speed accumulates over the course of a seven leg race involving dozens of tacks. It may also help them with rapid sail trim reducing speed loss during a tack or gybe, which again helps you stay up on the foils.

Anyway, that's my boring physics' major theory on what's going on in this year's cup finals. 
sunybuny

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Location: The West & Best Coast of FLA
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 1, 2017 - 8:34am

 aflanigan wrote:
Excited to have the 35th America's cup taking place live in EST on tv.

Interesting that they have a defender team from Oracle mixing it up with other challengers on the AC 45 boats. Would LOVE to get a ride on one of the AC 45 boats one day. Maybe we can tie that in to an RPeep meetup? (HobieJoe, let's drum up support. Perhaps also a friendly wager on the finals?)
35th America's Cup

 
Go fast!!!   {#Cheers}
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2017 - 8:17am

Excited to have the 35th America's cup taking place live in EST on tv.

Interesting that they have a defender team from Oracle mixing it up with other challengers on the AC 45 boats. Would LOVE to get a ride on one of the AC 45 boats one day. Maybe we can tie that in to an RPeep meetup? (HobieJoe, let's drum up support. Perhaps also a friendly wager on the finals?)
35th America's Cup
geoff_morphini

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 1:37pm

 haresfur wrote:

At least I can go back to laughing at the Kiwis instead of calling them our cousins across the ditch.

 
WTF!
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:51pm

 hobiejoe wrote:

We?, We?
 
This is a competion for sailors, and, briefly, John Kostecki...and that means wind power, Cap'n Diesel.
 
Turns out that the 20kt windspeed limit that interrupted racing so often wasn't because of the fear of structural failure of the vessels, but the unproven behaviour of hydrofoils at boat speeds of more than 50kts, speeds these things were theoretically capable of. So 40+kts was the safe option. Yee, and indeed, Haa.
 

 
/teasing motorboaters {#Heartkiss}

 
So will we get 50 kts next year?  Kudos to all the sailors, handling those boats in those conditions deserves awe and respect.

 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:45pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

That's the thing. The sailors (who are like you and me, well, kind of) have somehow managed to convince the rich boys to part with their dough to bankroll all their fun.
Clever.

 
Yeah, most of the people involved aren't all that rich, they are just doing something really cool. And If not for the billionaires, I don't think there is a lot of market for 70 ft, 45 Knot sailboats.  I'm  just happy a business guy thought of the opportunity to bring it in close to shore. Hope this starts a trend.

Small sailboats are easily accessible to most even in the landlocked states (hey HJ, I have put my time in on a sunfish, doesn't that count for something?).  Seeing  the big spectacle can get people excited about the sport. 

Sort of like a lot of the things Jeff Bezos throws his money at - it's a lot of folly, but if not for these guys who would do it? 
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:03pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

G'day cuz.

 
We're all best mates when NZ is beating someone else in sport or (to be serious for a second), when something important is happening like the Christchurch earthquake.  And Oz is trying to be better about remembering the NZ part of ANZAC.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 7:39pm

 haresfur wrote:

At least I can go back to laughing at the Kiwis instead of calling them our cousins across the ditch.

 
G'day cuz.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 7:34pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

It's difficult for me to get excited about a sport accessible only to people who's annual income is more than I'll make in my lifetime. Sorry. {#Sorry}

 
That's the thing. The sailors (who are like you and me, well, kind of) have somehow managed to convince the rich boys to part with their dough to bankroll all their fun.
Clever.
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