I am so glad to see this thread back in the RAFT. I was getting so bored of the staidness of the  Obama-is-Hitler, HealthSnare and RightWingPutz threads.

 rosedraws wrote: 
Do you think that the men who jumped out of their office windows because they lost all their money were already suicidal? Material goods are not what make people happy; in fact one of the happiest group of people are dirt poor.

Having children doesn't mean people are happy, it only means they are having sex, and not even necessarily consensual on the woman's part.

When people lose control of their lives, they are in so much pain, they may resort to something drastic. I wrote this post originally awhile ago, and I am happy to see that there doesn't appear a huge increase in this kind of violence.

 manbirdexperiment wrote: 


Here's a story:

I have a girlfriend who is friends with a Catholic Priest who runs a mission in Brasil, and she travels down there every couple years to do what she can to help. 

The people in this Parish in Brazil, who were being helped by the mission, were desperately poor.  (Every Christmas I give gifts to the people of the parish in leu of gifts to my family members).  These people need things like: metal roofs for their shacks... mosquito netting... a book bag... chickens so they can have eggs.  The most amazing story:  The mission has a soup kitchen, but sometimes they only have bread, but no soup.  The children of neighboring villages would walk 2 hours to collect their one Dinner roll, then they'd walk home.  They were happy to have a dinner roll!

What amazed me about my friends stories, is that these people continued to have lives, and fall in love, and make children.  They have lives just like we do.  Their struggles are actually very similar — fighting with family, heartbreak in relationships, a desire to have a fulfilling spiritual life, not enough money to buy the things they want...

But the fact that they have children shows that they can love their life as it is, and have hope that it will also be good for their children.  Amazing.

I agree that people who commit suicide usually have some problem in their brain chemistry (several first-hand accounts to attest to this).

 hippiechick wrote: 
That's not how it works. Billions of people on this planet live in what amerikans would consider desperate, deplorable and unbearable conditions. Yet they don't all commit suicide. In fact they continue to reproduce. People who commit suicide usually have psychological problems which allow their brains to over ride the built-in will to live that is inherent almost all life forms. But that's just my theory. 

 bokey wrote: 
You said that, not me.

 hippiechick wrote: 
NRA members are Hitler.

 steeler wrote: 
Hundreds of Chicago school children have been killed by guns. We have uncontrollable gang wars here. You want to shoot for recreational purposes, I can get that. However, the same people that support the NRA are against abortion, but they don't seem to be concerned about the number of kids dying from gun shot.

Supreme Court is taking a case out of Chicago for purpose of determining whether last term's Second Amendment ruling applies to the state and local laws.  Last term's historic decision struck down a District of Columbia prohibition on handguns. Chicago's laws are similar to those in the District.  The attorney who argued last term's case is the lead attorney on this challenge. He also is planning on challenging District laws again, this time arguing that restrictions on carrying guns in public violate the Second Amendment.      

omg, they just said on the news that there just was another gun range suicide here. this will be the 4th incident within a few months.  next thing you know, they're going to start shutting down all the ranges here. 

 Xeric wrote:
 
There are many many many more legal obstacles to owning firearms now than then. You could order a handgun and ammo from the Sears Roebuck catalog and the Post Office would bring it to your house, no questions asked. Claiming they are more readily available today is beyond silly, it's dishonest.

You could also order laudanum thru the mail until 1914 and barbiturates until 1945. There have never been any shortage of toxic substances up to the task, sharp things to cut oneself with, water to drown in, rope to hang from, or tall places to jump off of. The causes of suicide are inside the people who do it.

 MrsHobieJoe wrote: 
Sad indeed.  And, of course, the vast majority of those who make that decision will do so completely without reference to whether or not a gun might be readily available.  

I think—and I am not without some clue here from some dark days of my own—that the decision to take one's own life is a separate one indeed from the decision about what means by which to do so.

Just me. . . . 

 hippiechick wrote: 
Pills?  Who knows—that's not the topic I had in mind.  Easier access to guns than in the 20's?  Well, I'm not gonna Google that one down, but I doubt it—handguns, possibly, but firearms in general were, I'd bet my pistol, at least as common as today, given the more rural and agrarian society of the 20's.

 Xeric wrote: 
Maybe, but people have easier access to pills and guns now. Only time will tell.

 hippiechick wrote: 
Perhaps.  But a quick Google says that the suicide rate during the Great Depression increased from 14 to 17 per 100,000.  An increase, yes, and nothing to sneeze at—but then again, not a great leap.  So to speak.

 zipper wrote: 
Nope, not required to rent a gun, only to purchase one. 

The first incident was a woman and her 20 year old son...they rented guns and while he was shooting, she came up behind him, shot him in the back of the head, then shot herself.  The notes she left behind are scary...very, very troubling and dark.  She thought she was the anti-christ and had to kill her son to "save him".  The next two incidents probably happened because the people, who would have committed suicide anyway, regardless of where they were, probably saw how much publicity the first incident got and figured they'd go out with some notoriety.  I believe all of them had rented guns at the ranges.

This is a short article about the first two incidents, which happened at the same range

Another article

The form asks if you are a felon, or if you have ever been deemed medically defective. The trouble is Shoot Straight can't verify if the medical information provided is true.

Jaeger has asked FDLE to run same background checks for rentals as it does with gun purchases.

Shoot Straight has even offered to cover the cost. But the FDLE said no.

FDLE representatives said state and federal laws would have to change before they could do background checks for gun rentals.

Shoot Straight will now only lease weapons to those who have a concealed weapons permit. 

 

Article on the latest incident at a different range

 Lazy8 wrote: 
My theory is that this will become much more commonplace, as more people lose their livelihoods and their belongings. People will suffer unbearable anxiety and depression and respond by killing themselves and others.

 kysmet wrote: 
This played a role in the Virginia Tech massacre too. The debate over this started up again but nothing was resolved.

Not everyone who contemplates suicide has a documented history of mental illness, not everyone with mental health issues is a suicide risk. And anyone determined enough will find a way.

These are extremely rare events—that's why they make the news. I'm not sure how much good can done here balanced against the harm of further stigmatizing people with mental illness and creating yet another incentive to avoid seeking treatment.

 kysmet wrote: 
Seriously? Background checks aren't allowed? Allowed? I'd think they'd be required for this type of business. Common sense should override confidentiality.

Re these particular instances in Florida, this is the first I've heard of them. wtf?

I'm sure a lot of you heard the story a couple months ago about the woman who shot and killed her son, then herself at a shooting range here in central Florida.  A couple weeks later, a guy shot and killed himself at the same range.  Last week, a woman shot herself in the head at another range (not sure of her condition or if she died).  The state does not allow background checks on people in order to rent a gun so these ranges have stopped renting guns until the state allows it.

I wonder how much good that would do anyway because these people are more likely mentally ill (the first woman had a very long history of mental health issues) than criminals and I'm pretty sure a background check will not allow access to their mental health history because that's confidential.

Thoughts?

 bokey wrote: 

A friend of mine is a S&W guy, and he and his wife both have 9mm M&P's. He used to have a .40 cal Sigma, I believe, but traded it in for his M&P. I've shot all of his a few times, and, while they're okay, I definitely prefer other manufacturers. I love my Walther P99, and have also been impressed with Sig Sauer and Kahr when I've rented them at the shooting range. Not really a Glock fan, either, but that's just me.