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black321

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Location: An earth without maps
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Posted: Jul 22, 2025 - 2:13pm

Interesting discussion. Builds some of the internal discussions i've had on the failures of capitalism, the conflicts between self interest and cooperation as it relates to the invisible hand. 
The idea that some widely accepted truths about our economy are merely assumptions—ones that may actually distort how the economy is meant to function

As discussed, alone, a selfish organism outcompetes. But, as a group, those w less selfish individuals outcompete. Selfishness undermines group welfare. It becomes a cancer - a selfish cell in the body.

The problem isn’t with markets themselves, but with the way they’re structured. History shows that government control of production and supply can be just as problematic—if not worse—than the issues we see in today’s capitalist systems.
Rather than corporatism, whereby fewer companies dominate production/supply, and fewer employees dominate the payroll (wage gaps), we need more coops, esops…to deal with the problem of individual selfishness and excessive accumulation of wealth.

The idea that ‘greed is good’ doesn’t have to define capitalism or free markets. But we—and more specifically, figures within the Reagan administration—did just that when they framed a company’s primary goal as maximizing shareholder wealth. In other words, a bad ideology was created and reinforced by us.


R_P

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Posted: Jul 14, 2025 - 3:27pm

Racket
Trump touts weapon sales to NATO for Ukraine and threatens Russia with 100% tariffs
President Trump on Monday threatened to punish Russia with heavy tariffs on countries that trade with Moscow if the Kremlin fails to reach a ceasefire deal with Ukraine by September, while promising Kyiv billions of dollars worth of military equipment.

"We're going to be doing very severe tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days," Trump said during a White House meeting with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte. "Tariffs at about 100%, you'd call them secondary tariffs."

It was his latest warning against Russian President Vladimir Putin, as Trump becomes increasingly frustrated with the Kremlin leader over his continued war in Ukraine.

President Trump explained that NATO countries would acquire U.S.-made weapons, including Patriot air defense missile systems, and that those countries would provide them to Ukraine. (...)

black321

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Posted: Jul 14, 2025 - 7:11am

Yes, seems like AI or just very poorly written? 

The Invisible Hand is self interest, not greed...unless your economic education comes from Hollywood. 
Greed—whether monetary or political—has been an unavoidable issue of every economic system...none of which are 100% capitalist or socialist. 
There are unique problems with capitalism
A hundred years ago, movements emerged to address some of these issues—through unions, OSHA, FTC, banking rules, social programs.
Paradoxically, as socialist states adopted more liberal market economies, capitalist countries seem to be dismantling the very protections those movements fought for.
Perhaps the biggest problem is the excess accumulation of wealth...which is becoming a bigger problem as a result of this dismantling.


oldviolin

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Posted: Jul 9, 2025 - 7:45am

 R_P wrote:
Free Markets, Fixed Beliefs
Market fundamentalism posits a transformative alchemy, wherein the base metal of selfishness is transmuted into the golden calf of social progress. This ideology is predicated on the notion that deliberate coordination, or central planning, is emphatically unnecessary and, more to the point, deleterious, as it disincentives animal spirits. The almighty “invisible hand” possesses inherent wisdom, rendering any institutional means of oversight not only superfluous but actively detrimental to its salvational promises.



Idealized postulates or AI or both? The vocab is the clue.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 9, 2025 - 7:31am

Free Markets, Fixed Beliefs
Market fundamentalism posits a transformative alchemy, wherein the base metal of selfishness is transmuted into the golden calf of social progress. This ideology is predicated on the notion that deliberate coordination, or central planning, is emphatically unnecessary and, more to the point, deleterious, as it disincentives animal spirits. The almighty “invisible hand” possesses inherent wisdom, rendering any institutional means of oversight not only superfluous but actively detrimental to its salvational promises.

These propositions constitute not merely an oversimplification, but a resounding misrepresentation of the actuality of capitalist exchange relations. Consequently, economic activity stemming from such zealous adherence engenders and exacerbates social inequalities, precisely because it deliberately disregards prevailing social conditions. By prioritizing abstract economic models over tangible human experience, it fails to account for injustices and vulnerabilities faced by populations.

In a system where selfishness reigns supreme, the principal aims to maximize their gain, while the agent endeavors to maximize their own. This divergence in objectives, by definition, generates social tension. Two fundamental concepts, not mutually exclusive, elucidate these imbalances: information asymmetry and asymmetric power.

kcar

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Posted: Jul 8, 2025 - 8:24pm

 islander wrote:


Jesus, even the headline - "


Trump says new tariff deadline 'not 100 percent firm'



"

why would anyone bother with a trade deal?  The R is pretty questionable, but the rest of this century is going to belong to the balance of that acronym.


As economist Justin Wolfers keeps pointing out, why would businesses invest in new manufacturing facilities if they can't be sure that tariffs (and thus increased prices) are here to stay? Those kind of investments call for 50-100 year forecasts according to Wolfers. 

So this tariff tango dance isn't driving manufacturing back to the US. 
Proclivities

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Posted: Jul 8, 2025 - 12:05pm

 islander wrote:
Jesus, even the headline - "
Trump says new tariff deadline 'not 100 percent firm'
why would anyone bother with a trade deal?  The R is pretty questionable, but the rest of this century is going to belong to the balance of that acronym.

Taco Time
“It’s always been Aug. 1. That’s all, paying it. A statement was being put out today, and I put it out just to make it clear. It wasn’t a change. It was Aug. 1,” Trump said, despite having to sign a new executive order Monday to extend the July 9 deadline.
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
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Posted: Jul 8, 2025 - 11:57am

 R_P wrote:

Jesus, even the headline - "


Trump says new tariff deadline 'not 100 percent firm'



"

why would anyone bother with a trade deal?  The R is pretty questionable, but the rest of this century is going to belong to the balance of that acronym.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 7, 2025 - 11:32am

Incentivize BRICS membership
Trump slaps allies Japan, South Korea with 25% tariffs
rgio

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Posted: Jul 2, 2025 - 7:37am

So the real race is on....

Get the BBB through Congress and into law before the shit-show that will be the US economy this fall hits.

The USD experienced it's largest devaluation during the first 6 months of a year since 1973.

The US shed jobs in June (down 33k) vs. an expectation of gaining (^115K).

Prices everywhere are about to climb.  Amazon, Walmart, and every other company on the planet is looking at higher costs.  My electricity just jumped 16% this month.  Every company around me is going to have to pass that on.

All of the stupidity of the Trump Tariff's are about to slam the US.  Trump's goal is to rush through a tax cut for the rich while reducing services for the most needy ASAP... 'cause the shit is about to get real for a lot of his base (and half of the country).

Any Republican in the house who wants to hold onto their seats next fall had better think long and hard.... Cause the BBB is about to destroy your chances.  The anger by next summer is going to be huge, when everyone realizes that Trump has destroyed the country by selling "great again" while stealing everything he could get his hands on.
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
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Posted: Jun 10, 2025 - 7:18am

This is on Fox Business (found link on FoxNews)...   If you want to read something amusing... read the comments.  The MAGA cult won't even accept facts from Fox when they don't support the cult narrative.

Consumers are paying the costs for Trump's tariffs: New York Fed

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently released a survey that found businesses are passing some or all of the cost of higher tariffs onto consumers through higher prices.

...

Manufacturers estimated the average tariff rate they paid on their imports was about 35%, an increase of about 25 percentage points from six months ago; service firms reported an average tariff rate of 26%, up 17 points in the last six months. Most of those firms have raised prices on customers by passing through some or all of the cost of higher tariffs.

"About three-quarters of businesses facing tariff-induced cost increases in both the manufacturing and service sectors passed along at least some of these higher costs to their customers by raising prices," the New York Fed wrote.


R_P

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Posted: Jun 6, 2025 - 9:17am

 islander wrote:
Party of fiscal responsibility...  

... when there's a Democratic administration.

black321

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Posted: Jun 6, 2025 - 7:32am

Simple easy to understand discussion of deficits/debt. The problem and answer are both simple...
When Does the National Debt Become Genuinely Bad?

The U.S. national debt is nearly $30 trillion — but is that bad? WSJ explains how the debt affects everyone and when it becomes unsustainable. Photo Illustration: Kent Nishimura/Getty Images

https://archive.ph/DVrT4

and another on trade deficits

Trump Is Waging War on the U.S. Trade Deficit—But Does It Need Fixing?
President Trump’s broad tariff rollout takes aim at the U.S. trade deficit, which he calls a “national emergency.” Here’s how the trade deficit works, how tariffs affect it—and why economists say it isn't necessarily bad for the economy. Illustration: Madeline Marshal

https://archive.ph/2oH6N


islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2025 - 8:25am

 black321 wrote:

Look at the cuts/additions chart at the bottom...WTF!? 

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/hou...



Party of fiscal responsibility...  
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jun 3, 2025 - 8:05am

 black321 wrote:


"How did you go bankrupt?" "Gradually, then suddenly."


 
not funny, I guess. 
As a result, OBBBA would not only keep spending levels high, but would also add $3 trillion to already high levels of national debt – or $5 trillion if extended. With debt already approaching record levels, this additional borrowing could prove very harmful. The Senate should work to improve the bill to expand the spending reductions, limit the revenue reductions, and ensure the bill reduces rather than adds to the national debt.

black321

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2025 - 8:02am



"How did you go bankrupt?" "Gradually, then suddenly."


black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2025 - 7:59am

Look at the cuts/additions chart at the bottom...WTF!? 

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/hou...
R_P

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Posted: Jun 1, 2025 - 7:41am

Why the Left Should REJECT Ezra Klein's "Abundance" Garbage

Mentioned: The Real Path to Abundance
R_P

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Posted: May 30, 2025 - 10:07am

Trade Court Invalidates Trump’s Sweeping Tariffs; Have We Reached Peak Trump?
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: May 20, 2025 - 9:05am

 rgio wrote:

Here is a good summary of how tariffs are about to kill American businesses across every industry... all based on a fantasy that anything can be made in America.

NPR Planet Money - The 145% Tariff



PM has had some really good takes on all of this. Typical for them. Planet money is included in the NPR+ bundle of podcast extras for $100/year. $8/mo is worth it for PM alone, plus you get a lot of other content. The Divided Dial has been a really informative listen from On the Media lately. And since they are likely to lose a portion of their funding due to stupidity at the government level it's good to chip in for extra support.
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