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Servo

Servo Avatar

Location: Down on the Farm
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 12:01pm

 RichardPrins wrote:
I was taught in civics class that it's in your best interest to remain polite to cops. That's obviously not the same as being subservient or in awe of authority. Even if that might be pragmatic.
 
As a general rule, when you're cornered with no hope of escape, out-manned, out-gunned and don't have any form of backup on the way, your best strategy is to say and do whatever it takes to keep yourself alive until you're rescued, or you find a much better opportunity to fight your way to freedom.


MsJudi

MsJudi Avatar

Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:57am

 RichardPrins wrote:


Border nazi: "If you’re told to do something, do it without asking the reason.”

 
This makes me ill. I listened to the whole thing and I'm ashamed of us.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:57am

 islander wrote:

And who is the better rebel - The guy who takes a beating for defying the badge at the end of a stupid policy, or the guy who gets waved on with enough Cuban rum and cigars to last through the next weekend?

 
In the three incidents I was involved with, my refusal to roll over was the difference between getting a traffic citation for something I didn't do, or not getting a citation for something I didn't do.  Those three incidents have given me the perception that traffic cops will walk all over you if allowed to do so.  Knowing I've not done anything wrong and not playing their bullshit intimidation game has so far worked pretty well for me, thanks.
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:56am

 islander wrote:

And who is the better rebel - The guy who takes a beating for defying the badge at the end of a stupid policy, or the guy who gets waved on with enough Cuban rum and cigars to last through the next weekend?

 
I vote for cuban rum guy. 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:51am

 RichardPrins wrote:

Entirely reasonable.

I was taught in civics class that it's in your best interest to remain polite to cops. That's obviously not the same as being subservient or in awe of authority. Even if that might be pragmatic. It's quite healthy to have a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak, while remaining reasonable and polite. For the rest, fuck 'm.

 
And who is the better rebel - The guy who takes a beating for defying the badge at the end of a stupid policy, or the guy who gets waved on with enough Cuban rum and cigars to last through the next weekend?
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:46am

 oldslabsides wrote:
I have a very difficult time rolling over and taking it up the backside when I know I haven't done anything wrong.  Call it a character flaw.
 
Entirely reasonable.

I was taught in civics class that it's in your best interest to remain polite to cops. That's obviously not the same as being subservient or in awe of authority. Even if that might be pragmatic. It's quite healthy to have a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak, while remaining reasonable and polite. For the rest, fuck 'm.
Servo

Servo Avatar

Location: Down on the Farm
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:42am

 RichardPrins wrote:


Border nazi: "If you’re told to do something, do it without asking the reason.”

 
Since when does recoiling from an armed thug trying to grab you constitute "assault"?  {#Rolleyes}

Meanwhile thousands of big rigs full of radioactive ceramics and narcotics, and driven by meth-crazed maniacs are flowing freely back and forth across US borders unimpeded because of NAFTA.


Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:21am

Blind Man Tasered By Cops Who Mistook Cane For Samurai Sword


Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:17am

 hippiechick wrote:
I broke into a dog park last week. It was a Forest Preserve park, with a big heavy lock on the gate, but I decided to go over the low fence, like many others before me. $50 for a pass to the dog park, WTF?

Then I realized, if I got busted, I would probably get arrested for trespassing, they would find the small amount of happy weed in my pocket and they would take my dog away. Because no one wants to warn any more, they want you to know that they are tough. It's gotten out of hand. We definitely are living in a police state. But I think we always have been, it just wasn't so obvious.

 

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:17am

 oldslabsides wrote:

I have a very difficult time rolling over and taking it up the backside when I know I haven't done anything wrong.  Call it a character flaw.

 
There is a great divide between rolling over and 'taking it', and being combative and bringing about your own problems. I think the guy in the video was well within his rights the whole time, but you could also see it escalating while he was in his car. There was a point where he could have made a joke or two and dialed it all back, but he persisted. He certainly didn't deserve what happened to him, and it was in no way right, but he also could have prevented it.  

I've crossed the Canadian border many times and I've had varied experiences in doing so. I've had agents in a good mood joke around - them: "anything you'd like to declare?" me:"no" them:"a full week on the boat, you must have had time to take care of it all, hahaha". I've had agents just eager to move me along - going into Canada at 4:50pm on Canada day is a good idea! And I've had agents that were clearly having a bad day and looking for a fight or an excuse to take some one's car apart. When you get the angry guy, you sit straight, look them in the eye, and answer their questions. If there is ambiguity you ask for clarification, you say 'sir', and you don't antagonize.  I also don't poke rattle snakes or hornets nests with a stick, I don't think that makes me weak in any way.

This is our new reality. We don't have to like it, and we can fight against it in many meaningful ways. The way this guy chose was not meaningful, and in the end did a disservice to him and his wife. The only point he made was that border crossings have become a joke and that agents can be asshats when provoked. I don't think that one really needed to be emphasized.  
hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:14am

I broke into a dog park last week. It was a Forest Preserve park, with a big heavy lock on the gate, but I decided to go over the low fence, like many others before me. $50 for a pass to the dog park, WTF?

Then I realized, if I got busted, I would probably get arrested for trespassing, they would find the small amount of happy weed in my pocket and they would take my dog away. Because no one wants to warn any more, they want you to know that they are tough. It's gotten out of hand. We definitely are living in a police state. But I think we always have been, it just wasn't so obvious.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:09am

 oldslabsides wrote:

I have a very difficult time rolling over and taking it up the backside when I know I haven't done anything wrong.  Call it a character flaw.

 

I understand. I desire peace and ease of going through life so much for me it is easy but I know that most people do have trouble with that.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:04am

 sirdroseph wrote:


I have found that being extra polite, biting my tongue and following instructions has worked quite well for me in any dealings that I have had with the authorities. Then again I am a white male with short hair and no tatoos or piercings so regardless of what anyone tells you that helps a lot.{#Yes}

 
I also use this tactic in business, and prior to Mrs. Islander I used it to great effect with the ladies. 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:04am

 sirdroseph wrote:


I have found that being extra polite, biting my tongue and following instructions has worked quite well for me in any dealings that I have had with the authorities. Then again I am a white male with short hair and no tatoos or piercings so regardless of what anyone tells you that helps a lot.{#Yes}

 
I have a very difficult time rolling over and taking it up the backside when I know I haven't done anything wrong.  Call it a character flaw.
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 11:02am

 oldslabsides wrote:

Probably also depends on the particular organization.

There are a few decent cops out there, but given my infrequent encounters with cops my perspective is that far too many of them aren't.

 

I have found that being extra polite, biting my tongue and following instructions has worked quite well for me in any dealings that I have had with the authorities. Then again I am a white male with short hair and no tatoos or piercings so regardless of what anyone tells you that helps a lot.{#Yes}
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 10:56am

 cc_rider wrote:
I think law enforcement officers are trained to escalate situations. I really do. Apparently they are trained to goad you into an action, ANY action, they can use to arrest you. I have been subjected to it more than once.

 
I don't think they are trained, but I do think that a not insignificant portion of them enjoy the chance to flex their authority.

I think the majority of them are trying to do a difficult job under pretty poor circumstances, and more often than not they succeed. But the internal politics of protecting their brothers, and the occasional very public episodes of their failings (like this one), contribute to an atmosphere of distrust. That combined with the general paranoia of our current times makes these things far more likely than they need to be.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 10:49am

 Proclivities wrote:

I guess it depends on the location and the situation.  Escalation usually will require a lot more explanations and paperwork later on, so it may not always be in their best interests to have things escalate.

 
Probably also depends on the particular organization.

There are a few decent cops out there, but given my infrequent encounters with cops my perspective is that far too many of them aren't.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 10:46am

 cc_rider wrote:
I think law enforcement officers are trained to escalate situations. I really do. Apparently they are trained to goad you into an action, ANY action, they can use to arrest you. I have been subjected to it more than once.
 
I guess it depends on the location and the situation.  Escalation usually will require a lot more explanations and paperwork later on, so it may not always be in their best interests to have things escalate.


Orion6

Orion6 Avatar

Location: NOVA
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 10:40am

I have to give credit where it's due...I was stopped this morning for going 38 in a 25, and the cop was visibly frustrated with the disregard of the speed limit on our street (rightly so). He was kind enough to tell me to slow down and sent me on my way. He had every right to write me ticket, but he didn't. For me, that's more effective in getting me to watch my speed than anything else. I'm grateful to him for that.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 17, 2012 - 10:37am

 cc_rider wrote:
I think law enforcement officers are trained to escalate situations. I really do. Apparently they are trained to goad you into an action, ANY action, they can use to arrest you. I have been subjected to it more than once.

 

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