ScottFromWyoming wrote: 
Merry Stumbo!

 hippiechick wrote: 
Tom Tomorrow's right, of course. "Happy Holidays" is a perfectly valid greeting, not "PC" at all... it's just a blanket term that in my book covers Thanksgiving thru New Year's and any holiday or religious observance you care to include. But that does not mean a person should never say "Merry Christmas," either. Evidently if I say "Merry Christmas" to you you'll bristle. But what if next February, someone says to you, "Gung Hay Fat Choy!"? Do you get irritated then and say "I'm not Chinese so can it, Buster!"? No.
 
Okay I'm done you get the point. Or not.

 RichardPrins wrote: 
thank you........  and amen !  " ...down your solid gold sofa."   hahahahahha

 beamends wrote: 

 beamends wrote: 

 beamends wrote: 

99% and this whitey know that he is a putrid POS whose every word is a reeking lie & who is paid multi-millions to spin his web of lies by Zionist Israel-Firster Rupert Beelzebub Mordoch.

 Proclivities wrote: 
and 99% of Muslims think Glenn Beck is an idiot.

Glenn Beck said he thinks ten percent of all Muslims are terrorists.

 hobiejoe wrote: 

and MrsHJ's crush.

 RichardPrins wrote: 
Marcus Brigstocke, Budleigh Saltertons' favourite grumpy bastard.

 RichardPrins wrote: 
Right on!

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Thanks for that, you got the core of my intent.  My reply took on a life of its own as I was somewhat surprised by the info I found for references.  It went in a slightly different direction than I started out with and started to write itself. 

Morals come from within, they cannot be legislated, that is a mistake still made over and over again.  One can be moral without being religious as well.  It comes from respect of self and others and from acceptance of circumstances that may or may not change with the passage of time.  Acceptance is much different from surrender, though the two are often confused.

A quote about acceptance that the wife put up in view of the puter screen many years ago :

Acceptance does not mean I have to agree, I don't have to approve,
I don't even have to like it.  I just have to accept.

——  unknown

 kurtster wrote:

I less than you. And I'm not Winter (tho on religious matters we're on the same page) so I'm going to give this a shot then hit the sack. Forgive me for not quoting you verbatim; your post was too long for the editor and I'm too tired to cut&paste tonight.

You seem to have your heart in the right place regarding religious liberty: that government should be neutral towards all, including (hopefully—you weren't explicit on this point) towards none. Neutrality is not the same as hostility, tho there are those that argue that. They're wrong. Even when they're in power there is very little they can legally do to promote religion or punish its absence, either a particular religion or religion in general.

George HW Bush declared that he didn't regard atheists as full citizens, but his administration paid only lip service to his belief. He pissed a lot of atheists off but really didn't do anything concrete to act on it. His son did (via support for faith-based organizations; essentially outsourcing some welfare programs to them) but he did it with broad-based political support. The office he started is still going under Barack Obama and has had a few judicial course corrections.

The law on public religious displays has been settled for some time, public officials have learned to deal with it, and there isn't much controversy over them any more. Just to correct one point: there is no such thing as a national holiday in the US. There are federal holidays (days federal employees get off) but federal law doesn't recognize holidays for the private sector or state public employees. It can't—that'd be unconstitutional.

So in real terms there isn't much for you to be railing against; you seem more upset by the tone of the debate (what there is of it—Madelyn Murray O'Hair has been dead these 15 years, and no one has really taken up her mantle of hair-trigger outrage at public expressions of religion since) (and very few atheists miss her or her combative tone) rather than the substance.

Yes, there are still "evangelical atheists"—people who take offense at the mention of religion and get in the public's face over it. They are trying to carve out space for themselves in the public sphere, to be treated with respect and dignity...even when they act like thin-skinned jackasses about it and don't really demonstrate that respect to others. If it's any consolation most of us (atheists) find them every bit as obnoxious as most religious folk find the sanctimonious asshats picketing funerals, or Jews who get bent out of shape about being wished a merry Christmas.

Feel free to wish me a merry Christmas. Sing me a Christmas carol (unless it's Jingle Bells—then be prepared to catch a snowball!) and I'll join in. I love Christmas music. Wish me a happy Hanukkah or Eid or Kwanza or Moon Festival or whatever—I'll take it in the spirit offered. I don't mind if you make a display of your faith so long as you don't make me join you. There's room for everybody on this planet.

But don't make my kid sit out a Christmas play, or single him out for abuse or ridicule in school, or tolerate religious bullying (yes, my kids have had to put up with this in public schools). Tell me I'm unfit for jury duty or that my testimony in court can't be trusted or that I'm an immoral person ( howdy friends!) and I'll likely get my back up. Simple, no? We can get along. And we do.

 buddy wrote: 
Good to see you, Buddy. 

 hippiechick wrote: 
A "practicing" christian invariably is one who through a lifelong habit suffers through the weekly "happy hour" at his/her "fast food for the soul" corner church because 'that's how its always been done'', a fundie in other words. they make sure everyone knows that they "practice". There are many of them around here. They have about zero concept of the significance of the Hebrew Mission Accomplished nor any desire to truly understand the Mystery of Golgotha. It has nothing to do with religion & everything to do with spirituality.

 hippiechick wrote: 

 kurtster wrote: 
It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with people like you who think that it's okay to shove one person's views onto everyone else. It's all so hypocritical.

 hippiechick wrote: 
And you have said you are not a practicing Jew.  Yet you rail about how miserable Christmas makes you feel.

I'll let Winter decide if my reply makes any sense to him.  My argument is much broader than just crosses.

I have no dog in this hunt persay.