Your statements imply that waterboarding has to be the only effective measure taken against terrorists in the wake of 9/11. That's completely absurd, in view of things such as heightened airport security, better cooperation among law enforcement agencies, and tracking and shutting down funding for Al Qaeda.
(snip)
Which statements are you referring to? Where did you see them? And on what topic?
put down the crackpipe.
Typical abuse, even if the original was in a small font.
The subject was waterboarding as applied to terrorist suspects as prisoners. I said I was against it, and I'd been biased against use of torture by all the noble pronouncements I'd grown up with, including some from Mr. Ronald Reagan.
In reply you put up some sort of blather about an Osama bin Laden taunt regarding US military ineffectiveness, a swipe at Bill Clinton's cruise missile strike in 1998, and a largely meaningless advertising slogan about pre 9/11 thinking.
Actually, I was doing you a great favor by trying to make some sense of it and relating it to the topic of waterboarding. The only thing I could make of the mess was that you were claiming that we were weak, pathetic and helpless without the use of waterboarding.
Yes, I must just be a crackhead; I can't see the exquisite logic in a random spewing of propaganda that tries to be rabble-rousing but only rouses annoyance.
Golly, I don't know where I could have gotten the idea that you'd ever want to pat Beaker on the head for relatively good behavior.
It's not as if Beaker spews insolent, loudmouthed abuse at people or anything, then feigns innocent injury when they howl and fight back after the verbal assault: "Oh, that big bad 67 year old man with the white beard hit me and caused my little Beaker nose to bleed. Poor little me is just sitting here leaking. Call the ambulance." And then counts on people to actually accept that line of crap.
please just leave Elvis and Bigfoot out of this imbroglio...
please just leave Elvis and Bigfoot out of this imbroglio...
Are you kiddin'? Given the political climate of the US, they could be the focus of political mass movements that have a decisive effect on Presidential politics.
Bin Ladin: We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier. He is ready to wage cold wars but unprepared to fight hot wars. This was proven in Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions, showing they can run in less than twenty-four hours. This was then repeated in Somalia. We are ready for all occasions, we rely on God.
—-
9/10 thinking is what led to 9/11. Bin Ladin was certain that America under Bush would not do anything more than lob a few cruise missiles, just like Clinton did in 1998. Bin Ladin miscalculated big time. Surely you don't want to see the world revert to 9/10 thinking now ... say it ain't so.
Waterboarding has nothing to do with the efficacy of US soldiers. Did they use waterboarding of prisoners to stabilize Iraq? Are they using it to get Afghanistan under control?
How about when the US soldier was unambiguously successful in Europe in WWII? Was it due to torture of German prisoners? If so, then we'd better damned sight correct a thing or two, and give an apology to the Russians for taking them to task for their brutal treatment of prisoners.
And that was a time that was far, far more dangerous than now. Every night, cities could suffer several times the deaths that 9/11 caused. London and Coventry showed what could happen to the Allies.
During the following Cold War, it was even worse. Thousands of Soviet nuclear missiles were poised against the US. Even the smallest had destructive power far more than all the damned airliners in the world put together flown by the entire membership of Al Qaeda. That would be far more compelling a reason to use torture to extract information.
Yet, somehow, Western governments - including your hero Ronald Reagan - did not see the need to adopt torture for self preservation. He also was the one who withdrew US troops from Lebanon after the bombing of US marines, BTW.
Your statements imply that waterboarding has to be the only effective measure taken against terrorists in the wake of 9/11. That's completely absurd, in view of things such as heightened airport security, better cooperation among law enforcement agencies, and tracking and shutting down funding for Al Qaeda.
There have always been rationalizations for torture. The North Vietnamese probably thought that a few helpful statements from downed US airmen would have a decisive effect on world opinion and civilian morale. They would play a key role in reunifying Vietnam and wrenching the economy from the grasp of the Wicked Bourgeoisie. So what's one guy, say, a John McCain, subjected to just a little unspeakable brutality?
If I'm wrong, and torture is needed for miltary effectiveness, then it is just another aspect of war. When other nations practice it on our soldiers when captured, we'd have no justificaton for complaint, no more than we could complain about an enemy's good generalship causing high casualties on our side.
Golly, I don't know where I could have gotten the idea that you'd ever want to pat Beaker on the head for relatively good behavior.
It's not as if Beaker spews insolent, loudmouthed abuse at people or anything, then feigns innocent injury when they howl and fight back after the verbal assault: "Oh, that big bad 67 year old man with the white beard hit me and caused my little Beaker nose to bleed. Poor little me is just sitting here leaking. Call the ambulance." And then counts on people to actually accept that line of crap.
I just scrolled back and read some of the comments... this is the COOLEST THREAD EVER!!
Is it? Gonna take your word for it. Had posted here before, but drifted on. I figure I will wait till it becomes to becomes syndicated. Something has to take the place of "Lost" eventually..
As long as you continue to spew malicious lies and threaten myself or other RPeeps with violence or threaten their political public lives, and not apologize for nor retract the statements, as you remain unpunished for these deeds by the operator of this forum, I'll be the guy to remind everyone here what a low-life asshole you really are.
That would be your version of the story. Unfortunately, your posting history directed at me over the last couple of years reveals something else entirely. You felt the need to snipe away at me, unprovoked, for months and months, with snide remarks in reply to my posts to others. And after that went on for a while, a predictable result occurred: you attracted my undivided attention Gregg. And we know what happened next.
Keep it up Shamwow - and see where it lands you. Or show some maturity for once and learn how to ignore the posts of those you dislike and pass them by without comment, snide or otherwise.
Toddy: This? The last time I saw a specimen like this, they had to shoot the horse! Waiter: How lucky can you get? In one evening a Rockefeller... and a Groucho Marx. Toddy: Oh, they didn't shoot a real horse... just a costume with two waiters in it. Waiter: I shall think of a sharp retort while I am getting your roast chicken. Toddy: It's a wise man who knows when to throw in the towel. Waiter: And it is a moron who gives advice to a horse's arse.
Toddy: This? The last time I saw a specimen like this, they had to shoot the horse! Waiter: How lucky can you get? In one evening a Rockefeller... and a Groucho Marx. Toddy: Oh, they didn't shoot a real horse... just a costume with two waiters in it. Waiter: I shall think of a sharp retort while I am getting your roast chicken. Toddy: It's a wise man who knows when to throw in the towel. Waiter: And it is a moron who gives advice to a horse's arse.
Bin Ladin: We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier. He is ready to wage cold wars but unprepared to fight hot wars. This was proven in Beirut when the Marines fled after two explosions, showing they can run in less than twenty-four hours. This was then repeated in Somalia. We are ready for all occasions, we rely on God.
—-
9/10 thinking is what led to 9/11. Bin Ladin was certain that America under Bush would not do anything more than lob a few cruise missiles, just like Clinton did in 1998. Bin Ladin miscalculated big time. Surely you don't want to see the world revert to 9/10 thinking now ... say it ain't so.
Yeah, so who is the one that is right? Does might make right?
Frankly, I think that anyone that won't fight for a stupid cause (which most wars are) are the smart ones. "We rely on God." ???
Yeah might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side and made us mighty Yeah might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side; I don't believe them
I'm crawling through the underbrush, we're teched up to the hilt Compared to us these poor guys should be wearing shorts and kilts I've got a living breathing shadow crossed up in my scope My partner gives the signal, pull the trigger, then there's smoke
Might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side and makes us mighty Yeah might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side; I don't believe them
Might makes right Yeah might makes right I guess that god is on our side and makes us mighty Yeah might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side; I don't believe them
They want us from the villages, they want us from the towns Who could really blame them, shit blows up when we're around We fly above their houses with our Huey double-props We scare the crap out of their kids, their mothers and their flocks
Might makes right Yeah might makes right I guess 'cause god is on our side it makes us mighty Yeah might makes right Yeah might makes right They say that god is on our side; I don't believe them
Elvis Presley is my biological father, so I do not appreciate you bringing him into this forum... and why does everybody keep kicking Bigfoot? What has Bigfoot ever done to anybody? You are correct about Carl Rove... he is a regular Darth Vader — "You don't know the power of the dark side!"
If you kick Bigfoot, you are gonna get a BIG KICK back!
It doesn't matter what Jadewahoo sees on his camping trips, whether Bigfoot, Yeti, Sasquatch, or Elvis, he has a point: all the time the Soviet Union existed, the media constantly trumpeted the inhuman brutality of this Evil Empire. If we'd heard that the Soviets were using waterboarding, a.k.a. simulated drowning, we would have accepted it as more proof of its cruelty. Certainly not like the Enlightened West.
Elvis Presley is my biological father, so I do not appreciate you bringing him into this forum... and why does everybody keep kicking Bigfoot? What has Bigfoot ever done to anybody? You are correct about Carl Rove... he is a regular Darth Vader — "You don't know the power of the dark side!"
Christ, Islander was just kidding about "to the filing cabinets". You didn't actually have to go and do it. At least this one dates from November 19, 2009, so it's only going on 4 months old.
Meanwhile it's the same old crap, and the same old reaction. Brandog, as anyone can see for themselves, is not in the habit of threatening people with an icepick. What should motivate him to post what he did?
Now all we need is ScottFromWyoming to pat Beaker on the head for his relatively good behavior and to wring his hands over those piling on poor old B.
What's lost in all the brouhaha is the content of the link in question - in which Karl Rove states that he's proud of the use of waterboarding to extract information from terrorist suspects.
It doesn't matter what Jadewahoo sees on his camping trips, whether Bigfoot, Yeti, Sasquatch, or Elvis, he has a point: all the time the Soviet Union existed, the media constantly trumpeted the inhuman brutality of this Evil Empire. If we'd heard that the Soviets were using waterboarding, a.k.a. simulated drowning, we would have accepted it as more proof of its cruelty. Certainly not like the Enlightened West.
Therefore, those of us growing up in the sixties and seventies developed an unfortunate prejudice against torture, equating torture with the Evil East, and relatively mild treatment of prisoners with the Noble and Good West, the leader of which was the United States.
Yep. But ya know, well, it is one of the red-flags that a person is a Troll... they seek to derail the addressing of a topic with which they have no rational response, so it is On to the Attack! Diffuse, derail, demean and degrade! Yes! That makes the Trolls position so much more valiant, eh?
Keep yer powder dry, amigo.
must be your cross to bear for being fair and honest.
