Radio Paradise

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:31pm
hönx wrote: As you don't know what Democracy means, you won't be able to understand Fascism. So let me give you a hint: Fascism starts when people begin turning into monsters. For further detailed information you should ask your spiritual brother, the scientist, or better your local hairdresser. Monsters, eh ? How about these guys, they make Hitler look like a chump.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:31pm
samiyam wrote: I'm sorry, but I'm with Beanie on this. I didn't say I support the ruling...but, I will. too many recent rulings have applied a slow tourniquet to free speech...this stands as a clear call on free speech, even if we find something less than desirable in it.

samiyam

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:28pm
musik_knut wrote: this ruling by SCOTUS might not sit well, but it reaffirms free speech...and there are those moments of free speech many of us are not so sure about... I'm sorry, but I'm with Beanie on this.

arighter2

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:25pm

Beanie wrote:

I heard the comments by Newt Gingrich this afternoon, claiming that this ruling would provide the middle class "equal footing" in campaigns. I gotta say, that sounded about as disingenuous as anything I've ever heard. This ruling allows any large corporation to "buy" an election and to intimidate any incumbent into voting as these large corporations would like. And union money is a pittance, in comparison to what corporate money can bring to bear.

The future of fair elections in this country is looking pretty bleak right now.

With all due respect, I think the election prospects of non corporate-sanctioned candidates has been pretty bleak since NAFTA Champion Bill Clinton beat Jerry Brown in the 1992 Democratic primary.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:24pm
arighter2 wrote: Couldn't find the breakdown on CNN but Fox News reports the liberal justices, Stevens, Breyer, Ginsburg, and (surprising to me) Sotamyer dissenting from today's ridiculous ruling.. Justice Kennedy wrote the majority opinion...not sure how the rest aligned.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:23pm

Beanie wrote:

this ruling by SCOTUS might not sit well, but it reaffirms free speech...and there are those moments of free speech many of us are not so sure about...

arighter2

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:22pm
Couldn't find the breakdown on CNN but Fox News reports the liberal justices, Stevens, Breyer, Ginsburg, and (surprising to me) Sotamyer dissenting from today's ridiculous ruling..

Beanie

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:21pm

DD hÃ¶nx

Location: middle of nowhere

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 6:15pm
kurtster wrote: And your point as it relates to my comment is ... ? As you don't know what Democracy means, you won't be able to understand Fascism. So let me give you a hint: Fascism starts when people begin turning into monsters. For further detailed information you should ask your spiritual brother, the scientist, or better your local hairdresser.

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:54pm
hönx wrote: And your point as it relates to my comment is ... ? hönx if your hörny ?

DD hÃ¶nx

Location: middle of nowhere

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:48pm
kurtster wrote: I would like to add that facism is not an exclusive property of the far right. It exists throughout all sides of the political spectrum. That it only can exist on the right is part of the big lie.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:29pm

Mark_E_DeSnow wrote:

cc_rider wrote:

Corporate campaign spending is free speech? Right. Just like taking Congress members on exotic junkets is 'free speech'. I never thought I'd see the day when the Supreme Court would roll over so completely. I used to think, when things got really bad, we could still count on the Supreme Court to step in and bring some reason to bear. Even the mess they've made of affirmative action cases, I can understand the conflicting sides and how hard it is to come up with something truly workable. But this? THIS? Why even bother to vote anymore? No matter who is in office, Corporate America can simply BUY whatever they want, from whoever happens to be sitting in the chair. I've always assumed both major political parties were crooked, but this institutionalizes it to a degree that is simply astounding.

Schlabby, I agree with your assessment. This ruling marks a dark day for the democratic ideals this country was founded on. We now have a government OF the corporations, BY the corporations, and FOR the corporations.

I agree with your assessment of the current wretched situation. But where have you been? The corporations have been running things in this country long before you (and me) were even born! The last time anyone serioulsy challenged the Divine Right of Kings (excuse me. I mean Corporatocracy) was during the Great Depression. This crisis precipitated a major reevaluation of the economic system, ie. just what type of country America was supposed to be. Of course, the capitalist class managed to slither out of that one - with the help of F.D.R. - just as it had done in previous times of economic collapse.

For a good history of Corporate ruled America since the Civil War, I reccommend 'Age of Betrayal' (2007) by Jack Beatty. It's style is (unfortunately) oblique, but the salient facts are revealed.

and that type would be?

kurtster

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:22pm
I would like to add that facism is not an exclusive property of the far right. It exists throughout all sides of the political spectrum. That it only can exist on the right is part of the big lie.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:19pm
kurtster wrote: And only legal US citizens have US Constitutional rights ... not according to those who stretch The Constitution in ways never thought possible...

kurtster

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:18pm
oldslabsides wrote: Free speech is the right of individuals, not groups or companies or parties. Only individuals have rights. And only legal US citizens have US Constitutional rights ... Edit : I know, wishful thinking.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:15pm
oldslabsides wrote: Free speech is the right of individuals, not groups or companies or parties. Only individuals have rights. not according to SCOTUS...that was settled many moons ago...while I would disagree in that ruling, we abide by it.

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:13pm

musik_knut wrote:

60+ million $ in 2008 courtesy of unions is big pocket change...plus now the rules will be changed especially on the matter of specific endorsements...but, all in all, free speech has been reaffirmed, even if in a manner we might not agree with as surely that is often to case for (some) those with an interest in such matters.

Free speech is the right of individuals, not groups or companies or parties. Only individuals have rights.

musik_knut

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Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:12pm

oldslabsides wrote:

The money unions have is pocket change compared to the money corporations have.

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 - 5:08pm
musik_knut wrote: this also shakes unions free from the restraints of 60-days prior to an election...useful information for those who think only corporations will be unleashed. The money unions have is pocket change compared to the money corporations have.

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