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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Health Care Reform
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 32, 33, 34 |
hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Sep 19, 2010 - 9:07am |
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Did you know that the Health Care Reform Bill requires that 85% of every insurance dollar needs to go to actual health care? Guess why the insurance companies don't want this bill to live?
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oldviolin
Location: esse quam videri Gender:
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Posted:
May 10, 2010 - 6:31am |
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OCDHG wrote: I agree with you... up to a point. If we didn't have the FDA, manufacterurs would be selling all kinds of nasty stuff... rotten meat, toxic canned goods, etc. There are many historical examples which show a need for consumer protections. I don't have a problem with vitamin and supplement manufacturers, and I don't think vitamins and supplements need to be regulated the same way as drugs. But at the very least they should not be allowed to claim that there's something in the bottle that isn't there. I'm all for individual choice, but when people do stupid shit we all end up paying for their mistakes in the long run. I'd like to be a purist (and I'm speaking as a re-formed liberterian-type) but I've become more pragmatic about it. Whether we like it or not, we are stuck with each other. There has to be a balance between individual rights and group responsibility. The tricky bit is finding what the balance is.
You youngsters are pretty smart, I don't care what anyone says...Eventually there will be a new starting point, and none of us knows what it looks like, but we'll know it when we get there.
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DownHomeGirl
Location: American Russia Gender:
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Posted:
May 10, 2010 - 6:22am |
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miamizsun wrote: The bottom line is that it should be the individual's choice, on anything that they wish to put into their body.
Or any coverage they choose to purchase.
Government in bed with insurance and pharmaceutical companies have granted these guys price protection, in other words, a license to rip you off.
It seems that people just don't give a damn about that, especially if they perceive that someone else is paying - they just want it - by hook or by crook - it just doesn't matter....
Where are our standards?
I agree with you... up to a point. If we didn't have the FDA, manufacterurs would be selling all kinds of nasty stuff... rotten meat, toxic canned goods, etc. There are many historical examples which show a need for consumer protections. I don't have a problem with vitamin and supplement manufacturers, and I don't think vitamins and supplements need to be regulated the same way as drugs. But at the very least they should not be allowed to claim that there's something in the bottle that isn't there. I'm all for individual choice, but when people do stupid shit we all end up paying for their mistakes in the long run. I'd like to be a purist (and I'm speaking as a re-formed liberterian-type) but I've become more pragmatic about it. Whether we like it or not, we are stuck with each other. There has to be a balance between individual rights and group responsibility. The tricky bit is finding what the balance is.
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miamizsun
Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP) Gender:
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Posted:
May 10, 2010 - 5:39am |
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The bottom line is that it should be the individual's choice, on anything that they wish to put into their body.
Or any coverage they choose to purchase.
Government in bed with insurance and pharmaceutical companies have granted these guys price protection, in other words, a license to rip you off.
It seems that people just don't give a damn about that, especially if they perceive that someone else is paying - they just want it - by hook or by crook - it just doesn't matter....
Where are our standards?
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DownHomeGirl
Location: American Russia Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 11:01am |
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Homeopathy is bunk. Serial dilutions until there is undetectable amounts of the original compound. Placebo effect is real, and any benefit homeopathy offers is due to this.
Vitamins are a different story— but let's be clear. No doubt pharmaceutical companies would be well positioned to provide vitamin products that would be approved by the FDA if there were new regulations put in place, BUT... Vitamins and supplements, because they are NOT regulated by the FDA, and because they currently are defined as "foods" under the law, do NOT have to undergo the same regulatory scrutiny before they go on the market. And this is not always a great thing. Things people don't often know about what's allowed currently:
No third party currently verifies that what is printed on the label is actually in the product. Several studies sampled a variety of commercially available vitamin and supplement products, and found a wide range in difference from the stated potency of the product to what was actually in it (from 0% to 200%). So, that 120 mg tablet of ginko biloba you just bought might actually contain ZERO mg of ginko biloba, or 340 mg of ginko biloba. Who knows? No one is checking to ensure that they are accurately representing what is in the product you get. Other studies have found all kinds of other things in vitamins and supplements which are not disclosed on the label at all. So from brand to brand, and even between lots of the same brand, the quality and quantity of active ingredient is highly variable
The bottom line is, you really don't know what you are buying when you buy vitamins and supplements. Unless the product has the U.S. Pharmacopoeia seal on it, meaning that manufacturer has had a 3rd party verify the contents, you could be getting anything.
I think many herbal products are great and they absolutely should be available— but I think there should be some regulation. Mostly what I have an issue with is inaccuracy in labeling. I don't necessarily think they need to be regulated the same way that prescription drugs are, but there should be some oversight on labeling— to ensure what is advertised is actually what is in the bottle. I believe Germany has a good system. Many of the studies done using herbal products use products from Germany because they are regulated for potency and consistency.
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triskele
Location: The Dragons' Roost
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:50am |
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Lazy8 wrote: triskele wrote:homeopathy works on much more subtle levels than those effected by allopathic medicines, but, ideally, both work in partnership to achieve holistic, body/mind healing.
I think we are using very different definitions of the word "work". and i am not looking for an argument. just trying to state that there are different ways of healing.
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:49am |
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triskele wrote:homeopathy works on much more subtle levels than those effected by allopathic medicines, but, ideally, both work in partnership to achieve holistic, body/mind healing.
I think we are using very different definitions of the word "work".
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triskele
Location: The Dragons' Roost
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:44am |
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Lazy8 wrote: oldslabsides wrote:do you consider homeopathy to be fraudulent, or just some products?
If he won't say it I will: quackery. Junk science. Most homeopaths probably believe what they're pushing, which might even be scarier than if they were actual frauds selling snake oil at a medicine show. There is a core of truth to some of the vitamin industry's claims, and some real outrages in the way the FDA regulates some vitamin claims (go read up on folic acid, for instance, and its role in preventing birth defects, or the uses of vitamin D and calcium in preventing colon cancer) but for the most part unless you're suffering from a vitamin deficiency (with actual symptoms and such) overdosing yourself with vitamins might as well be sugar pills. The diluted substance part of homeopathy is the worst of it. I don't know how a homeopath treats a broken bone, but I can't trust anyone who demonstrates such profound ignorance about the structure and function of the human body with any aspect of my health. a real, ethical, homeopathically trained physician refers you to the nearest e/r to get your broken bone set! and then, after you have done that, s/he suggests homeopathic remedies that will help your body deal with the trauma, and to aid in the bone healing process. it's up to the patient to choose if s/he wants to just use homeopathic remedies, or to combine them with the medications offered by the e/r doc and orthopedist. the homeopathic physician probably will also suggest a good massage therapist to help with your recovery afterward (along side the physical therapy that the allopathic doctor prescribes), and will encourage you to take other steps, both allopathic and alternative/complementary, to achieve your utmost health goals! true natural health practitioners are all about COMPLEMENTARY medicine. we realize that there is a need, and a place, for every kind of healing. the oncologist, the e/r doc, the orthopedist, the chiropractor, the shamanic practitioner, the herbalist, the nutritionist, and on and on.... ALL have a place. one of the wonders of this country is that we still have a right to choose which modalities to incorporate into our own healing processes, and which ones to leave aside. some of us choose homeopathy, and have found it to be profoundly effective. and as far as structure and function go, there are aspects of those that reach beyond the anatomy/physiology texts. most people are unaware of these subtle layers of themselves on a day to day, ordinary level. homeopathy works on much more subtle levels than those effected by allopathic medicines, but, ideally, both work in partnership to achieve holistic, body/mind healing.
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Xeric
Location: Montana Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:20am |
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Lazy8 wrote: oldslabsides wrote:do you consider homeopathy to be fraudulent, or just some products?
If he won't say it I will: quackery. Junk science. I dunno, Marty: I think that's pretty generous.
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Manbird
Location: ? ? ? Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:18am |
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kurtster wrote: Done! Thanks for the link.
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 10:07am |
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oldslabsides wrote:do you consider homeopathy to be fraudulent, or just some products?
If he won't say it I will: quackery. Junk science. Most homeopaths probably believe what they're pushing, which might even be scarier than if they were actual frauds selling snake oil at a medicine show. There is a core of truth to some of the vitamin industry's claims, and some real outrages in the way the FDA regulates some vitamin claims (go read up on folic acid, for instance, and its role in preventing birth defects, or the uses of vitamin D and calcium in preventing colon cancer) but for the most part unless you're suffering from a vitamin deficiency (with actual symptoms and such) overdosing yourself with vitamins might as well be sugar pills. The diluted substance part of homeopathy is the worst of it. I don't know how a homeopath treats a broken bone, but I can't trust anyone who demonstrates such profound ignorance about the structure and function of the human body with any aspect of my health.
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 9:28am |
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miamizsun wrote:This is very serious. If you do nothing else today or the near future read this, follow the link and please take action.We're about to hand over the vitamin/supplement industry to the well connected big pharmaceutical companies.Your going to get gouged with Congressional blessings on your supplements. Why would your government do this??? ============================================================================================ Yet Another Attempt on Capitol Hill to Take Away our Vitamins The threat of a regulatory stranglehold over dietary supplements has intensified. Earlier this year, Sen. John McCain introduced a bill that would have given the FDA draconian new powers. A citizen's revolt ensued that caused that bill to be sidelined. We are being watchful that Sen. McCain does not try to slip some of his oppressive original proposals into another Senate bill. The urgent issue we face today is language Rep. Henry Waxman snuck into the already passed Wall Street Reform Bill (H.R. 4173) that he hopes to get into the Senate bill. This language would give unelected FTC bureaucrats arbitrary authority to impose crippling requirements that will drive up the costs of supplements or remove them from the market entirely. It is imperative that consumers email their Senators to keep this language out of the Senate version of the Wall Street Reform Bill and out of any later version voted on by the House and Senate. What Is Really Going On Here Pharmaceutical companies recognize that their greatest competitive threat comes from low-cost dietary supplements that are virtually free of side effects. The most efficient way to destroy this competition is to have Congress enact legislation that will enable federal agencies to eradicate consumer access to dietary supplements. To give you an idea of how much money is involved, just look at the cost of prescription drug fish oil sold under the trade name Lovaza®. A 30-day supply of Lovaza® sells for around $195.00. Consumers can obtain the same quantity of EPA/DHA fish oil for under $32.00 as a dietary supplement. With the passage of the Medicare Prescription Drug Act and Health Care Reform Act, the federal government (that means you) pays outrageously inflated prices for fish oil prescriptions and other drugs. The pharmaceutical industry heavily lobbied Congress to obligate Medicare to shell out full retail price for prescription drugs. In the case of prescription fish oil, taxpayers pay 500% more than what consumers pay for the same amount of fish oil as a dietary supplement. Pharmaceutical companies now want to erect so many new restrictions over dietary supplements that consumers (and taxpayers) will be forced to pay outlandish prescription drug prices for fish oil and other low-cost nutrients. As most of you know, taxes will soon be raised and new government debt created to fund these lavish subsidies to drug companies. It is this kind of institutional corruption that bankrupts governments around the world. We fear that citizen apathy may enable this corrupt legislation to be enacted into law, which will hasten Medicare's date with insolvency, while saddling consumers with higher dietary supplement prices. If this legislation is passed, our fear is that many supplements will disappear or that Americans will be unable to afford their supplements and will succumb to a host of deficiency-related diseases. Please take action below to e-mail your Senator to demand that Rep. Waxman's drug company favoring language not be added to the Senate version of the so-called Wall Street Reform Act and not be included in any later House/Senate version of the bill. My third copy and paste of this from my original Feb 25th posting in the Health Care thread : Another wolf in sheeps clothing : Please click on the take action link below TAKE ACTION AND TELL YOUR SENATOR NOT TO CO-SPONSOR THIS BILL Senator McCain's bill is called The Dietary Supplement Safety Act (DSSA). It would repeal key sections of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA). DSHEA protects supplements if 1) they are food products that have been in the food supply and not chemically altered or 2) if they were sold as supplements prior to 1994, the year that DSHEA was passed. If a supplement fits one of these two descriptions, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) cannot arbitrarily ban it or reclassify it as a drug. These protections are far from perfect. They discourage companies from developing new forms of supplements. New supplements may be arbitrarily banned by the FDA or adopted by drug companies in a way that precludes their further sale as supplements. McCain's bill would wipe out even the minimal protections contained in DSHEA. It would give the FDA full discretion and power to compile a discreet list of supplements allowed to remain on the market while banning all others. Everyone knows that the FDA is friendly to drug companies (which pay its bills and provide good revolving door jobs) and hostile to supplement companies. Under this bill, this same Agency could quite arbitrarily ban any supplement it wished or turn it over to drug companies to be developed as a drug and sold for multiples of its price as a supplement. The FDA will like this because it believes that it can more easily control a few industry giants. But isn't it more likely that the industry giants will eventually gain control over the FDA? The FDA is already misusing the adverse event reporting process that exists. Drugs rack up thousands of adverse event reports without any action. Just recently, the FDA yanked from the market a supplement product based on just a couple of alleged adverse event reports without even allowing the company (an old and respected firm) to provide any counter-evidence or counter-argument. The bill also allows the FDA to yank a product (at the company's expense) if there is a "reasonable probability" that it is "adulterated" or "misbranded". Let's remember that "adulterated" could mean there is a minor record keeping error on the producer's part and "misbranded" can mean that the producer simply tells the truth about the product. An "adulterated" and "misbranded" supplement in Orwellian FDA speak may actually be both completely safe and effective. We must prevent this bill from gaining traction! Protect your access to supplements by contacting your senators today and asking them NOT to co-sponsor the Dietary Supplement Safety Act but rather to oppose it.
TAKE ACTION AND TELL YOUR SENATOR NOT TO CO-SPONSOR THIS BILL
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MrsHobieJoe
Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 9:24am |
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oldslabsides wrote: do you consider homeopathy to be fraudulent, or just some products?
HJ has a major issue (and I agree) with the homeopathic medicine trade in the sense of highly diluted substances. Natural medicines/herbal medicines are often great.
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Red_Dragon
Location: Dumbf*ckistan
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 9:17am |
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ScottFromWyoming wrote: This is a double-edged sword and I'm still sorting it out. I would be all for some sort of regulation, labeling or criminalization of what I consider to be fraudulent homeopathic medicines. The vitamins thing is all tied up in what started out to be a good idea, I think. Maybe....
do you consider homeopathy to be fraudulent, or just some products?
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triskele
Location: The Dragons' Roost
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 9:00am |
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miamizsun wrote: important bump
wish i could, but, for some reason, they want my name, my address, and my phone number in order to do this.....not comfortable with that, so i will just sign the petition at the health store....but yeah, this is important to maintaining our health freedoms..... we have won this battle before, and will win it again....
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ScottFromWyoming
Location: Powell Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 8:46am |
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miamizsun wrote: important bump
This is a double-edged sword and I'm still sorting it out. I would be all for some sort of regulation, labeling or criminalization of what I consider to be fraudulent homeopathic medicines. The vitamins thing is all tied up in what started out to be a good idea, I think. Maybe....
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miamizsun
Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP) Gender:
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Posted:
May 9, 2010 - 8:34am |
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miamizsun wrote:This is very serious. If you do nothing else today or the near future read this, follow the link and please take action.We're about to hand over the vitamin/supplement industry to the well connected big pharmaceutical companies.Your going to get gouged with Congressional blessings on your supplements. Why would your government do this??? ============================================================================================ Yet Another Attempt on Capitol Hill to Take Away our Vitamins The threat of a regulatory stranglehold over dietary supplements has intensified. Earlier this year, Sen. John McCain introduced a bill that would have given the FDA draconian new powers. A citizen's revolt ensued that caused that bill to be sidelined. We are being watchful that Sen. McCain does not try to slip some of his oppressive original proposals into another Senate bill. The urgent issue we face today is language Rep. Henry Waxman snuck into the already passed Wall Street Reform Bill (H.R. 4173) that he hopes to get into the Senate bill. This language would give unelected FTC bureaucrats arbitrary authority to impose crippling requirements that will drive up the costs of supplements or remove them from the market entirely. It is imperative that consumers email their Senators to keep this language out of the Senate version of the Wall Street Reform Bill and out of any later version voted on by the House and Senate. What Is Really Going On Here Pharmaceutical companies recognize that their greatest competitive threat comes from low-cost dietary supplements that are virtually free of side effects. The most efficient way to destroy this competition is to have Congress enact legislation that will enable federal agencies to eradicate consumer access to dietary supplements. To give you an idea of how much money is involved, just look at the cost of prescription drug fish oil sold under the trade name Lovaza®. A 30-day supply of Lovaza® sells for around $195.00. Consumers can obtain the same quantity of EPA/DHA fish oil for under $32.00 as a dietary supplement. With the passage of the Medicare Prescription Drug Act and Health Care Reform Act, the federal government (that means you) pays outrageously inflated prices for fish oil prescriptions and other drugs. The pharmaceutical industry heavily lobbied Congress to obligate Medicare to shell out full retail price for prescription drugs. In the case of prescription fish oil, taxpayers pay 500% more than what consumers pay for the same amount of fish oil as a dietary supplement. Pharmaceutical companies now want to erect so many new restrictions over dietary supplements that consumers (and taxpayers) will be forced to pay outlandish prescription drug prices for fish oil and other low-cost nutrients. As most of you know, taxes will soon be raised and new government debt created to fund these lavish subsidies to drug companies. It is this kind of institutional corruption that bankrupts governments around the world. We fear that citizen apathy may enable this corrupt legislation to be enacted into law, which will hasten Medicare's date with insolvency, while saddling consumers with higher dietary supplement prices. If this legislation is passed, our fear is that many supplements will disappear or that Americans will be unable to afford their supplements and will succumb to a host of deficiency-related diseases. Please take action below to e-mail your Senator to demand that Rep. Waxman's drug company favoring language not be added to the Senate version of the so-called Wall Street Reform Act and not be included in any later House/Senate version of the bill. important bump
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miamizsun
Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP) Gender:
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Posted:
May 8, 2010 - 7:40am |
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This is very serious. If you do nothing else today or the near future read this, follow the link and please take action.We're about to hand over the vitamin/supplement industry to the well connected big pharmaceutical companies.Your going to get gouged with Congressional blessings on your supplements. Why would your government do this??? ============================================================================================ Yet Another Attempt on Capitol Hill to Take Away our Vitamins The threat of a regulatory stranglehold over dietary supplements has intensified. Earlier this year, Sen. John McCain introduced a bill that would have given the FDA draconian new powers. A citizen's revolt ensued that caused that bill to be sidelined. We are being watchful that Sen. McCain does not try to slip some of his oppressive original proposals into another Senate bill. The urgent issue we face today is language Rep. Henry Waxman snuck into the already passed Wall Street Reform Bill (H.R. 4173) that he hopes to get into the Senate bill. This language would give unelected FTC bureaucrats arbitrary authority to impose crippling requirements that will drive up the costs of supplements or remove them from the market entirely. It is imperative that consumers email their Senators to keep this language out of the Senate version of the Wall Street Reform Bill and out of any later version voted on by the House and Senate. What Is Really Going On Here Pharmaceutical companies recognize that their greatest competitive threat comes from low-cost dietary supplements that are virtually free of side effects. The most efficient way to destroy this competition is to have Congress enact legislation that will enable federal agencies to eradicate consumer access to dietary supplements. To give you an idea of how much money is involved, just look at the cost of prescription drug fish oil sold under the trade name Lovaza®. A 30-day supply of Lovaza® sells for around $195.00. Consumers can obtain the same quantity of EPA/DHA fish oil for under $32.00 as a dietary supplement. With the passage of the Medicare Prescription Drug Act and Health Care Reform Act, the federal government (that means you) pays outrageously inflated prices for fish oil prescriptions and other drugs. The pharmaceutical industry heavily lobbied Congress to obligate Medicare to shell out full retail price for prescription drugs. In the case of prescription fish oil, taxpayers pay 500% more than what consumers pay for the same amount of fish oil as a dietary supplement. Pharmaceutical companies now want to erect so many new restrictions over dietary supplements that consumers (and taxpayers) will be forced to pay outlandish prescription drug prices for fish oil and other low-cost nutrients. As most of you know, taxes will soon be raised and new government debt created to fund these lavish subsidies to drug companies. It is this kind of institutional corruption that bankrupts governments around the world. We fear that citizen apathy may enable this corrupt legislation to be enacted into law, which will hasten Medicare's date with insolvency, while saddling consumers with higher dietary supplement prices. If this legislation is passed, our fear is that many supplements will disappear or that Americans will be unable to afford their supplements and will succumb to a host of deficiency-related diseases. Please take action below to e-mail your Senator to demand that Rep. Waxman's drug company favoring language not be added to the Senate version of the so-called Wall Street Reform Act and not be included in any later House/Senate version of the bill.
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Apr 29, 2010 - 1:17pm |
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Mugro
Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
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Posted:
Mar 20, 2010 - 8:48pm |
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"reform" ??
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