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Index »
Regional/Local »
Africa/Middle East »
Libya
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 Next |
Painted_Turtle
Location: Land of Laughing Waters Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 19, 2011 - 11:55am |
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....off we go intoo the wild blue yonder...off we go intoo the sky...
...our oil friends, the Saudi King an princes', are going to be so happy...we're takin care of the situation...they've been so nervous lately.
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jadewahoo
Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 19, 2011 - 11:48am |
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I will trust the integrity of the moral support of democracy through warplanes when I see the UN/NATO/US forces equally pounding the governmental forces of Bahrain and Yemen. Until then, it is just another warmongering tactic of bullying by the Big Boys. Disgusting. *spits*
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MrsHobieJoe
Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:39pm |
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cc_rider wrote: Maybe we should have taken a page from them. Starting, oh, 60 years ago?
I can honestly say I've never really "got" the German mentality despite being exposed to it a fair bit.
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cc_rider
Location: Bastrop Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:36pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote:there's an election due shortly
noenz would be better informed than me
broadly speaking I think that Germany is still very scarred by it's own actions during WWII and generally opts not to get involved when there is any doubt- the population is cautious and sceptical to the nth degree on international invovlement- maybe they are right
Maybe we should have taken a page from them. Starting, oh, 60 years ago?
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MrsHobieJoe
Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:31pm |
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cc_rider wrote: I heard something about 'internal political concerns' regarding Germany's non-vote. I have no idea what that means though.
there's an election due shortly noenz would be better informed than me broadly speaking I think that Germany is still very scarred by it's own actions during WWII and generally opts not to get involved when there is any doubt- the population is cautious and sceptical to the nth degree on international invovlement- maybe they are right
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cc_rider
Location: Bastrop Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:30pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote:it was their security council stance that looks odd- not the same thing as active participation or at least tacit approval
I heard something about 'internal political concerns' regarding Germany's non-vote. I have no idea what that means though.
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MrsHobieJoe
Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:28pm |
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beamends wrote: Doesn't Germany have a constitutional problem with fighting overseas? Something rings a bell from the Gulf War Mk.1 I seem to recall.
it was their security council stance that looks odd- not the same thing as active participation or at least tacit approval economics could be it (not that I'm suggesting that we are whiter than white or even grubby grey in that arena)
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beamends
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 1:08pm |
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MrsHobieJoe wrote:
can't disagree with you although it was more the previous government who were cosying up to Gadaffi than this one I think? I'm burned over Iraq and think that countries need to sort themselves out but maybe the no fly zone is sort of neutral (I'm ever the optimist). At the Kosovo type level interference to prevent a human disaster was the correct move (should've happened earlier).
My contact in the know said basically the most of Europe is in except for Germany who made some statement about contracts not getting involved in North Africa (maybe historic experience then !!)
Doesn't Germany have a constitutional problem with fighting overseas? Something rings a bell from the Gulf War Mk.1 I seem to recall.
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MrsHobieJoe
Location: somewhere in Europe Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 12:54pm |
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geordiezimmerman wrote:The UK (along with others) have sent tornado fighter jets to Libya. Just as they announce it Libya hold a ceasfire (exactly the same tactics Saddam used)
I'm all for defending the rebels who want gadaffi out, I'm all for defending those who are being shot and killed simply for protesting. However, there are many other middle east countries acting the same way, Yeme and Bahrain to name just two but I don't see us threatening them with a no fly zone. Is this because they are personal friends of the royal family? Personal friends of many conservative members of parliament? One moment we are shaking hands with Gadaffi, selling him literally millions of pounds worth of weapons. Now suddenly he's an evil dictator who must be wiped out! Oh the hypocrisy!
can't disagree with you although it was more the previous government who were cosying up to Gadaffi than this one I think? I'm burned over Iraq and think that countries need to sort themselves out but maybe the no fly zone is sort of neutral (I'm ever the optimist). At the Kosovo type level interference to prevent a human disaster was the correct move (should've happened earlier). My contact in the know said basically the most of Europe is in except for Germany who made some statement about contracts not getting involved in North Africa (maybe historic experience then !!)
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peter_james_bond
Location: West Of The Burg Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:43am |
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jagdriver wrote:Bullshit
Typical bully shit behavior.
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cc_rider
Location: Bastrop Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:22am |
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jagdriver wrote:Bullshit
Steaming.
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jagdriver
Location: Now in Lobster Land Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:16am |
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hippiechick wrote: Bullshit
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geordiezimmerman
Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:16am |
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The UK (along with others) have sent tornado fighter jets to Libya. Just as they announce it Libya hold a ceasfire (exactly the same tactics Saddam used)
I'm all for defending the rebels who want gadaffi out, I'm all for defending those who are being shot and killed simply for protesting. However, there are many other middle east countries acting the same way, Yeme and Bahrain to name just two but I don't see us threatening them with a no fly zone. Is this because they are personal friends of the royal family? Personal friends of many conservative members of parliament? One moment we are shaking hands with Gadaffi, selling him literally millions of pounds worth of weapons. Now suddenly he's an evil dictator who must be wiped out! Oh the hypocrisy!
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hippiechick
Location: topsy turvy land Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:11am |
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 18, 2011 - 8:15am |
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Old Sudanese/Bosnian/Rwandan proverb: "If you seek freedom for your people, sell oil to the French."
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Alafia
Location: the dojo Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 17, 2011 - 4:52pm |
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beamends wrote: And the Kurds in the north - they got crushed too.
Beware assistance from the West. To paraphrase Ronnie, "We're from NATO and we're here to help"
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beamends
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Posted:
Mar 17, 2011 - 4:50pm |
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hobiejoe wrote: IIRC, the Marsh Arabs in southern Iraq, with apparent encouragement from the US attempted an uprising in '91, after the first Gulf War, only to be brutally crushed.
And the Kurds in the north - they got crushed too.
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jagdriver
Location: Now in Lobster Land Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 17, 2011 - 4:41pm |
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Lazy8 wrote:jagdriver wrote:British, French and US military aircraft are preparing to protect the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi after the United Nations security council voted in favour of a no-fly zone and air strikes against Muammar Gaddafi's forces.
With Gaddafi's troops closing in on Benghazi, the French prime minister, Francois Fillon, said "time is of the essence" and that France would support military action set to take place within hours.
Jets could take off from French military bases along the Mediterranean coast, about 750 miles from Libya. Several Arab countries would join the operation. France should take the lead. The jets Qaddafi's air force is strafing with are Mirages, after all. And Sarkozy needs to cover his tracks a bit; he offered to help the Tunisian government with its rebellion when it started. I have to admit that this whole operation makes me profoundly uncomfortable. Not only because it may be too little too late to effect the outcome but because the UN is taking sides in a Libyan civil war. What happens if Qaddafi wins anyway? He isn't the forgiving sort and he knows how to fight dirty. How do we turn down intervening in Bahrain after this—a country with F-16s instead of creaky old Mirages, and a powerful neighbor (Saudi Arabia) intent on keeping its regime in power? If the UN can intervene in Libya, what about Lebanon? Syria? Iran? What happens if an uprising breaks out in Saudi Arabia, the region's most powerful country, and next to Israel the best-armed? Yes, I'm on the fence over this one, as it's really complicated and has the makings of a WWIII by the time all parties weigh in. I was all too keen on us going after Saddam when Powell presented the WMD story; what a mess that became. This time I am much less hawkish. I feel for the Libyan "rebels" and would like them to overcome Qaddafi, but, yes, there is a lot of scary precedent-setting going on as you outlined above. On a closer-to-home and purely-selfish angle, it reminds me that the hedge fund folks were predicting $200-a-barrel prices on oil by June two weeks ago. Just this morning it cost me $68 to fill up with a tank of regular unleaded, and I average a tank a week just in my commute. What if that price does, in fact, get doubled?
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Lazy8
Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 17, 2011 - 4:29pm |
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jagdriver wrote:British, French and US military aircraft are preparing to protect the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi after the United Nations security council voted in favour of a no-fly zone and air strikes against Muammar Gaddafi's forces.
With Gaddafi's troops closing in on Benghazi, the French prime minister, Francois Fillon, said "time is of the essence" and that France would support military action set to take place within hours.
Jets could take off from French military bases along the Mediterranean coast, about 750 miles from Libya. Several Arab countries would join the operation.
France should take the lead. The jets Qaddafi's air force is strafing with are Mirages, after all. And Sarkozy needs to cover his tracks a bit; he offered to help the Tunisian government with its rebellion when it started. I have to admit that this whole operation makes me profoundly uncomfortable. Not only because it may be too little too late to effect the outcome but because the UN is taking sides in a Libyan civil war. What happens if Qaddafi wins anyway? He isn't the forgiving sort and he knows how to fight dirty. How do we turn down intervening in Bahrain after this—a country with F-16s instead of creaky old Mirages, and a powerful neighbor (Saudi Arabia) intent on keeping its regime in power? If the UN can intervene in Libya, what about Lebanon? Syria? Iran? What happens if an uprising breaks out in Saudi Arabia, the region's most powerful country, and next to Israel the best-armed?
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hobiejoe
Location: Still in the tunnel, looking for the light. Gender:
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Posted:
Mar 17, 2011 - 4:25pm |
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cc_rider wrote: I tend to ignore Mr. Krauthammer regardless, but you make a good point. Sure plenty of Iraqis hated Saddam, but they didn't have the wherewithal to rise up in protest. Look at the destruction caused by looting and vandalism once Saddam was toppled! Given the tone of the current protests, it seems unlikely Libyans or Egyptians or Bahrainis will perpetrate such large-scale destruction after they gain their freedom.
It's like the old line "If I give you something for free, what value do you attach to it?" The Iraqis were GIVEN their freedom, while the current protesters are EARNING theirs.
Of course that's oversimplifying, but it's the kind of point Mr. Krauthammer routinely overlooks.
IIRC, the Marsh Arabs in southern Iraq, with apparent encouragement from the US attempted an uprising in '91, after the first Gulf War, only to be brutally crushed.
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