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Index »
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Venezuela
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Next |
R_P
Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 20, 2014 - 7:28am |
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ScottFromWyoming wrote:(...) Clearly, setting foot in a country does nothing to improve a person's objectivity about that country...
But having said that, yes (Richard) some writers' profiles do or should (Al Jazeera) include a snippet of biographical info explaining why the writer is qualified to cover a subject. Even so, as one of the many apathetic know-nothings here, I tend to read the content and file it away (often never to be used again) as important, valid, interesting, irrelevant, and/or propaganda, etc. without ever giving a shit about who wrote it. Only when I can't really make out the point of the piece do I try to figure out who the writer is and whether that person might have an angle (isn't a pure journalist) Then I may or may not comment on it. Not commenting (Mugro) does not mean I'm apathetic. (I'm talking about my ideal, not that I can ever really hold myself to it.)
The article itself had a baseline validity in that it offered a little insight, but I thought she was trying too hard to write a piece that followed her narrative. The whole cake thing was ridiculous and actually undermined the writer's point. I stopped reading when the sarcasm in the writer's voice got to be too much. First, the profile on Al Jazeera gives you sufficient information to know where she is coming from (at least ideologically speaking) by listing some of the publications for which she has created content. Second, it's an opinion piece (and clearly labeled as such), in which one can usually adopt any tone one wants. That a tone may not be pleasing to some readers (and/or cause for complaints) is usually, though not always, an indication (of preference) about the reader, not so much about the piece. I suspect we tend to enjoy sarcasm, etc., more when it's in agreement with our views, less so in the opposite case. As some say, YMMV.
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ScottFromWyoming
Location: Powell Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 20, 2014 - 3:19am |
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kurtster wrote: RichardPrins wrote:So are you saying a person's blog profile should always include all the travels a person has undertaken, as opposed to mentioning it (where relevant of course) in their articles?
You are the only one (until after the fact) who knew of the author's history and blog. It takes a real effort to find out this information which should have been included with the article that you posted. Nowhere in the article does the author mention her prior firsthand knowledge or experience with Venezuela which is germane to Mugro's comment and in your slander of Mugro. You insist on obfuscating this point to justify your unremorseful slandering to discredit Mugro and make you appear correct.
This makes you dishonest at best. Perhaps if you had made that clear by commenting on the author's credibility and experience on the subject we would not even be discussing your slanderous behavoiur in the first place. This is the whole point I tried to make a couple of days ago (and years ago) about you just slamming this place with your pastings without comment. It provides you with the opportunity to attack and denegrate those who choose to comment on your pastings in ways you appear to be fishing for so you can discredit or mock those who might disgree with you. Your ommissions are finally incriminating you as this is your modus of operation. So why don't you man up and start stating things in your own words and support them with articles instead of the way you currently operate in these parts. Except for the normal Kurt-lather that makes up 90% of this post, I agree, in general, that some premastication from the person making the post often is what's needed to avoid these derailments. However, the derailment came with Mugro attacking the writer as well as the content. She wrote something that didn't agree with his take on the situation so naturally he asserted that she'd probably never been to Venezuela. That was not relevant and should never have been brought up. If she made good points, then whether or not she'd ever been there makes no difference. Clearly, setting foot in a country does nothing to improve a person's objectivity about that country... But having said that, yes (Richard) some writers' profiles do or should (Al Jazeera) include a snippet of biographical info explaining why the writer is qualified to cover a subject. Even so, as one of the many apathetic know-nothings here, I tend to read the content and file it away (often never to be used again) as important, valid, interesting, irrelevant, and/or propaganda, etc. without ever giving a shit about who wrote it. Only when I can't really make out the point of the piece do I try to figure out who the writer is and whether that person might have an angle (isn't a pure journalist) Then I may or may not comment on it. Not commenting (Mugro) does not mean I'm apathetic. (I'm talking about my ideal, not that I can ever really hold myself to it.) The article itself had a baseline validity in that it offered a little insight, but I thought she was trying too hard to write a piece that followed her narrative. The whole cake thing was ridiculous and actually undermined the writer's point. I stopped reading when the sarcasm in the writer's voice got to be too much.
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R_P
Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 10:14pm |
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 10:08pm |
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RichardPrins wrote: I provided a link to her blog (not her profile), the relevant quotes that deal with her visits, as well as the time they were mentioned, i.e. occurred. I think that's more than sufficient to make the case that someone's claim as to her supposed experience was just plain wrong. You may feel you need much more than that (and as a result will cast all sorts of aspersions), but that's not really my problem, is it?
I have made my point rather clearly and your replies have proven my point rather clearly.
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R_P
Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 10:01pm |
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kurtster wrote: RichardPrins wrote:So are you saying a person's blog profile should always include all the travels a person has undertaken, as opposed to mentioning it (where relevant of course) in their articles? You are the only one (until after the fact) who knew of the author's history and blog. It takes a real effort to find out this information which should have been included with the article that you posted. Nowhere in the article does the author mention her prior firsthand knowledge or experience with Venezuela which is germane to Mugro's comment and in your slander of Mugro. You insist on obfuscating this point to justify your unremorseful slandering to discredit Mugro and make you appear correct.
This makes you dishonest at best. Perhaps if you had made that clear by commenting on the author's credibility and experience on the subject we would not even be discussing your slanderous behavoiur in the first place. This is the whole point I tried to make a couple of days ago (and years ago) about you just slamming this place with your pastings without comment. It provides you with the opportunity to attack and denegrate those who choose to comment on your pastings in ways you appear to be fishing for so you can discredit or mock those who might disgree with you. Your ommissions are finally incriminating you as this is your modus of operation. So why don't you man up and start stating things in your own words and support them with articles instead of the way you currently operate in these parts. I provided a link to her blog (not her profile), the relevant quotes that deal with her visits, as well as the time they were mentioned, i.e. occurred. I think that's more than sufficient to make the case that someone's claim as to her supposed experience was just plain wrong. You may feel you need much more than that (and as a result will cast all sorts of aspersions), but that's not really my problem, is it?
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onlylynne
Location: On a bluff near the Missouri River Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:54pm |
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steeler wrote:May I suggest taking a pause and a deep breath.
Mugro is a witness to a precarious and volatile situation that understandably holds his complete attention. He wants others to understand the torrent of emotions evoked by the passion play unfolding before him and to share the frustrations he feels as a ringside observer. His perspective is unique for those who post here.
Unfortunately, there are other passion plays unfolding in other parts of the globe. Kiev is burning. Aleppo looks like Dresden. Where to direct one's attention? How does one guard against becoming inured to the turmoil and despair?
Ah, Steeler. You are always the voice of reason. You should be president.
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:52pm |
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RichardPrins wrote:So are you saying a person's blog profile should always include all the travels a person has undertaken, as opposed to mentioning it (where relevant of course) in their articles?
You are the only one (until after the fact) who knew of the author's history and blog. It takes a real effort to find out this information which should have been included with the article that you posted. Nowhere in the article does the author mention her prior firsthand knowledge or experience with Venezuela which is germane to Mugro's comment and in your slander of Mugro. You insist on obfuscating this point to justify your unremorseful slandering to discredit Mugro and make you appear correct.
This makes you dishonest at best. Perhaps if you had made that clear by commenting on the author's credibility and experience on the subject we would not even be discussing your slanderous behavoiur in the first place. This is the whole point I tried to make a couple of days ago (and years ago) about you just slamming this place with your pastings without comment. It provides you with the opportunity to attack and denegrate those who choose to comment on your pastings in ways you appear to be fishing for so you can discredit or mock those who might disgree with you. Your ommissions are finally incriminating you as this is your modus of operation. So why don't you man up and start stating things in your own words and support them with articles instead of the way you currently operate in these parts.
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Coaxial
Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:52pm |
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steeler wrote: That he is wielding In regard to posters here?
I think this is the snippet that caught my eye.... You see, here in the land of RP, nothing is real, so people can pontificate and show everyone how smart they are for cutting and pasting stuff from the internet. We can argue endlessly about left and right, climate change and who/what created the world. It is a fun pastime. But at the bottom of all of that rhetoric, somewhere away from where you all live, there are real people having real problems. The people of Venezuela have been suffering for a long time, and I know for a fact that they don't have much time in between waiting in line at the grocery store hoping to buy milk to argue much about whether people who don't like Obama are racists.
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steeler
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:40pm |
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Coaxial wrote: Maybe it is the broad brush....
That he is wielding In regard to posters here?
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Coaxial
Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:38pm |
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steeler wrote: I recognize that and was suggesting that some of that attitude might be emanating from a deep well of frustration. I also fully understand that some of his remarks have been condescending.
Maybe it is the broad brush....
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steeler
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:35pm |
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Coaxial wrote: No one has a problem with J's passion nor his posts regarding what is happening in Venezuela...It is his condescending attitude that is problematic. YMMV.
I recognize that and was suggesting that some of that attitude might be emanating from a deep well of frustration. I also fully understand that some of his remarks have been condescending.
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Coaxial
Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:22pm |
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steeler wrote:May I suggest taking a pause and a deep breath.
Mugro is a witness to a precarious and volatile situation that understandably holds his complete attention. He wants others to understand the torrent of emotions evoked by the passion play unfolding before him and to share the frustrations he feels as a ringside observer. His perspective is unique for those who post here.
Unfortunately, there are other passion plays unfolding in other parts of the globe. Kiev is burning. Aleppo looks like Dresden. Where to direct one's attention? How does one guard against becoming inured?
No one has a problem with J's passion nor his posts regarding what is happening in Venezuela...It is his holier than thou, condescending attitude that is problematic. YMMV.
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steeler
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:16pm |
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May I suggest taking a pause and a deep breath.
Mugro is a witness to a precarious and volatile situation that understandably holds his complete attention. He wants others to understand the torrent of emotions evoked by the passion play unfolding before him and to share the frustrations he feels as a ringside observer. His perspective is unique for those who post here.
Unfortunately, there are other passion plays unfolding in other parts of the globe. Kiev is burning. Aleppo looks like Dresden. Where to direct one's attention? How does one guard against becoming inured to the turmoil and despair?
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R_P
Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 9:12pm |
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kurtster wrote:I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Here is the profile listed with the article. Your reading comprehension of my post is zero. (...) You are the one dealing in half truths and mispeak. So are you saying a person's blog profile should always include all the travels a person has undertaken, as opposed to mentioning it (where relevant of course) in their articles?
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:50pm |
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RichardPrins wrote: I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Here is the profile listed with the article. Your reading comprehension of my post is zero. | Belen Fernandez is the author of The Imperial Messenger: Thomas Friedman at Work, published by Verso. She is a contributing editor at Jacobin Magazine. | | | RSS |
Belén's articles have appeared in the London Review of Books Blog, Jacobin Magazine, The Baffler, Al Akhbar English, Guernica Magazine, CounterPunch, and The Electronic Intifada, among others. Born in Washington, DC, in 1982, Belén earned her bachelor's degree with a concentration in political science from Columbia University in New York City. You are the one dealing in half truths and mispeak.
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R_P
Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:41pm |
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kurtster wrote:There was nothing in her profile with the article stating her having been anywhere near Venezuela.
One would have to google her to find that out, and then do a lot of clicking. Your source left out that pertinent information.
More than once I have questioned you about reading deeper into your own articles and following provided links within them only to have you say that you don't have the time to do all that or something similar.
So I say foul. Mugs offered an opinion, which you are trying to cry foul over. Bullshit. Nope, all you have to do is go to the archive listed on the home page and select February 2010 (I believe that was clearly mentioned). I can't premasticate everything for you. Deniers and conspiracy theorists have the fallacious habit of trying to deduce/infer stuff from what they claim is "missing".
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BlueHeronDruid
Location: Заебани сме луѓе
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:25pm |
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Mugro wrote: Indeed. Too bad you are offended by my posts showing a little light to an issue that a lot of people don't know anything about. If you are educated on the topic and you don't want to get involved, that's up to you. I have seen a lot of posts from a lot of people talking about political issues that I don't either agree with or care anything about. I don't go after them and tell them to bugger off just because I choose not to be concerned with that issue. Did I bug you? Sorry about that. Then you should probably not read my posts until this thing is over, for I will probably be sharing a lot more information about what is going on here. If you don't want to know, don't read. I don't get my news at the Mugro post, so you assume I am uninterested and uninformed. Thank you again for your utterly insulting tone and insinuations.
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Coaxial
Location: Comfortably numb in So Texas Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:24pm |
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Mugro wrote: Indeed. Too bad you are offended by my posts showing a little light to an issue that a lot of people don't know anything about. If you are educated on the topic and you don't want to get involved, that's up to you. I have seen a lot of posts from a lot of people talking about political issues that I don't either agree with or care anything about. I don't go after them and tell them to bugger off just because I choose not to be concerned with that issue.
Did I bug you? Sorry about that. Then you should probably not read my posts until this thing is over, for I will probably be sharing a lot more information about what is going on here. If you don't want to know, don't read.
WHOOSH!
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:23pm |
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RichardPrins wrote: So, from a cursory glance of her blog I believe we can deduce (among other things) that she's been there at least in 2009 and 2010, as well as that once more your argument is shall we say a 'least untruthful' one.
There was nothing in her profile with the article stating her having been anywhere near Venezuela. One would have to google her to find that out, and then do a lot of clicking. Your source left out that pertinent information. More than once I have questioned you about reading deeper into your own articles and following provided links within them only to have you say that you don't have the time to do all that or something similar. So I say foul. Mugs offered an opinion, which you are trying to cry foul over. Bullshit.
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Mugro
Location: Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
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Posted:
Feb 19, 2014 - 8:21pm |
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RichardPrins wrote:You probably wouldn't dare post such an article, because A: it doesn't fit the narrative, B: might create some confusion among those that you'd really like to believe, and finally C: you might get called to answer to some boss-man when your name comes up in the Google. Remarkably, you keep on emphasizing the fact that you're in Venezuela - and ironically in an official capacity - and thus what you say must be considered objective. Pretty funny, but I'm sure most people with at least some critical thinking skills can see that such an argument isn't very sound. As an aside and somewhat interesting, I've also seen that same argument used on occasion in this forum when people had the audacity to criticize American (both domestic and foreign) policies. "Pshaw, he/she probably never even visited the US of A". And variations regarding 'objective experience'. But let's get back to the writer Belén Fernández (both entries are from February 2010): Back in February I attended a rally in Caracas of the Venezuelan anti-government opposition, where various protesters took it upon themselves to educate me as to President Hugo Chávez’ latest transgressions. These included consulting Cuban assassins on the issue of the electricity shortage in Venezuela and emulating Italian dictator Benito Mussolini. (...)
While hitchhiking through Venezuela last year, my friend Amelia Opalinska and I visited a number of Barrio Adentro (Inside the Barrio) clinics, part of the joint Venezuelan-Cuban health initiative begun by Hugo Chávez. The clinics, it turned out, offered free services not only to sick Venezuelans but also to non-sick foreigners who were merely intrigued by the concept of not having to pay for medical procedures—and by clinical decorative schemes, which included portraits of Latin American revolutionaries as well as colorful construction paper calendars advertising the birthdays of staff members, Hugo Chávez, and Fidel Castro. (...) So, from a cursory glance of her blog I believe we can deduce (among other things) that she's been there at least in 2009 and 2010, as well as that once more your argument is shall we say a 'least untruthful' one. I have never hidden my political opinion from anyone, as you well know. You, in fact, know everything there is to know about me. I don't live in the shadows. I post about my life, my work and my opinions. You, on the other hand, do not. That's your choice, of course. I have never hidden my opinions from the State Department either. I told them I was a Republican in my interview and they hired me anyway. Imagine that! Everyone that I work with knows my political perspective too. Some of them don't like it, I am sure. However, make no mistake: the opinions expressed here are my own personal opinions and in NO WAY are the position of the State Department. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to restate that. That being said, my bosses would likely laugh at such an article, for it doesn't represent the reality here.
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