NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 
Tried to answer this in my reply to Islander below....from my own perspective and from what I see, of course.

 R_P wrote:
 
Quoting a NY Times article about the right wing media bubble is really, really rich,. Rich. And laughable......like fact-checking performed by Facebook.

 islander wrote:
 
That wasn't what I was trying to say but ok, you read it that way so I wasn't clear.

What I was trying to describe was that I think that there are people today who feel that their personal liberty, struggled and fought for by preceding generations, and in a way guaranteed by the Constitution, is worth continuing to struggle for and fight for, in order that following generations can enjoy similar.
There are many who feel it their birthright paid for in lives and blood by preceding generations and that they are responsible to ensure that it is not surrendered or lost.
They take that responsibility very seriously.

They perceive that that liberty is under threat from Socialism, Communism, Cultural Marxism, post-modernism, cancel culture, political correctness, China, the Democratic Party, Joe Biden,  the Republican Party - whatever; and are prepared to go to great lengths in order to protect and retain it, even the idea of it. That it is their duty and responsibility.
It's something almost sacred.

There are others who don't feel the same about the idea of personal liberty, possibly feel badly or at least guilty about the actions of their ancestors, and not seeing the idea of personal liberty as important or dearly bought, don't care if it is lost if the greater community at large is perceived to be the better off for it, or if that is the price of everyone being safer, more comfortable, more guaranteed of self-esteem or self-actualisation.

They might be several generations down the line from people who long ago decided that personal rights and freedoms are worth exchanging for the possibility of the greater group being better off.

The former believe that the greater group cannot, in any way, be better off if their personal liberty is NOT retained.

So, would you surrender the idea of personal liberty if the group or country is better off for it, or never ever no matter what?

It's actually hard to describe - it's like.... you either feel it or you don't.

Maybe that's a bit clearer?
Or not?
I'm just a dumb, uneducated Trump supporting purveyor of claptrap and conservative nonsense, probably one of The Deplorables, and so I sometimes find it hard to communicate much beyond grunts and chants of "USA, USA".

 Lazy8 wrote:
 

Well, it actually predicted that such a war, if it began, would likely begin post-2024. And the maker of the video does call for, above anything else, that reds and blues learn to get along better and do whatever so that such a thing didn't actually ever happen, and so that the sky might remain in place, yes.

 steeler wrote:
 

True story.
It would be very interesting to find out though, even roughly, how many freed slaves, or their second or third generation, or even fourth or fifth generation descendants, flooded back to Mother Africa and stayed there.
How many voted with their feet and went back to the Gold Coast or Ivory Coast or The Gambia, for their liberty and freedom, and that of their own descendants; and stayed there?
Even today, how many thousands or tens of thousands of African Americans head back to the motherland from which their ancestors were captured by their own or other tribes, and sold into slavery?
I'm not arguing with you, it's just something I have wondered many times.

kurtrster,

I am crushing your head.  I am crushing your head. I am crushing your head.  

Makes me feel better.  Did that work for you?

 kurtster wrote: 
ok, so if not you, perhaps you could enlighten us on why "others" feel inclined to take the drastic step of inciting/initiating civil war. What are their grievances? Who are their enemies? And what have their enemies done to them?

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
I have not declared war on anyone.  There is no revolution yet, if one even ever happens.

Should one happen, the sides are yet to be determined, let alone the leaders.  Who knows who is going to fire the first shot if it comes to that.  Do you ?

I don't even know if I will be alive to see it happen with what little life span I have left.  Right now I'm focused on just staying alive trying to avoid the bug and still make a living, just like everyone else. 

That said, I'm still paying attention to both those who I see as trying to deceive me and those who say they are looking out for me.  My current evaluation is that those that I perceive to be trying to deceive me presently have the upper hand.  I haven't lived this long purely based on luck.  My skills of observation and the things I have learned so far have helped me to make more correct choices than wrong ones.  As has already been established, what matters to me doesn't matter to you. 

Am I a threat to you ?  Do my choices or actions threaten you ? 

You're there and I'm here.

Edit: We both looked at the same video.  You apparently only saw a crazy conspiracy theory and a call to arms.  I saw a check list of the way things likely are and what to be actually worried about so I can plan accordingly for the future.  In case that future happens, I'll at least be aware of how things are likely to go and not be surprised by much of anything.  How not to panic.  Don't forget, I had a ring side seat for the 60's and not in some backwater little town where people still lived like it was the 50's.  If Berkeley, California is Ground Zero for the 60's, that would make me from Ground Zero when and where it all began.  I now live 10 miles from Kent State, which I attended, where we just had the 50th anniversary of the shootings.  I am no stranger to crazy government and people who tangle with it.  You can find calm in the middle of a hurricane.  My goal is to stay in the eye as long as I can.

Inside the Right-Wing Media Bubble, Where the Myth of a Trump Win Lives On

Far-fetched tales of vast, subversive networks of infiltrators have a long history in the Republican Party. Ms. Powell’s claims that Cuba, Venezuela and China are behind a plot to install rigged voting machines in the United States have echoes of the anti-communist paranoia that was promoted in the 1960s by the John Birch Society and Phyllis Schlafly, considered by many to be the matriarch of the conservative movement.

Yochai Benkler, a professor at Harvard Law School who helped write “Network Propaganda,” a study on the right-wing media’s influence on politics, said the difference between the days of the John Birch Society and today was a matter of scale. “What you didn’t get then was the same market exposure,” he said. “You didn’t have tens of millions of voters exposed.”

And the fringe never, of course, enjoyed the support of the sitting president.

Now, there is little incentive for right-wing media to provide anything other than validation of Mr. Trump’s most outrageous claims. And those who try to correct the record are punished, as Tucker Carlson of Fox News learned when he questioned Ms. Powell’s credibility and faced a backlash.

“We’re in this feedback loop where the media give the audience weapons and tools with which to deny reality,” Mr. Benkler said. “And the audience disciplines the media by threatening to go somewhere even wackier if they don’t toe the line.”

When Mr. Trump’s allies filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court last week that legal experts said had a scant chance of success, there was little mention of its flaws in the media most loyal to him. Most talk instead focused on the president’s framing of the lawsuit as “the big one.” Mr. Limbaugh noted there was support for the case among 18 Republican attorneys general and others in the House of Representatives. Then he asked about those still sitting on the sidelines.

“Where are the other Republicans?” he asked. “Don’t they realize, if the Democrats are allowed to get away with stealing the White House, they’re never going to stop stealing elections?”

 westslope wrote:
 
Frankly, this is a good thing. Can you imagine the environmental damage they would do and having to go constantly fetching them when they get their sorry asses in trouble? Besides, there isn't enough wilderness for everybody.

Jiggz wrote:

The fact that it's from four years ago, predicting an imminent civil war (spoiler alert—which didn't happen, despite massive social unrest, a pandemic, an attempted impeachment, and constant boogaloo cheerleading) makes it less relevant. The sky remains stubbornly in place.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

And if you can't preserve: lost social status = resentment.

 steeler wrote:

You know the drill. They are not "pussies", they are all "alphas!" (Or was it alfalfas?)

 Jiggz wrote:
 
So, getting back to noenz’s question: Your answer seems to be that the “enemy” is those you consider to be weak.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 
Gee, NoEnz.   You are on fire this morning!  

Sadly, I reckon that most North Americans — including Canadians — start to get anxious and nervous if they find themselves more than a kilometer from the nearest road.  Unfortunately, and I personally view this as a big tragedy, many, if most First Nations are in a similar situation.  FN children that were parcelled out to white parents were more likely to learn serious bush skills than if they had remained in their communities.   Health outcomes are horrible.   Sad.  Tragic.  

Your point about entitlements is probably correct and yet curious.  The USA has gone through so many technologically-driven economic upheavals for most of its history and came out on top yet this information technology economy appears to be causing real, serious challenges.

What happened this time?   Much of the US economy is still ahead of the global economy on many fronts yet there is this stubborn structural unemployment in several parts of the country and some real economic and health despair that has sunk in in some of those areas.  

Economic innovation inevitably creates winners and losers in the near term.  In the past, the USA came through with enviable flying colours.  Not so much now.  The US labour market used to be the envy of so many because it was so flexible and quick to adapt.   For fun, compare to the high structural unemployment and lower material standards of living of France, for example.

What happened?  

 Jiggz wrote:
 
There is no election fight (it's over). I was willing to accept Trump if he won but he didn't and therefore Trump supporters need to do the same with Biden. The fact that you have a sitting president simply unwilling to accept the results and attempting to burn the house down to get his way is unconscionable. What if Gore tried to pull this kind of crap?
 
Any unrest or future violence that Trump's unwillingness to concede causes... will be his full responsibility.
 
I am sick and tired of an unqualified, selfish narcissist whose only goal is to serve himself... continuing to mislead this country. Biden shouldn't have to deal with everything that is on his plate and any fallout from Trump's fairytale bullsh*t too.

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade confronted White House adviser Stephen Miller on Monday about Donald Trump’s mountain of failed lawsuits to overturn election results, asking how the president’s legal team lost so many cases if there was so much fraud.

“Stephen, so if there were underage people voting, if there were criminals voting, if there was illegal ballots cast, your legal team, in almost every state, 50 times, lost ― some with Trump judges. So, do you have the worst legal team, who just don’t seem to be presenting a good case?” Kilmeade asked on “Fox & Friends.”

To which Miller blamed the media.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 

Yep. And the people who think they are free, but need an arsenal to protect them from the hordes that are just outside their door. 

btw, the pasty white-boys supporting Trump are about as far away from the pioneering spirit as you can get. I wouldn't trust them to survive a week in the bush before they broke down into a pathetic blubbering heap. This is not about individual liberty at all. It's about preserving the undeserved entitlements they have become accustomed to. 

 Jiggz wrote:
 

What a typical load of crap.    This notion that unless you are a conservative, you want to be coddled and can't handle anything threating or scary is just dumb. Sure there are a few, but there as just as many conservatives that fall into the same bucket, but they want an authoritarian to keep the peace and maintain their own 'safe space'. 



 Jiggz wrote:
 
Good thing those things didn't happen.

 Jiggz wrote:
 

If you are descended from people who were brought from Africa to America on slave ships and enslaved in that great unknown, the notion of personal liberty is almost like oxygen.