To be fair with that litmus test not many Presidents in our history would pass. Carter is about the only one I can think of, but I would not want him managing my money either. In our present system, I do not think it is possible for a good person to become President and quite frankly is not necessary and even in some context contraindicated to being a good President. JFK, Clinton, Nixon and Johnson (all debateable whether they were good Presidents, but not debeatable on their dubious private lives) come to mind as recent examples of this.
Fair point...but everyone gets caught speeding in their lives, some get speeding tickets, while others have drugs, weapons and body parts in the car.
Maybe the difference between everyone you listed and Trump is timing, but his ability to completely disregard history, facts, and consequences to make whatever point about his personal greatness he wants at that moment is striking.
All of that said, your response is exactly the type I referenced. Instead of answering the question (on Kurt's behalf), you explain why he's like everyone else. He may very well be...but I want to know Kurt'sfeelings about the President. Three guys from the 1960's and one from the 1990's aren't a concern of mine for this election.
I can give you mine, I think he is a shit head much like most of the others. However he is an authentic shit head and does not try or is probably not even capable of hiding it in the slightest which is something new. Now there is an important distinction to be made here between truth and authenticity, Trump is a liar like all the rest, but he is authentic which other than Sanders, I do not think this is a trait that any of the candidates share. Maybe that is why these 2 are the only politicians that garner true excitement and mass appeal in the electorate. What you see is what you get which is not a usual trait of politicians and some are blinded by their craving for authenticity that they fully accept his shortcomings which are shared by most of our politicians. This is why you get the same ol same ol response in most cases. I cannot speak for Kurtster, will let him do that, but this is probably how most of his supporters feel just to give you some insight.
You did a pretty good job. Yeah, he is a shithead, never said he wasn't. It is the authenticity part that matters most. He is not faking it.
That and no one else was addressing the things that I consider important.
I did not vote for a Sunday school teacher. I voted for a street fighter. And I got what I voted for. My vote for Trump was not a vote against someone else, it was a vote for Trump. Sweet talkers are the one's who have got us in the messes we are in today.
NBC reporter: âIt seemed like you were almost arguing & debating with the crowd.â
Sanders: âAhh, interesting question! You know how much a ticket to the debate cost? $1,750. Most working people I know donât spend $1750 on a debate.â
I plucked this up from below... It was not written to me personally; nonetheless, I reply to it anyway because it perfectly states what appears to be Rgio's honest belief regarding what makes a righteous and worthy leader. I confess I have no clue what argument surrounds this statement made, I took no time to figure out who was on whatever point, but this jumped off the page.
Forget Trump, this is not about him. Their conversation may have been about him, but I'm just asking all of you, 1) is this truly what defines a good leader (even just decent); and 2) could one of you please name a politician perfectly fitting these criteria, religious included? Is this the critical job requirement list?
rgio wrote:
Since you
are"bumping" old comments, somewhere here in the past few weeks I asked
you if you really trust Trump. Deep down, you do believe Trump to be an
honest, good, solid, religious guy?
What I notice in many Trump supporters is the willingness to just surrender at some point and wait for the next moment to interact.
I've asked you directly several times if you trust Trump? Would you let him manage your money or date your daughter? Do you believe he's a good person?
Since you are"bumping" old comments, somewhere here in the past few weeks I asked you if you really trust Trump. Deep down, you do believe Trump to be an honest, good, solid, religious guy?
I wrote back:
Overall, I do trust Trump to be working on the things that I consider important, more than anyone else is working on those things.
Do I think Trump's personal position on religion to be solid ? I have my doubts. I did read up on that during the campaign, that he was a follower of Norman Vincent Peale and attended his church. What I do see Trump doing with religion is more the party platform than anything that he personally believes, but I can only guess and wonder about that. And the party platform may be consistent with his own beliefs or not.
During the campaign I stated that I thought Trump was not really interested in social issues and would mostly pay lip service to those. Earlier he had been a pro choice person for example as in it is none of the government's business. It is a personal choice within reason and medical safety.
His real priorities would be on economic and national security issues. The social stuff would be a side show.
Regarding your first sentence. There are just way too many things to respond to for what is basically one person, me, if you are speaking in terms of interacting here at RP. On the other hand, evidently not all responses get noticed, such as mine above to you when it was posted ...
I sincerely apologize if you "feel the Bern" but nothing worse for our country could happen than Bernie being elected. I give him credit for his passion, but its result is progression down a path of impossibly fucked outcomes. Bernie does NOT know what he is doing. His biggest life accomplishment is writing book. His entire body of work involves running for office and being in office. Sorry, that's not the slightest bit reassuring that he could run even a company, let alone a country. Indubitably, that fool would start this country down a path of ill thought-out attempts to "overhaul" our fine country that could take centuries to unwind... at any rate far longer than his stints will last, he won't even be around to help. And his ego, believe me or not, is bigger than Trump's. True statement. And this commie does not have the good sense to pick a decent VP, he's far too egocentric to have anyone near him who others may look to for leadership.
Ironically, for the sake of the future of our country, I'm going to tell you something you may find nauseating, but do it for the sake of your childrens' (and theirs) futures. VOTE TRUMP
It isnât policy positions that draw voters to Messrs. Sanders and Trump. Itâs their perceived authenticity. At a time when almost no person or institution is above reproach, the electorate craves someone who tells it like it is.
Like it is? Beyond unemployment rates at low levels, nothing he says is "as it is". Policy positions...Trump has none. Bernie isn't much better. Free everything....the billionaires will pay for that. We're gonna need a LOT more billionaires before we can afford much of his platform.
Yeah, i think the same about those duped into thinking either of these two are "authentic" in terms of being able to deliver anything they spout off about. But in terms of what Trump has actually implemented, I think his positions have synced more or less with the GOP's. That's why he's getting along so well with Moscow Mitch.
It isnât policy positions that draw voters to Messrs. Sanders and Trump. Itâs their perceived authenticity. At a time when almost no person or institution is above reproach, the electorate craves someone who tells it like it is.
Like it is? Beyond unemployment rates at low levels, nothing he says is "as it is". Policy positions...Trump has none. Bernie isn't much better. Free everything....the billionaires will pay for that. We're gonna need a LOT more billionaires before we can afford much of his platform.
The real issue is we are too lazy, frustrated, and angry to do the work necessary to know any better. It's no wonder everyone is exhausted, have you tried to understand your medical bills or investment options in your 401(k) recently? People in their 50's and 60's grew up when hard work and commitment meant a reasonably comfortable living and a retirement to look forward to. First pensions went away, then we all had to have lives worthy of Instagram (trips and houses and clothes and cars), then our parents ran out of money right when their healthcare bills skyrocketed and we lost our jobs. Immigration, globalization, automation...someone has to be blamed for that....blame the government.
So now a guy who says what half of the country feels comes along and says "drain the swamp". Make America Great Again! Sure...your glass is half full, but it can be empty before you get another drink if you're not careful. Every time you raise your glass to toast "the guy telling it like it is", he and his cronies are catching what spills out. Another victory celebration, and pretty soon you won't have anything left in your glass...the liquid will have been used to fill his swimming pools.
It isnât policy positions that draw voters to Messrs. Sanders and Trump. Itâs their perceived authenticity. At a time when almost no person or institution is above reproach, the electorate craves someone who tells it like it is. From government to churches and from universities to Wall Street, many Americans feel let down and lied to. You canât even trust baseball anymore. So listening to someone give you the raw, unvarnished truth is very appealing.
Mr. Sandersâs fundamental strategy: He isolates his target group, demonizes it, and relentlessly attacks. Sound familiar? Replace billionaires with illegal immigrants and throw in a huge helping of the âmainstream media is unfair to me,â and you have a perfect match. Mr. Sanders is exploiting the same sentiments that Mr. Trump rode to the presidency on in 2016.
Maybe, maybe not. Other than personality particularly in that Obama was very smooth, charming and cosmopolitan while he was lying to his bedazzled supporters while Trump has a more direct approach by just lying and throwing the red meat of insults to his rabid supporters. However they probably share a lot more qualities than one might think other than being the prerequisite narcissist required for the job. I have already pointed out a lot of similarities between the two in respect to how they run the country, in particular in regards to attitudes toward whistleblowers, absolute disregard of the deficit and love of executive power. I do agree that it is silly to throw bombs, which is why I am in full support of non intervention policy and bringing all of our troops home.
Take out the twitter rants, rally speeches...the 'decorum' and what do you get? A fairly effective GOP platform. Lower taxes, regulations, strong defense spending, conservative judges....That's why he is getting support from the right now, because he 's in line with the GOP agenda. And I agree with Kurt to an extent that few are willing to debate trump based on his policies alone. You can't ignore the lousy decorum, which itself is very important, but you can debate the specific policies alone.
Turning this back to the subject... I support universal healthcare, cheaper education...a more equitable society, and I am even willing to take a sharp hit to my investments to get there. Sacrifice for the greater good? But...
I haven't yet heard a reasonable plan to implement, and certainly no reasonable way to finance. Just as I haven't heard a reasonable plan to offset a tax cut.
Even if there was a good plan, how do you get it done in light of how our gov works? A system not very good at making sharp lefts or rights. Obama couldnt get universal care done, and had to settle for a highly diluted, business friendly ACA model. Trump couldnt get obamacare reversed, even with GOP controlled senate/house. Ergo, you see the increasing use and abuse of executive orders.
But lets ignore that latter point...what is the plan to keep our system from spiraling downward? Because the Norwegians did it? They did/do...but that is the system they developed historically. Ours is built on something quite different. How do you unravel that, with the least amount of pain?
Regarding the funding...each party is focused on giving their base what they want, without regard for the cost. GOP will give everyone low taxes, Dems social programs. No one cares about the deficit...or you can't care about the deficit. How do you balance a budget? Raise taxes? Maybe, but that takes $ out of consumers, leading to lower spending, gdp growth. Cut spending? Maybe, but that leads also leads to less GDP growth, and promises to your constituents, be it social or defense funding.
I can give you mine, I think he is a shit head much like most of the others. However he is an authentic shit head and does not try or is probably not even capable of hiding it in the slightest which is something new. Now there is an important distinction to be made here between truth and authenticity, Trump is a liar like all the rest, but he is authentic which other than Sanders, I do not think this is a trait that any of the candidates share. Maybe that is why these 2 are the only politicians that garner true excitement and mass appeal in the electorate. What you see is what you get which is not a usual trait of politicians and some are blinded by their craving for authenticity that they fully accept his shortcomings which are shared by most of our politicians. This is why you get the same ol same ol response in most cases. I cannot speak for Kurtster, will let him do that, but this is probably how most of his supporters feel just to give you some insight.
Okay, we have a lot of agreement here. But my opinion is that this is not what we want in a president/leader. Authenticity is, but so is integrity, and a strong moral center, and some level of empathy.
Especially when we are talking about a leader, I'll take an fake guy giving lip service to morality and integrity as long as he manages to try to implement some policies with those goals/ideals in mind over an 'authentic' asshole, who is openly fomenting class warfare and openly (and corruptly) catering to his own self interest. A pushback on fakery is fine, but what you got is not better.
Yea this is true. There are many facets to this discussion on what is good and bad for our leaders. I think Sanders has integrity, honesty and other than he needs to live a more frugal lifestyle to match the sacrifices he wishes us to make and his message, I think he is a good person. However he would be an absolute disaster for our country as a leader imo. I think the best candidate out of all that is out there now is "other", but Sanders is the only one that is immediately dangerous to the Republic. Oh the irony, a rare, honest and good man in this position is the most dangerous. Life is so full of these contradictions. I still maintain that our destruction will come wrapped in a message of love and compassion as civilization rolls on.
I can give you mine, I think he is a shit head much like most of the others. However he is an authentic shit head and does not try or is probably not even capable of hiding it in the slightest which is something new. Now there is an important distinction to be made here between truth and authenticity, Trump is a liar like all the rest, but he is authentic which other than Sanders, I do not think this is a trait that any of the candidates share. Maybe that is why these 2 are the only politicians that garner true excitement and mass appeal in the electorate. What you see is what you get which is not a usual trait of politicians and some are blinded by their craving for authenticity that they fully accept his shortcomings which are shared by most of our politicians. This is why you get the same ol same ol response in most cases. I cannot speak for Kurtster, will let him do that, but this is probably how most of his supporters feel just to give you some insight.
Okay, we have a lot of agreement here. But my opinion is that this is not what we want in a president/leader. Authenticity is, but so is integrity, and a strong moral center, and some level of empathy.
Especially when we are talking about a leader, I'll take an fake guy giving lip service to morality and integrity as long as he manages to try to implement some policies with those goals/ideals in mind over an 'authentic' asshole, who is openly fomenting class warfare and openly (and corruptly) catering to his own self interest. A pushback on fakery is fine, but what you got is not better.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Feb 24, 2020 - 8:17am
sirdroseph wrote:
Maybe, but it is splitting hairs because con man is a necessary attribute for most politicians as well. Most of them are just more sophisticated when working the con.
Even if one agrees that all politicians engage in some conning of the American people on this or that issue, policy, or action, it is a matter of degree. The salient difference is that Trump is a con man in all aspects of his life.
edit: I also point out that you were making the case that Trump is different from almost all politicians because he is authentic. Now you seem to be arguing that all politicians are like Trump in being authentic con men and women.
