Almost universally*, from leaders in Europe and Asia to current and former American officials, Ukraine is being viewed as a test for the survival of a 75-year-old idea: that liberal democracy, American military might and free trade can create the conditions for peace and global prosperity.
Because the founder of that concept, the United States, continues to struggle â with partisanship, Covid and failure in distant war zones â many foreign policy leaders already see Ukraine in dire terms, as marking an official end of the American era and the start of a more contested, multipolar moment.
For at least a decade, liberal democracies have been disappearing. Their numbers peaked in 2012 with 42 countries, and now there are just 34, home to only 13 percent of the world population, according to V-Dem, a nonprofit that studies governments. In many of those, including the United States, âtoxic polarizationâ is on the rise.
conditioning and indoctrination
it's not just blatant lying/agitprop
controlling/suppressing relevant information and criminalizing free speech
putin is erasing/eradicating the ukrainian infrastructure, the culture and a lot of the people
(and china just moved to close the last remaining uyghur cultural center earlier this week?)
human rights be damned
I guess it might be a bit like Vietnam... when the boys start coming home in coffins, the mood might slowly swing.
conditioning and indoctrination
it's not just blatant lying/agitprop
controlling/suppressing relevant information and criminalizing free speech
putin is erasing/eradicating the ukrainian infrastructure, the culture and a lot of the people
(and china just moved to close the last remaining uyghur cultural center earlier this week?)
human rights be damned
I guess it might be a bit like Vietnam... when the boys start coming home in coffins, the mood might slowly swing.
What coffins? The Russians are cremating the dead, not taking them home. Putin's popularity within Russia is up 10 points since invading. Russia is a lot like the US in that there are 2 populations, the city dwellers....educated, connected, skeptical, and considerate of options (the coasts in the US...to generalize), and those who are emotional, overly patriotic, very tribal, subject to misinformation and conspiracy (fly-over country). If anyone thinks the masses are going to protest in Russia and force Putin out....you're going to be disappointed in how long that could take. The best hope is that some of the elites get fed up and take him down.
Again sadly have to agree with this. On that point there is something a bit sick about big countries. Not just the aggressor ones but all the ones I've been to. They are so huge, their people get really insular and think what their government does must be ok, partly because those other nations are so tiny and so far over the horizon, they just don't bear thinking about, if they even know their names or what they stand for.
Despite the odd ray of light to the contrary, most Russians seem to have bought into this NATO encroachment thesis hook, line and sinker. It's the old fear of invasion (well I wonder where that came from) and they seriously believe their country is under attack and Putin is defending them, even if he has to take drastic action.
Crazy shit. But I think we need to reach out to ordinary Russians a whole lot more. No idea how to do it, mind now that virtually all communication is blocked off.
"Our side" still needs some more messaging to get there...
I guess it might be a bit like Vietnam... when the boys start coming home in coffins, the mood might slowly swing.
What coffins? The Russians are cremating the dead, not taking them home. Easier to keep support for missing and possibly captured soldiers than for dead ones.
Putin's popularity within Russia is up 10 points since invading. Russia is a lot like the US in that there are 2 populations, the city dwellers....educated, connected, skeptical, and considerate of options (the coasts in the US...to generalize), and those who are emotional, overly patriotic, very tribal, subject to misinformation and conspiracy (fly-over country).
If anyone thinks the masses are going to protest in Russia and force Putin out....you're going to be disappointed in how long that could take. The best hope is that some of the elites get fed up and take him down.
Interesting weekend, taking supplies across to the relief effort, like just about everyone else here in town (they have been absolutely inundated), through to speaking with a neighbour whose Polish friend is married to a Russian and lives in St. Petersburg. Despite the odd ray of light to the contrary, most Russians seem to have bought into this NATO encroachment thesis hook, line and sinker. It's the old fear of invasion (well I wonder where that came from) and they seriously believe their country is under attack and Putin is defending them, even if he has to take drastic action. Crazy shit. But I think we need to reach out to ordinary Russians a whole lot more. No idea how to do it, mind now that virtually all communication is blocked off.
classic authoritarian media control putin knows if the people knew the truth they'd probably protest en masse small sample below
I guess it might be a bit like Vietnam... when the boys start coming home in coffins, the mood might slowly swing.
Interesting weekend, taking supplies across to the relief effort, like just about everyone else here in town (they have been absolutely inundated), through to speaking with a neighbour whose Polish friend is married to a Russian and lives in St. Petersburg. Despite the odd ray of light to the contrary, most Russians seem to have bought into this NATO encroachment thesis hook, line and sinker. It's the old fear of invasion (well I wonder where that came from) and they seriously believe their country is under attack and Putin is defending them, even if he has to take drastic action.
Crazy shit. But I think we need to reach out to ordinary Russians a whole lot more. No idea how to do it, mind now that virtually all communication is blocked off.
classic authoritarian media control
putin knows if the people knew the truth they'd probably protest en masse
small sample below
He couldn’t maintain popular support after this move, and like any good billionaire, just said “F**k it, I’ll build my own nationwide Jewish organisation and fill it with people who won’t dissent”
This man is pretty obviously just a grifter and a mobster, who rips off eastern European oligarchs with contract fraud,
anti-semitic much?
Funny thing, I've noticed that just about every other Ukrainian of the 41 million who make up the country have also politely asked the Russians to go home, they weren't invited. And every other former Eastern bloc country, with the exception of Serbia stands fully behind Ukraine. Now, why would that be, do you think?
Interesting weekend, taking supplies across to the relief effort, like just about everyone else here in town (they have been absolutely inundated), through to speaking with a neighbour whose Polish friend is married to a Russian and lives in St. Petersburg. Despite the odd ray of light to the contrary, most Russians seem to have bought into this NATO encroachment thesis hook, line and sinker. It's the old fear of invasion (well I wonder where that came from) and they seriously believe their country is under attack and Putin is defending them, even if he has to take drastic action.
Crazy shit. But I think we need to reach out to ordinary Russians a whole lot more. No idea how to do it, mind now that virtually all communication is blocked off.
Although USA does identical in many countries, such as Yemen, Syria...
Palestine.
i know you're "new" here, please peruse the anti-war thread
and you'll see that i've had a principled take on the initiation of force, violence and coercion since forever
How did Volodymyr Zelensky rise from a comedian acting as President in a TV show to becoming the President of Ukraine? Who is behind his rise? These are legitimate questions particularly when Zelensky became a household name in the US for the key role he played in the first impeachment of President Trump, which was also attached to the Trump-Russia hoax and the discredited Steele Dossier.
Aristophanes Tragedy, a self-declared former heavily armed parking lot attendant, did a little digging on this rise of Volodymyr Zelensky and wrote his findings in a twitter thread.
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He couldnât maintain popular support after this move, and like any good billionaire, just said âF**k it, Iâll build my own nationwide Jewish organisation and fill it with people who wonât dissentâ
Letâs talk about what an absolute crook this dude is.
Kolomoyskyi stole billions of dollars from Ukrainian banks and transferred it to the US under the pretence of funding a steel company, only for the money to go underground and another rust belt industry to shutter its doors.
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This man is pretty obviously just a grifter and a mobster, who rips off eastern European oligarchs with contract fraud, and hides behind the Western dislike for those same oligarchs to prevent his prosecution. But we did mention he was on Poroshenkoâs s**t list, right?
He was dismissed as governor of the Dnipro area oblast in 2014, and immediately turned around and helped ensure that âServant of the Peopleâ, the show where Zelensky acted as president, was aired on his 1+1 network in Ukraine, of which he owns 70 percent.
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Pandora Papers
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property, The Pandora Papers website states.
âIn the heat of the campaign, a political ally of President Poroshenko published a chart purporting that Zelensky and his television production partners were beneficiaries of a web of offshore firms that allegedly received $41 million in funds from Kolomoiskyâs Privatbank.â
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World Economic Forum
While there are no obvious ties between Kolomoisky and the World Economic Forum (âWEFâ), there are obvious ties with Zelensky. For starters, he has a profile on WEFâs website.
It is no surprise then that the World Economic Forum (WEF) have thrown their support behind Ukraine, vowing to do âwhatever is possible to helpâ the country. As RT reported: on Sunday, Schwab and WEF President Borge Brende said they âdeeply condemn the aggression by Russia against Ukraineâ and âthe attacks and atrocities.â
But could there be more to WEFâs intervention than simply networking with one of its members? Could their Ukraine stance be because WEF, or rather the select financial institutions, corporations and individuals it represents, has vested interests in Ukraine?
During a February 2020 speech to the World Economic Forum, which took place just a few months before the WEFâs controversial âGreat Resetâ meeting, the newly âelectedâ Ukrainian President Zelensky said:
âI would like to note the projects of the Forum for Ukraine, and namely: Scenarios of the Future for Ukraine; Geneva initiative for Ukraine; the new economic vision for Ukraine. And I thank you for what has already been done and I count on the further fruitful cooperation.
Looking at the projects Zelensky thanked WEF for, it makes one wonder who is actually running Ukraine and who is actually to blame for Ukrainian people now finding themselves at the center of what Boris Johnson calls âthe biggest war in Europe since 1945.â
Scenarios for Ukraine is where 300 decision-makers, government, business and civil society leaders as well as leading experts sketched out different pathways for Ukraineâs future economic development. These WEF âdecision-makersâ published their report on 11 April 2014.
Geneva Ukraine Initiative is where business leaders from Ukraine, the Russian Federation, Europe and the United States gathered in Geneva, on 14 September 2014, and worked out 10 proposals, to help resolve the conflict. âThe group calls for a summit of top political leaders as soon as possible,â the WEF announced.
Itâs worth noting, at this time, while business leaders mapped out the future for Ukraine, Zelensky was prancing his way to fame.**
