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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 87, 88, 89  Next
Post to this Topic
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Mar 24, 2023 - 6:35pm

 thisbody wrote:
China's success in brokering a deal between Iran and Saudia Arabia does not translate into China's ability to do the same between Ukraine and Russia.

That said, I am open to multiple parties helping to broker a deal:

- the French, 
- the Turkish
- Israel (of all countries....)
- Norway (but let's not forget that Norway brokered the failed Oslo Peace Accords)

This civil war-like proxy conflict should never have happened.

US hegemony is already taking a hit and if this conflict drags and drags, US hegemony will continue to 'take a hit'.

Please note, I am not Jeffrey Sachs.  I view hegemony as a good thing.  Canada, Norway and other rich western countries have a vested interest in a strong USA.

thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Location: Nose Hill
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 24, 2023 - 5:27pm

Why Ukraine may embrace China’s peace plan
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 24, 2023 - 12:10pm

Ukraine On The Backfoot; Russia Is ‘Winning’ The Bloody Battle Like How North Swept The American Civil War
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Mar 12, 2023 - 2:54pm

 R_P wrote:
Ukraine’s Death by Proxy (Hedges)
Ukraine is a pawn for militarists intent on degrading Russia and ultimately China in a self-defeating quest to ensure U.S. global hegemony. The end of this war, like most proxy wars, will be ugly.
There are many ways for a state to project power and weaken adversaries, but proxy wars are one of the most cynical. Proxy wars devour the countries they purport to defend. They entice nations or insurgents to fight for geopolitical goals that are ultimately not in their interest. The war in Ukraine has little to do with Ukrainian freedom and a lot to do with degrading the Russian military and weakening Vladimir Putin’s grip on power. And when Ukraine looks headed for defeat, or the war reaches a stalemate, Ukraine will be sacrificed like many other states, in what one of the founding members of the CIA, Miles Copeland Jr., referred to as the “Game of Nations” and “the amorality of power politics.”

I covered proxy wars in my two decades as a foreign correspondent, including in Central America where the U.S. armed the military regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala and Contra insurgents attempting to overthrow the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. I reported on the insurgency in the Punjab, a proxy war fomented by Pakistan. I covered the Kurds in northern Iraq, backed and then betrayed more than once by Iran and Washington. During my time in the Middle East, Iraq provided weapons and support to the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq (MEK) to destabilize Iran. Belgrade, when I was in the former Yugoslavia, thought by arming Bosnian and Croatian Serbs, it could absorb Bosnia and parts of Croatia into a greater Serbia.

Proxy wars are notoriously hard to control, especially when the aspirations of those doing the fighting and those sending the weapons diverge. They also have a bad habit of luring sponsors of proxy wars, as happened to the U.S. in Vietnam and Israel in Lebanon, directly into the conflict. Proxy armies are given weaponry with little accountability, significant amounts of which end up on the black market or in the hands of warlords or terrorists. CBS News reported last year that around 30 percent of the weapons sent to Ukraine make it to the front lines, a report it chose to partially retract under heavy pressure from Kyiv and Washington. The widespread diversion of donated military and medical equipment to the black market in Ukraine was also documented by U.S. journalist Lindsey Snell. Weapons in war zones are lucrative commodities. There were always large quantities for sale in the wars I covered.

Warlords, gangsters and thugs — Ukraine has long been considered one of the most corrupt countries in Europe — are transformed by sponsor states into heroic freedom fighters. Support for those fighting these proxy wars is a celebration of our supposed national virtue, especially seductive after two decades of military fiascos in the Middle East. Joe Biden, with dismal poll numbers, intends to run for a second term as a “wartime” president who stands with Ukraine, to which the U.S. has already committed $113 billion in military, economic and humanitarian assistance.

When Russia invaded Ukraine “(t)he whole world faced a test for the ages,” Biden said after a lightning visit to Kyiv. “Europe was being tested. America was being tested. NATO was being tested. All democracies were being tested.”

I heard similar sentiments expressed to justify other proxy wars.(...)



So, Richard, what would you have done for/in Ukraine? No links, just your perspective.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 12, 2023 - 2:00pm

Ukraine’s Death by Proxy (Hedges)
Ukraine is a pawn for militarists intent on degrading Russia and ultimately China in a self-defeating quest to ensure U.S. global hegemony. The end of this war, like most proxy wars, will be ugly.
There are many ways for a state to project power and weaken adversaries, but proxy wars are one of the most cynical. Proxy wars devour the countries they purport to defend. They entice nations or insurgents to fight for geopolitical goals that are ultimately not in their interest. The war in Ukraine has little to do with Ukrainian freedom and a lot to do with degrading the Russian military and weakening Vladimir Putin’s grip on power. And when Ukraine looks headed for defeat, or the war reaches a stalemate, Ukraine will be sacrificed like many other states, in what one of the founding members of the CIA, Miles Copeland Jr., referred to as the “Game of Nations” and “the amorality of power politics.”

I covered proxy wars in my two decades as a foreign correspondent, including in Central America where the U.S. armed the military regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala and Contra insurgents attempting to overthrow the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. I reported on the insurgency in the Punjab, a proxy war fomented by Pakistan. I covered the Kurds in northern Iraq, backed and then betrayed more than once by Iran and Washington. During my time in the Middle East, Iraq provided weapons and support to the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq (MEK) to destabilize Iran. Belgrade, when I was in the former Yugoslavia, thought by arming Bosnian and Croatian Serbs, it could absorb Bosnia and parts of Croatia into a greater Serbia.

Proxy wars are notoriously hard to control, especially when the aspirations of those doing the fighting and those sending the weapons diverge. They also have a bad habit of luring sponsors of proxy wars, as happened to the U.S. in Vietnam and Israel in Lebanon, directly into the conflict. Proxy armies are given weaponry with little accountability, significant amounts of which end up on the black market or in the hands of warlords or terrorists. CBS News reported last year that around 30 percent of the weapons sent to Ukraine make it to the front lines, a report it chose to partially retract under heavy pressure from Kyiv and Washington. The widespread diversion of donated military and medical equipment to the black market in Ukraine was also documented by U.S. journalist Lindsey Snell. Weapons in war zones are lucrative commodities. There were always large quantities for sale in the wars I covered.

Warlords, gangsters and thugs — Ukraine has long been considered one of the most corrupt countries in Europe — are transformed by sponsor states into heroic freedom fighters. Support for those fighting these proxy wars is a celebration of our supposed national virtue, especially seductive after two decades of military fiascos in the Middle East. Joe Biden, with dismal poll numbers, intends to run for a second term as a “wartime” president who stands with Ukraine, to which the U.S. has already committed $113 billion in military, economic and humanitarian assistance.

When Russia invaded Ukraine “(t)he whole world faced a test for the ages,” Biden said after a lightning visit to Kyiv. “Europe was being tested. America was being tested. NATO was being tested. All democracies were being tested.”

I heard similar sentiments expressed to justify other proxy wars.(...)

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 11, 2023 - 11:06pm

 R_P wrote:
"the author is plainly not pro-Russian or pro-Yanukovych"




R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 11, 2023 - 12:57pm


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 7, 2023 - 1:39pm

The Conversation About Ukraine Is Cracking Apart (Walt)
What government officials are saying in public, and private, is fascinating—and full of contradictions.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 5, 2023 - 3:20pm

They’re lobbying for Ukraine pro bono – and making millions from arms firms 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 23, 2023 - 7:03am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Ukraine

The secret diary of a Ukrainian soldier: death and drones on the eastern front

He had never been to war before. Then he was sent to defend Bakhmut from the Russians

{{register for a free account to read it}}






ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2023 - 8:34pm


Ukraine

The secret diary of a Ukrainian soldier: death and drones on the eastern front

He had never been to war before. Then he was sent to defend Bakhmut from the Russians

{{register for a free account to read it}}


VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 21, 2023 - 1:16pm

In short: The only thing more f*cked up than the Russian Army was Trump's presidency.
 
...and that's a low bar.

Russian Troops Film Appeal to Putin: 'We Do Not Know Who Our Commander Is'

Russian Soldiers Accidentally Blow Themselves Up Using Cooking Stove—Report

Moe, Larry & Curley would be proud...
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 20, 2023 - 5:33pm

Alina
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 16, 2023 - 4:12pm

Those nutty Russians are falling out of buildings again...
 
Who knew that a nation could be so full of people prone to losing their balance in high elevations?
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 2:43pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Best numbers I can find are from Estonia. It's easy to find out how many Ukrainians have taken shelter in various countries, harder to get information about which borders they crossed to get there. The article I linked to is almost a year old, numbers are probably much higher by now, but as of May last year 20K Ukrainians had crossed from Russia. Estonia has about 60K Ukrainian refugees in residence now.

Indeed. 60K is about right.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 2:30pm

 R_P wrote:
I guess you must have another source for that assertion since the linked article, mostly based on interviews with 35 people, doesn't seem to include it.

Assuming you meant after being in Russia.

Best numbers I can find are from Estonia. It's easy to find out how many Ukrainians have taken shelter in various countries, harder to get information about which borders they crossed to get there. The article I linked to is almost a year old, numbers are probably much higher by now, but as of May last year 20K Ukrainians had crossed from Russia. Estonia has about 60K Ukrainian refugees in residence now.
Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 1:30pm

 R_P wrote:

I guess you must have another source for that assertion since the linked article, mostly based on interviews with 35 people, doesn't seem to include it.


Nice apologist banter you have there.  It would be a shame if it was outed.

The Guardian: Thousands of Ukrainian children put through Russian ‘re-education’ camps, US report finds
"New report details network of dozens of Russian camps aimed at giving children pro-Moscow views, with some children detained indefinitely"

The Yale report the story links to: YaleHRL_Systematic.Reeducation.Transfer.2023.02.14.1237.pdf (PDF)

Twitter: Russia Embassy in USA utters lies
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 1:14pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Not all of them voluntarily. And a great many are crossing the country to flee to western Europe.

I guess you must have another source for that assertion since the linked article, mostly based on interviews with 35 people, doesn't seem to include it.

Assuming you meant after being in Russia.

Beaker

Beaker Avatar

Location: Your safe space


Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 12:27pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Not all of them voluntarily. And a great many are crossing the country to flee to western Europe.


THIS.  ^^^
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 15, 2023 - 12:21pm

 R_P wrote:
And an influx of refugees. Russia has ~2M.

Not all of them voluntarily. And a great many are crossing the country to flee to western Europe.
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