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Index » Regional/Local » Europe » Ukraine Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 121, 122, 123  Next
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islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 6:24pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


I gave up trying to figure out Richard some years ago. No matter what side you're on, he's on the other.

I see....
Hey Richard - I'm pro Breathing oxygen, Come at me bro!
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 6:23pm

 islander wrote:
Trying to read between the lines you scrawl, but War is bad right? Billionaires sending others to die in war is bad right? Oligarchs invading other countries for 'reasons', causing war would be bad... right?  These are things we should all oppose.

Obviously. And that includes making them worse. Or provoking them. Or starting them under false pretenses. Etc., etc.

War is a racket.
Red_Dragon

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Location: Gilead


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 6:23pm

 islander wrote:


Trying to read between the lines you scrawl, but War is bad right? Billionaires sending others to die in war is bad right? Oligarchs invading other countries for 'reasons', causing war would be bad... right?  These are things we should all oppose.


I gave up trying to figure out Richard some years ago. No matter what side you're on, he's on the other.
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 6:20pm

 R_P wrote:
Trump Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine
The pause applies to weapons that are already in transit

Maybe Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations, 1776) can help you out.

Glory Be!


Trying to read between the lines you scrawl, but War is bad right? Billionaires sending others to die in war is bad right? Oligarchs invading other countries for 'reasons', causing war would be bad... right?  These are things we should all oppose.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 3:51pm

Trump Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine
The pause applies to weapons that are already in transit

 islander wrote:
I'm going to have a beer or four with Scott and see if we can find your point.

Maybe Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations, 1776) can help you out.

Glory Be!
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 3:33pm

 R_P wrote:
Ukraine, Diplomacy and War
When politicians in power are extremely unpopular, they generally turn to militarism and jingoism for a quick boost. Starmer is now the darling of the UK media for his sabre-rattling over Ukraine and is busily churning out tweets of military imagery.
Craig Murray


And putin and trump are posting pictures of kittens and fields of daises?  

I'm going to have a beer or four with Scott and see if we can find your point.
R_P

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 2:23pm

Ukraine, Diplomacy and War
When politicians in power are extremely unpopular, they generally turn to militarism and jingoism for a quick boost. Starmer is now the darling of the UK media for his sabre-rattling over Ukraine and is busily churning out tweets of military imagery.
Craig Murray
R_P

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 2:00pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I have not one clue what point you're trying to make. 

Instead of being oppositional I thought I'd give you some (misguided) notions to agree with.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 1:18pm

 R_P wrote:
Here's the Democrats' heroine and secret weapon for winning elections...


Reminder for the feisty people to have some skin in the game:

Because clearly this is an existential threat (like Hitler, except you don't need a time machine to go back)


I have not one clue what point you're trying to make. 
R_P

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 11:45am

Here's the Democrats' heroine and secret weapon for winning elections...


Reminder for the feisty people to have some skin in the game:

Because clearly this is an existential threat (like Hitler, except you don't need a time machine to go back)
VV

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 11:38am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


I hate to break it to you, but with Musk and Trump at the helm, the US now looks very much like a satellite state of Russia. So that particular game is lost already. *

At any rate, the US is no longer acting as an independent state but as a vassal of Russia, which is enough.

So, Ruzzia wins game! HA! HA! HAA!  
Spasibo Kurtster!! 

Next stop Europe!  

*(Although I do think the citizens of the US have a small window of opportunity left to wrest control away from its Russian agents, but you'd better move fast. Don't assume you can just wait out until the next elections, because there aren't going to be any, at least not fair and open ones).

…fyi you aren’t breaking anything to me. It’s pretty clear we won’t have Ukraine’s back.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 11:06am

Russian propaganda: The West has always wanted to destroy Russia 

 

Jeffrey Sachs: “It all started 170 years ago, when Britain wanted to surround the Russian Empire and deprive it of its status as a great power in the Black Sea region and prevent it from having access to the Black Sea, and this policy was continued by Brzezinski.”

Fact-check: The Crimean War was started by the Russian Empire because of its adventurous dream of capturing the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. To this end, Russia even at one point sought to enter into an alliance with Great Britain. But when the Russian Empire invaded Moldova, it started a war against the Ottoman Empire and, by extension, its allies France and Britain. 

 

Moreover, the victors in this war did not claim any of the Russian Empire’s ports on the Black Sea. They returned all the cities captured in Crimea to the tsar. This would be a strange way to “surround” the Russian Empire and limit its influence in the Black Sea region. In addition, no one planned to strengthen the Ottoman Empire at Russia’s expense. 

Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security advisor to U.S. President Jimmy Carter, in his books “The Grand Chessboard” and “A Strategic View: America and the Global Crisis,” promoted a different strategy for Russia by involving it in global economic cooperation.

Russian propaganda: NATO promised Russia not to expand, and NATO expansion poses a threat to Russia’s existence.

 

Geoffrey Sachs: “In 2007, Putin made the right speech in Munich, where he said that [Soviet President Mikhail] Gorbachev was promised in 1990 that NATO would not expand, that U.S. Secretary of State [James] Baker promised that NATO would not move an inch east.”

Fact-check: Gorbachev and Baker did indeed hold talks on German reunification and the future of NATO in 1990, during which Baker repeatedly said that a united Germany would be part of NATO. In fact, he argued that this would be in the interest of both the U.S. and the Soviet Union, because “if Germany is not rooted in the existing security structure, then a state will emerge in the center of Europe that will be concerned with securing its security in a different way…by remaining in NATO, Germany can more easily give up nuclear, chemical and biological capabilities.”

The U.S. proposal was a united Germany, in NATO, with reduced military potential, and that no nuclear weapons or their carriers would be deployed in the former East Germany. This was eventually included in the treaty signed on September 12, 1990. Gorbachev would later confirm in his memoirs that both Germany and the U.S. exceeded their obligations. 

 

As for the other states of the Warsaw Pact, there was were no discussions about NATO expanding to them in 1990, because the Warsaw Pact still existed and was not formally dissolved until July 1991.

Russian propaganda: Ukraine was a military threat to Russia 

Jeffrey Sachs: “The U.S. leadership said it wanted to bring Ukraine to its side and put U.S. and NATO troops on the border with Russia….The U.S. was pumping Ukraine with weapons and building the largest army in Europe, paid for by the U.S.”

 

Fact check: Regarding the creation of the largest army in Europe in Ukraine at U.S. expense, this is inconsistent with the timeline. Prior to Russia’s February 2022 invasion, Ukraine had received only a small batch of Javelins and a few Island boats from the U.S. Annual U.S. defense assistance to Ukraine in 2020, for example, amounted to just $400 million, and Ukraine’s defense budget in 2021 amounted to less than $4.5 billion — and that’s after seven years of resisting a Russian-backed incursion into eastern Ukraine that had begun in 2014. In contrast, Russia’s annual military budget for 2021 was about $66 billion.

As for the claim of wanting to “put U.S. and NATO troops on the border with Russia” in Ukraine, there is no actual evidence of such intentions. This is, rather, evocative of Russian special services’ constant propaganda campaign to spread fear that the West wants to destroy Russia and take all of its resources. 

Retired Russian FSO General Boris Ratnikov, for example, once claimed in an interview (and I am not making this up) to have used special technology in 1999 to “connect to the subconscious of Secretary of State Madeline Albright” remotely from Siberia. Albright, through her subconscious, is supposed to have said “that neither the Far East nor Siberia belongs to Russia.” 

 

This bogus Albright quote has since been cited by secretary of the Russian Security Council Nikolai Patrushev and even by Putin himself in a 2014 press conference. This illustrates the level of propaganda and brainwashing that goes on inside Russia, such that ludicrous claims can be aired in public and then laundered into credibility through a series of citations that shroud their origins.

The U.S. has always denied any interest in deploying military forces in Ukraine, especially on the Russian-Ukrainian border, and for good reason. Not only is there no appetite for such a thing in the U.S., but there wouldn’t be much of a military advantage. Lest we worry about Kremlin “misconceptions” leading to escalation, missiles take no longer to reach Moscow from Estonia (a NATO member) than they would from Kharkiv (in Ukraine, a non-NATO member).

Russian propaganda: The U.S. has deployed a NATO base in Kosovo. 

 

Sachs: “The United States has placed a NATO base in Kosovo.”

Fact check: There is no NATO base in Kosovo. The only forces in Kosovo are those of KFOR, an international force created by UN Security Council Resolution 1244, for which Russia voted in favor. KFOR is led by NATO but also includes Russia, Ukraine, and eight other non-NATO countries.

Russian propaganda: Ukrainians are against their country’s accession to NATO. 

 

Sachs: “[Former Ukrainian President Viktor] Yanukovych won the 2010 presidential election because Ukrainians did not support joining NATO.”

Fact check: Yanukovych was able to lead Ukraine at that time because of a series of conflicts within President Viktor Yushchenko’s ruling coalition. Only someone who knows nothing about Ukraine’s politics at all would attribute his rise to anything related to NATO. 

To say that Yanukovych became president of Ukraine because of the population’s reluctance to join NATO is akin to saying that Barack Obama won the U.S. presidential race in 2008 because American voters had not supported NATO’s expansion to include Poland.

 

There are many such crazy propaganda ideas in Jeffrey Sachs’ interview with Tucker Carlson — about the fraudulent referendum that Russia put on to justify its annexation of Crimea; about the so-called “uprising” in Donbas (actually conducted under Russian leaders and with Russian weapons); and about the U.S. somehow being responsible for Russia’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine.

For some reason, Sachs did not even notice the actual declaration of war on the West by Putin during his ultimatum to NATO countries in 2021

It’s time for the once-respected economist to limp out of the limelight and stop serving as Putin’s unpaid stooge.

 

Oleg Dunda is a member of Ukraine’s parliament.

islander

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 10:51am

 R_P wrote:
Trump and the viable road to peace in Ukraine
'I did not vote for him and have been critical of most of his moves. But in regard to the war...I believe he is on the right track'
Jack F. Matlock Jr.

What a load of appeasement crap. Russia can end this war tomorrow by retreating to their borders and stopping the shooting.  Ukraine was invaded without provocation. Our duty is to stand by them and demand that Russia retreat. They were emboldened by everyone's weak response to Crimea, the lesson here is that appeasement doesn't work, we need resolve and a united front of opposition. 

The whole argument put forth in the article is specious at best - Putin is mad because we let some other people into NATO, so it's understandable that he's invading his neighbors to control the seaports and it's reasonable that we should negotiate with him, giving him his occupied territories as a starting point.

R_P

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 10:07am

Trump and the viable road to peace in Ukraine
'I did not vote for him and have been critical of most of his moves. But in regard to the war...I believe he is on the right track'
Jack F. Matlock Jr.
Steely_D

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 9:36am

 steeler wrote:

Riddle me this: What did the US gain from Trump and Vance’s shout fest with Zelensky? We showed him? America First? 



The winning side in WW3. USA+Russia 4evah
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 8:55am

Riddle me this: What did the US gain from Trump and Vance’s shout fest with Zelensky? We showed him? America First? 


Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 7:35am

 R_P wrote:

There are ~70 democracies in the world. Rutte and Von der Leyen don't count (NATO & EU). That leaves 17.
www.reddit.com%2Fr%2FMapPorn%2..." target="_blank" class="redactor-autoparser-object">https://www.google.com/url?sa=...




NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 3, 2025 - 12:16am

 VV wrote:

Again you are just focused on the transactional aspect of this.
 
Try thinking bigger picture as I tried to paint but you like to ignore. The issue isn’t about the Ukraine but about Putin’s designs on trying to forcibly grow the Russian empire. 
 
If we don’t effectively stop the aggression now then it is bound to continue. Therefore if we bail on Ukraine now (which it appears we are on the verge of doing) then Putin will have won and will be emboldened to engage in future unprovoked aggression.
 
So, are you going to follow-up with another loan question? 


I hate to break it to you, but with Musk and Trump at the helm, the US now looks very much like a satellite state of Russia. So that particular game is lost already. *

At any rate, the US is no longer acting as an independent state but as a vassal of Russia, which is enough.

So, Ruzzia wins game! HA! HA! HAA!  
Spasibo Kurtster!! 

Next stop Europe!  

*(Although I do think the citizens of the US have a small window of opportunity left to wrest control away from its Russian agents, but you'd better move fast. Don't assume you can just wait out until the next elections, because there aren't going to be any, at least not fair and open ones).
haresfur

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Posted: Mar 2, 2025 - 8:03pm

 islander wrote:

Democracies of the world (with a notable absence) unite in support of Ukraine:

For a guy who really wants to project power and empire, trump really fumbled this one.


Someone should have got a message to trump that he doesn't need putin. Supposed leader of the most powerful nation in the world kisses putin's arse


islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2025 - 6:56pm

 R_P wrote:

There are ~70 democracies in the world. Rutte and Von der Leyen don't count (NATO & EU).

Trump: You don't have any cards.

Zelensky: I've got a king.


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