Lazy8 wrote: 
 

 bokey wrote: 
This is to get reimbursed for it—you can hire anybody you like and pay them as little as they'll take if you pay it out of pocket. My midmost had a gig like that for a while; a family hired him to take care of a disabled child. The problem isn't the outrageous profit (do you work for free, after all?) but the many layers of rules involved. Complying with all of them—hell, finding out what they all are—takes many full-time people. Then there's insurance to cover the risk of being sued by anybody involved at any time for any reason, the various taxes, bonds that have to be posted, certifications, etc...

We have put so many safeguards in place to insure that no one ever makes a mistake (or if they do the offended person's lawyer gets handsomely compensated) that it's putting services like that out of reach.

Kind of a metaphor for our whole healthcare system.

 bokey wrote: 
Health care in the USA does require a bank loan.

In order to get a minimally responsible person to care for my Dad, I have to pay them $40 an hour. This is for a person who takes like a 6 week CNA course who makes maybe $15 an hour themselves. The rest disappears into admin costs/profit. Ridiculous.

 arighter2 wrote: 
I'm sorry Larry, I certainly didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean any offense at all, I was only talking about how it's more expensive to pay for illness than to pay for preventative health care.

I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. Right now I am on COBRA, which the gov pays 65%. After that runs out, who knows.

 MrsHobieJoe wrote: 
And our own service is riddled with all the problems of a large government run beaurocracy...lots of middle managers and reorganisations every time a new guy gets in power, or the same old guy wants to be seen to be 'doing' something.  But from the reports I hear, its a hell of a lot better than what you guys have.  Good luck to the US in fixing itself...

 oldslabsides wrote: 
I usually cut that part off and the rest is still good with jelly.

I've got a problem with the "pre-existing condition" aspect of most health insurance policies.

 It's like a bank loan- if you really need it, it's unavailable.

 I'm not saying that companies should be forced to take on clients that they know will cost them financially,   but clearly our health care system is broken so badly that there is no excuse for it not being our nations #1 priority.

 oldslabsides wrote: 
I apologize for the selling out comment. It was part of an awkward way of making the point that the present situation, from which you benefit,  is set up so many people, even working people, are economically disqualified.
As for me, I've suffered through a lifetime of schizophrenia precisely because I believed it was my responsibility to fix myself. Even though, because of the disease, I could never figure out what was wrong. I'm glad society finally intervened. Today, i get free medications and counseling, but I still don't have non-psychological health care.

 Lazy8 wrote: 
The crux of the biscuit.

 arighter2 wrote: 
The only way a society can be responsible for individuals is if those individuals abdicate their responsibility for themselves to it.

I realize my view doesn't have many subscribers, but I'm not attacking you personally.  Your health issues have been great and I don't pretend to know how much that effects your perspective.  As for "selling out to the man and taking his bennies" yes, I have in that regard and how I deal with that is my own little battle of principle verses pragmatism.

respect.

 oldslabsides wrote:
 
This need not become a semantic argument. People confuse the definitions of right and entitlement all the time. Correcting this, even if you can do it, won't resolve the issue. Philosophical consistency means nothing to most people—they care if their needs are met.

 oldslabsides wrote:  I think it is the responsibility of any advanced society to make certain medical care is provided to its people.. .

 arighter2 wrote: 
So, are you saying you do feel health care is a right?

 oldslabsides wrote:Like freedom to the slaves of yore, something that was not their legal right, so is the right to health care, shelter, food, clean water and the respect of dignity a de facto natural law, Where government has any role at all to play in our lives (and believe me, it is very circumscribed in my opinion) it is to nurture and protect these basic human rights against the encroachments of greed, prejudice and violence.

 dmax wrote:  Glad I found a some surgeons who disagree with you. Otherwise I'd be dead from cancer.

 arighter2 wrote: 
See my reply to Dmax.

Justice is a separate issue.

 dmax wrote: 
I agree.  Perhaps employers providing it is part of the problem.  The system is definitely broken, but I really don't think more government involvement is the solution, but that seems to be the drum they're beating these days and people are starting to buy into it.

 oldslabsides wrote:  Not saying you shouldn't get your bennies for selling out to the man, but if you think those deserving are simply those that can afford, you're supporting a system in which the Bernard Madoff's of the world are entitled to the best health care, and millions of honest working folk can go without. Do you honestly think  there is justice in that?

 oldslabsides wrote: 
Health Care isn't a right, I agree. When I talk with my boys about where our donations go, I tend to say stupid stuff like "people need food. they don't HAVE to have even shelter, but they have to have food. that's where everything starts, and that's why we support he food bank."

Shelter, health care, nice clothes, education, good job - these are all wonderful things, provided in the best way that we can if we're a benevolent society. But they aren't rights.

and, BTW, why have employers pay health care? Seems like it's adding a weird criterion for getting coverage. Shouldn't employers pay a decent wage, and health care is provided at a decent cost? But don't tie them together. That's somewhat arbitrary and is also a ballast on the financial freedom of the company. I bet it kills many upstart ideas.