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the Todd Rundgren topic - Steely_D - May 29, 2020 - 6:34pm
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - kurtster - May 29, 2020 - 5:52pm
 
suggest "clasical music" - kcar - May 29, 2020 - 3:49pm
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - R_P - May 29, 2020 - 3:20pm
 
Favorite Quotes - miamizsun - May 29, 2020 - 3:10pm
 
Trump - Red_Dragon - May 29, 2020 - 3:10pm
 
Covid-19 hits home at RP - fractalv - May 29, 2020 - 3:07pm
 
FLAC Streaming - TheKing2 - May 29, 2020 - 2:19pm
 
submissions - TheKing2 - May 29, 2020 - 2:18pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - Lazy8 - May 29, 2020 - 2:06pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - May 29, 2020 - 2:02pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - buddy - May 29, 2020 - 12:48pm
 
Name My Band - buddy - May 29, 2020 - 12:45pm
 
Race in America - R_P - May 29, 2020 - 12:24pm
 
Well, DUH!! - KarmaKarma - May 29, 2020 - 11:43am
 
Epic Facebook Statuses - Proclivities - May 29, 2020 - 11:42am
 
Free Books and Free Culture Online - R_P - May 29, 2020 - 11:34am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - oldviolin - May 29, 2020 - 10:15am
 
The RANT Forum - steeler - May 29, 2020 - 9:39am
 
The Buffoonery - oldviolin - May 29, 2020 - 9:28am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - May 29, 2020 - 9:27am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - May 29, 2020 - 9:20am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - islander - May 29, 2020 - 8:42am
 
Little known information...maybe even facts - miamizsun - May 29, 2020 - 8:10am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - May 29, 2020 - 8:01am
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - May 29, 2020 - 7:01am
 
Hong Kong - miamizsun - May 29, 2020 - 4:56am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - May 28, 2020 - 9:39pm
 
Live Music - R_P - May 28, 2020 - 8:57pm
 
Movie Recommendation - Red_Dragon - May 28, 2020 - 3:56pm
 
Australia and New Zealand Music - miamizsun - May 28, 2020 - 3:55pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - May 28, 2020 - 3:26pm
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - Red_Dragon - May 28, 2020 - 2:13pm
 
Things You Thought Today - Proclivities - May 28, 2020 - 1:25pm
 
Canada - R_P - May 28, 2020 - 12:52pm
 
Capitalism and Consumerism... now what? - islander - May 28, 2020 - 11:29am
 
Amazon Echo/Alexa stream not working - BillG - May 28, 2020 - 8:09am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - May 28, 2020 - 5:21am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - May 28, 2020 - 12:55am
 
What Did You Do Today? - whatshisname - May 27, 2020 - 11:40pm
 
Favorite Books from Your Youth - kcar - May 27, 2020 - 9:20pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - May 27, 2020 - 8:57pm
 
Reinstock '05 Link Repository - AliGator - May 27, 2020 - 7:18pm
 
Those lovable acronym guys & gals - R_P - May 27, 2020 - 5:19pm
 
Photos you have taken of yourself - n4ku - May 27, 2020 - 4:14pm
 
Way Cool Video - miamizsun - May 27, 2020 - 3:02pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - miamizsun - May 27, 2020 - 3:00pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - May 27, 2020 - 2:56pm
 
Shuttle, ISS and other Real Space Ships - islander - May 27, 2020 - 2:22pm
 
(Big) Media Watch - R_P - May 27, 2020 - 1:40pm
 
Overheard - miamizsun - May 27, 2020 - 1:30pm
 
Republican Party - R_P - May 27, 2020 - 1:13pm
 
Economix - R_P - May 27, 2020 - 10:40am
 
Outstanding Covers - oldviolin - May 27, 2020 - 8:52am
 
Books - Proclivities - May 27, 2020 - 7:58am
 
Resume stream vs. jump to live - pclancey - May 27, 2020 - 7:22am
 
RP Main Mix on TuneIn unavailable? - BillG - May 27, 2020 - 6:10am
 
Squirrels Just Want To Have Fun! - R_P - May 26, 2020 - 6:05pm
 
Unable to stream via Echo 8 - Jonmarvin - May 26, 2020 - 5:08pm
 
Trump Lies - haresfur - May 26, 2020 - 3:43pm
 
Happy Birthday To Me! - kcar - May 26, 2020 - 1:42pm
 
Environment - R_P - May 26, 2020 - 9:38am
 
New Song Submissions system - KurtfromLaQuinta - May 25, 2020 - 6:52pm
 
Tech & Science - Steely_D - May 25, 2020 - 2:54pm
 
UK Heos Denon not available - Patienceman - May 25, 2020 - 1:50pm
 
2020 Elections - sirdroseph - May 25, 2020 - 12:40pm
 
Sonos - toomanyollys - May 25, 2020 - 11:02am
 
HELP! Sound Cutting out problem - BillG - May 25, 2020 - 10:17am
 
Phine Phound Photographs - haresfur - May 24, 2020 - 9:28pm
 
Taxes, Taxes, Taxes (and Taxes) - haresfur - May 24, 2020 - 2:35pm
 
Tidal / Spotify - Steely_D - May 24, 2020 - 1:05pm
 
RP App problems on iPod? - jtessier1841 - May 24, 2020 - 9:52am
 
In My Room - buddy - May 23, 2020 - 5:34pm
 
Interesting or Weird Cover Versions - Coaxial - May 23, 2020 - 1:29pm
 
Google Home NOT compatible?? - d_m_g_3 - May 23, 2020 - 9:32am
 
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Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: May 29, 2020 - 3:10pm



 buddy wrote:

Again (and again and again) there is no credible evidence of voter fraud with vote-by-mail more than a negligible percentage, much like voting in person.  And if it moves to some kind of technology-based system, it will cut out an unacceptable amount of voters who cannot manage the technology.  As a nearly 40-year technology professional I can guarantee that. By the way, ever heard of election fraud via computer hacking?

I’ve been voting-by-mail for years in Colorado & it couldn’t be easier, less time-consuming, and secure. Even my 73 year-old sister with COPD living in a senior community with no car and barely able to navigate an iPhone can easily vote in about 20-minutes of effort.
 
The general population always lags significantly behind the current technology curve. It’s unreasonable to have a voting system for all citizens that isn’t patently easy to navigate, distribute & collect, with virtually air-tight security.  We can and are doing that today via vote-by-mail, as the 5 states doing that demonstrates.

 

Also, the US military has been voting by mail since the civil war.
buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Denver
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 12:41pm



 black321 wrote:
Most people have access to a computer, library, school facility.... Hell, over a third of us now order groceries online. Mail is certainly acceptable for certain cases, but also seems an antiquated system, with plenty of opportunity for abuse. Anecdotal story of a friends mother in law who passed away, but still gets her mail in ballots. 
I do like the idea of early voting, and not requiring everyone to vote/show up on the tues after the first mon of nov.

Again (and again and again) there is no credible evidence of voter fraud with vote-by-mail more than a negligible percentage, much like voting in person.  And if it moves to some kind of technology-based system, it will cut out an unacceptable amount of voters who cannot manage the technology.  As a nearly 40-year technology professional I can guarantee that. By the way, ever heard of election fraud via computer hacking?

I’ve been voting-by-mail for years in Colorado & it couldn’t be easier, less time-consuming, and secure. Even my 73 year-old sister with COPD living in a senior community with no car and barely able to navigate an iPhone can easily vote in about 20-minutes of effort.
 
The general population always lags significantly behind the current technology curve. It’s unreasonable to have a voting system for all citizens that isn’t patently easy to navigate, distribute & collect, with virtually air-tight security.  We can and are doing that today via vote-by-mail, as the 5 states doing that demonstrates.

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 12:31pm

black321 wrote:
Most people have access to a computer, library, school facility.... Hell, over a third of us now order groceries online. Mail is certainly acceptable for certain cases, but also seems an antiquated system, with plenty of opportunity for abuse. Anecdotal story of a friends mother in law who passed away, but still gets her mail in ballots. 
I do like the idea of early voting, and not requiring everyone to vote/show up on the tues after the first mon of nov.

Where I live anyone can request to vote by mail for any reason, and you can vote in person up to a week early at a central polling place (county courthouse).

The early voting thing is expensive to maintain, but probably only a little more than a regular polling place. Mail-in is cheap and really popular—over 60% opt for it. Among locals early voting (including mail-in; your ballot has to be received by noon the day before election day) is a big reason Greg Gianforte was elected to a house seat after being arrested for body-slamming a reporter to the ground 2 days before the election. He won, but by a very thin margin.

Without early voting he would be just another convicted violent offender and not a member of Congress (now running for governor).
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 11:35am



 black321 wrote:
i'd love to see higher participation rates, but
there's got to be a better way than mail-in ballots

 
Agree 100%.   Until we get there, we should be actively planning HOW we safely conduct an election in November, not looking for ways to reduce participation rates.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 11:32am



 rgio wrote:


 black321 wrote:
 Anecdotal story of a friends mother in law who passed away, but still gets her mail in ballots.
 
The math inabilities for those tabulating / checking are far more dangerous than the all of the dead mother in-laws.

Timing has to be just right on the MIL plan...or she starts to smell up the house. 

BTW...she could have received an absentee ballot when she knew she was ill....so there is still a risk.

It's amusing that we lament participation rates, and then reject nearly every attempt to increase them.

 

i'd love to see higher participation rates, but
there's got to be a better way than mail-in ballots

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 11:08am



 black321 wrote:
 Anecdotal story of a friends mother in law who passed away, but still gets her mail in ballots.
 
The math inabilities for those tabulating / checking are far more dangerous than the all of the dead mother in-laws.

Timing has to be just right on the MIL plan...or she starts to smell up the house. 

BTW...she could have received an absentee ballot when she knew she was ill....so there is still a risk.

It's amusing that we lament participation rates, and then reject nearly every attempt to increase them.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 10:54am

Most people have access to a computer, library, school facility.... Hell, over a third of us now order groceries online. Mail is certainly acceptable for certain cases, but also seems an antiquated system, with plenty of opportunity for abuse. Anecdotal story of a friends mother in law who passed away, but still gets her mail in ballots. 
I do like the idea of early voting, and not requiring everyone to vote/show up on the tues after the first mon of nov.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 10:10am



 buddy wrote:


 black321 wrote:
mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
 
A lot of people don't have 21st century technology or know-how, but pretty much everyone has a mailbox.

Before the pandemic, 5 states already conducted elections via vote-by-mail, including my state of Colorado.  All registered voters (regardless of party affiliation) receive a voting packet, which includes a ballot, literature on all issues on the ballot (not just positions up for election), and a pre-addressed ballot return envelope. Beyond a signature, there is a barcode label on the ballot and a matching one you tear off & keep in the event your vote has issues.  You can either mail it in or drop it off at a ballot box location anywhere around the city (and there are plenty of them). The ballot box is a heavy steel box similar to a public mailbox, only about 4 times the size. There's one a a park near me, I usually take my dogs for a walk & drop off my ballot there.  From a recent local news article in 5280 Magazine (Denver's local publication) about Colorado's vote-by-mail system:

Colorado is one of just five states that sends a ballot to every registered voter by mail, and if the success of our elections is any proof, Trump’s assertions don’t have much merit. “Mail-in voting is safe if you have the proper processes in place,” says Wayne Williams, who helped refine Colorado’s mail-in voting initiative while he was secretary of state from 2015 to 2019. “Our state’s system is an example of how things can be kept secure.”Both Williams and current Secretary of State Jena Griswold say there are two key pieces that help Colorado assure the integrity of its mail-in voting system. First is the ability to maintain accurate mailing lists. To do that, addresses are regularly updated using information from both the National Change of Address database and the Colorado Department of Revenue, which receives notice of your updated location when you revise that info during a DMV visit. The accuracy of that directory ensures people actually receive their ballot. Voting rolls are also examined against the Social Security Index, so people who have died can be removed.

The second important security measure is the ability to cross-check voters’ John Hancocks. Before you submit your ballot, you must sign the back of it. After being collected from the ballot box, a team of bipartisan election judges appointed by county clerks compare those squiggly lines to the signature listed under your name in the state’s voting database, which is typically pulled from your driver’s license. If the two don’t match, the county clerk sends you a letter asking for proof the ballot is yours, usually by sending back a fixed signature.

Williams says his team once had to send such a note to his daughter when he was secretary of state: “She had carefully spelled out her name on an early driver’s license and by the time she was in college it was a scrawl.” If there appears to be evidence of some sort of double or illegal voting, though, the secretary of state can refer someone to the district attorney for investigation. According to Griswold, only .0027 percent of the more than 2.5 million ballots cast in Colorado during the 2018 midterm election were suspect enough to take that type of action. “It’s really rare,” she says, “but it’s still important that we guard against it.”

Those protections do go beyond just updating lists and examining autographs. Colorado also checks with the five other states that conduct all elections entirely by mail, including Oregon and Washington, to make sure someone isn’t casting a ballot by mail in multiple locations. The state even defends against what is known as ballot harvesting with a law that says the most ballots one person can turn in is 10. That means you can still take the ballot your elderly grandma lawfully filled out to a polling place for her, and it hopefully limits the chances that people will give their ballots to someone who says they’ll turn it in but has no intention of doing so.


 
Voting by mail isn't the issue....it's allowing everyone easy access to doing so that worries the Republicans.

Kayleigh McEnany has voted 11 times by mail in the last 10 years.  Trump has done it several times.  They appreciate they can't say it's totally corrupt, it's only a problem when we make it easy and acceptable for the masses.  Fox news is already spinning McEnany's story.  Absentee voting is fine...but mailed votes from people down the street are just too dangerous.

buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Denver
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 10:03am



 black321 wrote:
mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
 
A lot of people don't have 21st century technology or know-how, but pretty much everyone has a mailbox.

Before the pandemic, 5 states already conducted elections via vote-by-mail, including my state of Colorado.  All registered voters (regardless of party affiliation) receive a voting packet, which includes a ballot, literature on all issues on the ballot (not just positions up for election), and a pre-addressed ballot return envelope. Beyond a signature, there is a barcode label on the ballot and a matching one you tear off & keep in the event your vote has issues.  You can either mail it in or drop it off at a ballot box location anywhere around the city (and there are plenty of them). The ballot box is a heavy steel box similar to a public mailbox, only about 4 times the size. There's one a a park near me, I usually take my dogs for a walk & drop off my ballot there.  From a recent local news article in 5280 Magazine (Denver's local publication) about Colorado's vote-by-mail system:

Colorado is one of just five states that sends a ballot to every registered voter by mail, and if the success of our elections is any proof, Trump’s assertions don’t have much merit. “Mail-in voting is safe if you have the proper processes in place,” says Wayne Williams, who helped refine Colorado’s mail-in voting initiative while he was secretary of state from 2015 to 2019. “Our state’s system is an example of how things can be kept secure.”

Both Williams and current Secretary of State Jena Griswold say there are two key pieces that help Colorado assure the integrity of its mail-in voting system. First is the ability to maintain accurate mailing lists. To do that, addresses are regularly updated using information from both the National Change of Address database and the Colorado Department of Revenue, which receives notice of your updated location when you revise that info during a DMV visit. The accuracy of that directory ensures people actually receive their ballot. Voting rolls are also examined against the Social Security Index, so people who have died can be removed.

The second important security measure is the ability to cross-check voters’ John Hancocks. Before you submit your ballot, you must sign the back of it. After being collected from the ballot box, a team of bipartisan election judges appointed by county clerks compare those squiggly lines to the signature listed under your name in the state’s voting database, which is typically pulled from your driver’s license. If the two don’t match, the county clerk sends you a letter asking for proof the ballot is yours, usually by sending back a fixed signature.

Williams says his team once had to send such a note to his daughter when he was secretary of state: “She had carefully spelled out her name on an early driver’s license and by the time she was in college it was a scrawl.” If there appears to be evidence of some sort of double or illegal voting, though, the secretary of state can refer someone to the district attorney for investigation. According to Griswold, only .0027 percent of the more than 2.5 million ballots cast in Colorado during the 2018 midterm election were suspect enough to take that type of action. “It’s really rare,” she says, “but it’s still important that we guard against it.”

Those protections do go beyond just updating lists and examining autographs. Colorado also checks with the five other states that conduct all elections entirely by mail, including Oregon and Washington, to make sure someone isn’t casting a ballot by mail in multiple locations. The state even defends against what is known as ballot harvesting with a law that says the most ballots one person can turn in is 10. That means you can still take the ballot your elderly grandma lawfully filled out to a polling place for her, and it hopefully limits the chances that people will give their ballots to someone who says they’ll turn it in but has no intention of doing so.


ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 9:58am

 black321 wrote:
mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
 
I hope we have a fully functioning USPS in November.  There are some funding issues looming this fall that Trump may find useful exploitation.
What happens to undelivered mailed ballots?  Uncounted, for certain.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 9:54am



 black321 wrote:
mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
 
21st Century...Like voting on a weekend or National holiday?

Sadly, paper and "in-person" remain the only way for the US to truly vote.  If you wonder why we can't do it online...look no further than the crisis in education when everyone was sent home.  On second thought....don't give Donnie any ideas...."you mean that the people too poor to have internet and iPhones can't vote?.....that's Perfect....like my phone calls....what a hoax!"

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 9:50am



 black321 wrote:
mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
 


In the macro, though, our problem is how few vote in elections. We should want more to exercise their right to vote. We should be encouraging people to vote. Making it easier to vote by doing things like expanding early voting is what we should be doing to try to prompt people to participate. I simply do not understand those who maintain that people should be willing to make any sacrifices necessary to show up at a voting place on Election Day as if it should be a test of one’s patriotism. The voter fraud specter really is more of a red herring. Allowing for  early voting, for example, does not increase the possibility or probability of voter fraud. What it does is increase the probability that more eligible voters will vote. 



black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 9:37am

mail-in voting, another divisive political problem with issues on both sides.
but why?
according to buddy, we have 158 days until the election.
why not find a 21st century solution, and not rely on an antiquated system that to me, only delivers junk mail and charity requests?
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 29, 2020 - 9:37am

 meower wrote:
 
Of course, from Florida...
meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 8:56am



 BlueHeronDruid wrote:
 
The dark past of "when the looting starts...."

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 8:52am



 steeler wrote:
The second sentence regarding the fate of the GOP if mail-in voting becomes prevalent is interesting. On its face, it would appear to be an acknowledgment that making voting easier hurts the GOP because that party does better when total voter turnout remains low.
 
The Republicans currently control 2/3rds of Washington while just over 1/3rd of the nation identifies as Republican.  That is an amazing accomplishment.

Gerrymandering and voter suppression are the primary tools and the notion that hourly laborers will be able to vote without the inconvenience of taking the day off is unthinkable.

The Donald is flailing at anything right now.  What he doesn't appreciate is that there will be 20M-30M people who may still be out of work come November....and they'll have nothing better to do than stand in line and vote.  Any real leader who loves the Constitution like Don says he does would be working on a way to ensure a safe and accurate vote if we wind up with a Phase 2 outbreak.  Honestly, I think Don is trying to create a second wave as a way to suggest we can't safely hold an election....we'll do it next year.
buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Denver
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 8:46am

158 days until the Presidential election.


steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 8:43am

MAIL-IN VOTING WILL LEAD TO MASSIVE FRAUD AND ABUSE. IT WILL ALSO LEAD TO THE END OF OUR GREAT REPUBLICAN PARTY. WE CAN NEVER LET THIS TRAGEDY BEFALL OUR NATION. BIG MAIL-IN VICTORY IN TEXAS COURT TODAY. CONGRATS!!!


Above is a Trump tweet this morning. The second sentence regarding the fate of the GOP if mail-in voting becomes prevalent is interesting. On its face, it would appear to be an acknowledgment that making voting easier hurts the GOP because that party does better when total voter turnout remains low. Now, i imagine Trump or his supporters would say that second sentence, in context with the first sentence, is saying those who will commit this massive voting fraud would be overwhelmingly Democrats, not Republicans. Uh-huh. The Republicans are not known at all to be behind any voting fraud or voter suppression. 
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 7:51am



 BlueHeronDruid wrote:
 


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: May 29, 2020 - 4:44am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
ugh.. race riots are the last thing we need now. Trump will play the law and order card, divide the nation and win the election by the barest of margins by acting tough in the face of people he paints as hooligans, while he is the biggest hooligan of all. Seen it all before.
 
just take a look around and make your best intellectual effort to assess reality

a big part of the problem is that the political divide is over-sold

and that the masses don't stop and think critically, esp on an individual level

give me the bumper sticker/twitter version that confirms my bias and i'll fall in line

but it is great for zero sum politics and ratings

doom porn and bad news sells

just flip on the tele, open the paper or go to a major news site

anxiety, frustration and fear are all maxing out

just you wait for the election adverts coming

we're all going to die wallowing in pestilence and climaxing in a giant bright light

not

good day sir! 

{#Wink}
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