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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Guns Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 469, 470, 471  Next
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rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 11:50am

This is what common sense looks and sounds like.

rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 11:36am

 kcar wrote:

I found this tweet from MeidasTouch.com telling:

Wait, so the same party that has been smearing teachers as woke, CRT-teaching, liberal indoctrinating, pedophile groomers now wants to give them guns and force them to act as a military security force?  11:24 AM · May 27, 2022


Maybe they would have been a bit more heroic than the cops who sat in the hall for 30 mins AFTER getting the shields they wanted...  as 10-year-olds bled out on the other side of the door.  
The same party that's so supportive of the police doesn't seem to appreciate that they are setting them up for failure as well.  The cops said they to so long because they were so overmatched by the AR-15.   Think about it...someone went from unarmed to "overpowering the cops" in a week....and the right will tell you it's a mental health issue.

R_P

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Posted: May 27, 2022 - 10:08am

More arms, more security.


We arm the world
We arm the children
kcar

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Posted: May 27, 2022 - 8:47am

I found this tweet from MeidasTouch.com telling:

Wait, so the same party that has been smearing teachers as woke, CRT-teaching, liberal indoctrinating, pedophile groomers now wants to give them guns and force them to act as a military security force?  11:24 AM · May 27, 2022
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 7:47am

 ColdMiser wrote:

Is there an organization opposite of the NRA out there? Somewhere that Gun Safety can be advocated/lobbied?



A few small groups around, but nothing to seriously challenge the NRA.
Conservatives are a complete fail (Kurtster) when it comes to the gun violence issue; no alternative proposals other than Americans need their guns (and prayers), and hide behind some misunderstood piece of paper.
If it's a mental health issue, then fund mental health services.
Unfortunately, it's unlikely we will be able to completely stop these shootings.
But there are common sense remedies to curb the violence. 

If I want to add a small deck to my property, I have to go to town hall, fill out forms and have an inspector come to my home and inspect my property. A process that can take weeks or months.
At worst, I might have to wait three days for my gun. 

And I guess it's not clear that the vast majority of Americans want tougher laws:

A CBS poll this month after the Buffalo shooting and before the one in Uvalde found that 54% of Americans want stricter laws covering the sale of guns, compared with 46% who want to keep gun laws as they are or make them looser.

Excerpts from a recent article:

Gun-control activists say they haven’t succeeded because of the nearly unified opposition of Republican lawmakers, who say more restrictions aren’t the way to reduce violence and may violate the Second Amendment. Their side also remains vastly outspent on lobbying by gun-rights groups, despite funding from the likes of billionaire Michael Bloomberg. And Democratic politicians acknowledge that pro-gun voters place a higher priority on the issue than voters who favor gun control.

Most Republicans see no role for federal laws restricting guns in ending mass shootings, and any legislation would need some GOP support in a Senate that has been closely divided or under GOP control in recent years.

Mr. Bloomberg, former New York City mayor and one of the major funders of Everytown for Gun Safety, offered on Thursday to triple match any donation to the organization.

During the past decade, gun-rights groups have spent more than $114 million on lobbying, while groups advocating for more stringent gun laws have spent about $19.4 million, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks lobbying and campaign spending.

Everytown, Brady, Giffords and similar groups spent $2.9 million on lobbying last year, their highest tally ever; the gun-rights groups spent $15.8 million.


One challenge is that voters don’t prioritize laws limiting gun ownership over issues like the economy and healthcare, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D., Md.) said. It ranked fifth in a 2018 survey of voter priorities by Gallup.

“It’s frustrating for the groups, it’s frustrating for members, it’s frustrating for the country,” Mr. Hoyer said in an interview Wednesday.

If the vast majority of voters decided “I’m not going to vote for people who don’t vote for common-sense legislation,” Mr. Hoyer said, that legislation would become the priority.

In his decades in Congress, he said he has seen the groups raise consciousness about gun safety, but the biggest federal achievements he points to occurred in 1994, when Congress passed a background-check law and banned assault-style weapons.

After the ban lapsed in 2004, seven states enacted their own versions, according to Everytown.

Much of the gun-control groups’ energy has pivoted to finding such wins in state legislatures.







ColdMiser

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Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 7:47am

 rgio wrote:

My cousin is (I think) involved with this one...  https://momsdemandaction.org/




I guess Grass Roots is how things get started. Tough to compete with the War chest of the NRA.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 7:34am

 ColdMiser wrote:

Is there an organization opposite of the NRA out there? Somewhere that Gun Safety can be advocated/lobbied? Would like to see some national ads showing clowns like Cruz juxtaposed against images of the victims of gun violence to get people talking. NBA finals coming up, would be a great place to start showing them. 


My cousin is (I think) involved with this one...  https://momsdemandaction.org/



ColdMiser

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Location: On the Trail
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 6:28am

Is there an organization opposite of the NRA out there? Somewhere that Gun Safety can be advocated/lobbied? Would like to see some national ads showing clowns like Cruz juxtaposed against images of the victims of gun violence to get people talking. NBA finals coming up, would be a great place to start showing them. 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 4:55am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Vicious circle indeed. Police can't police properly due to armed criminals -> citizens seek more arms -> criminals have easier access to guns. 

Can see this working out real well   /not. 

The US is admittedly a very complex society with a number of sub-groups forming on the basis of race, ethnicity, location, employment status, or whatever other parameter you want to use. Keeping that all together is no easy job and is going to need some overriding consensus on what America is and what holds it together. But marginalizing groups is not going to be the way forward.  

As a "don't fuck with me" statement, guns are by definition not a very useful instrument of diversity and inclusiveness but are by nature divisive. For that reason alone, they should be disparaged, not glorified.

It used to be that someone could play on both teams.  I would consider myself to be very fiscally conservative and was a registered Republican for years.  I would lean pro-life, but was one of those "not my issue" folks.  I never liked guns.  I didn't dislike them...just never really saw the "joy" of shooting.  Did the clay pigeon thing a few times on a friends farm...seemed like a waste of perfectly good clay and a lot of noise.

I don't see any of the things that attracted me to the Republican party anymore.  There is no fiscal policy, there is no sense of duty or reason, it's now a party completely for hire.  Bill Maher did a piece about the lifestyle afforded to otherwise very average people who get elected.  They are there for themselves only....anyway....

The realities of gun violence are slowing cornering the right.  The notion that more guns would protect people (arm teachers...I love that one) was proven stupid this week.  The cops wouldn't enter the building.   Why?  Because the guy on the inside had an AR-15 and they were carrying handguns.  Parents ran into the building unarmed to get their kids, but the cops waited to do anything because they were scared and knew they were at a disadvantage.   More guns doesn't work.  I don't blame the cops, but it shows that all guns and motivations are not created equal, and that people don't always react well under massive uncertainty and fear. 

Kurt doesn't want to discuss...he just wants to throw out a few of the many party lines about freedom, and the Constitution, and all of the "real" issues besides the most obvious.  Any discussion of criminality requires level-setting and nuance that is way too complicated for someone who throws out a few party lines and the says "I'm out".  Any chance that all of the people in jail for gun violations are skewing the results?

The NRA is hosting a convention where guns are prohibited this weekend, but they will tell you that teachers should carry at school?  The NRA won't allow guns.  No calls of overregulation or government restricting the freedom of law-abiding citizens (to do something they are allowed to do across most of Texas without a license under a new law last year).  It's not big government...it's common sense.  I guess it only matters when they're at risk.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 27, 2022 - 12:51am

 kurtster wrote:

We have more people incarcerated than any other country in the world.

The United States is not only the country with the highest incarceration rate worlwide, but it is also home to the largest number of prisoners. Roughly 2.12 million people were incarcerated in the U.S. in 2020. In China, the estimated prison population totaled to 1.71 million people that year.

It's a pretty safe bet that we win with the crazy's, too.  Latest info for L A is that while 1% of the population is homeless (aka mentally ill) last year they accounted for 15% of the crime.

Fail, you can circle back on this if you want. 

You have your POV and I have mine.  Later.
 
Vicious circle indeed. Police can't police properly due to armed criminals -> citizens seek more arms -> criminals have easier access to guns. 

Can see this working out real well   /not. 

The US is admittedly a very complex society with a number of sub-groups forming on the basis of race, ethnicity, location, employment status, or whatever other parameter you want to use. Keeping that all together is no easy job and is going to need some overriding consensus on what America is and what holds it together. But marginalizing groups is not going to be the way forward.  

As a "don't fuck with me" statement, guns are by definition not a very useful instrument of diversity and inclusiveness but are by nature divisive. For that reason alone, they should be disparaged, not glorified.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 6:10pm

 kurtster wrote:

We have more people incarcerated than any other country in the world.

The United States is not only the country with the highest incarceration rate worlwide, but it is also home to the largest number of prisoners. Roughly 2.12 million people were incarcerated in the U.S. in 2020. In China, the estimated prison population totaled to 1.71 million people that year.

It's a pretty safe bet that we win with the crazy's, too.  Latest info for L A is that while 1% of the population is homeless (aka mentally ill) last year they accounted for 15% of the crime.

Fail, you can circle back on this if you want. 

You have your POV and I have mine.  Later.


Unfortunately, your POV is really a POS. It is based mostly on falsehoods and talking points from people who are afraid of losing their position/power.  
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 6:04pm

 steeler wrote:

This may be on the margins of the discussion of this ongoing nightmare of mass shootings, but I do believe the glorification of gun possession plays a significant role, and I have been thinking of this whenever I see photos of people proudly displaying their firearms. I mean, what is the reasoning behind posing with a firearm sporting a shit-eating grin? Why would someone seeking elected office choose as a campaign aid a photo of him or her brandishing a gun? What kind of a person elects to adorn a Christmas card with a photo of him, his wife, and their children proudly holding their guns?j

It does not make sense to me. If, as oft stated, the gun is for protection, a tool, then how to explain these kind of displays? It seems clear to me that the possession of these firearms are being associated — falsely — with concepts such as freedom, patriotism, and heroism. There is some kind of cultural attachment, as if gun ownership defines what it means to be an American.

This is deluded thinking, which sets the stage for those who then take it to its most illogical, irrational and fatal extreme, going out in a blaze of perceived glory, as if they were action heroes in a movie — only the deaths are real.



Show me your budget and I'll tell you what you value:

Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 26, 2022 - 5:53pm

Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 26, 2022 - 5:48pm

 rgio wrote:

You're right....it's crazy and criminals...not the guns.   You're allowed to have a POV, even if it's illogical.



Yeah, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that America has by far the highest number of guns per capita. Just couldn't.
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 4:46pm

 kurtster wrote:

We have more people incarcerated than any other country in the world.

The United States is not only the country with the highest incarceration rate worlwide, but it is also home to the largest number of prisoners. Roughly 2.12 million people were incarcerated in the U.S. in 2020. In China, the estimated prison population totaled to 1.71 million people that year.

It's a pretty safe bet that we win with the crazy's, too.  Latest info for L A is that while 1% of the population is homeless (aka mentally ill) last year they accounted for 15% of the crime.

Fail, you can circle back on this if you want. 

You have your POV and I have mine.  Later.

You're right....it's crazy and criminals...not the guns.   You're allowed to have a POV, even if it's illogical.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 3:46pm

 steeler wrote:
... I do believe the glorification of gun possession plays a significant role, and I have been thinking of this whenever I see photos of people proudly displaying their firearms. I mean, what is the reasoning behind posing with a firearm sporting a shit-eating grin? ...

... then how to explain these kind of displays? It seems clear to me that the possession of these firearms are being associated — falsely — with concepts such as freedom, patriotism, and heroism. There is some kind of cultural attachment...

This is deluded thinking, which sets the stage for those who then take it to its most illogical, irrational and fatal extreme, going out in a blaze of perceived glory, as if they were action heroes in a movie — only the deaths are real.
 
Well then maybe we should quit making movies that trade on gun violence and glorifying it ... to make a buck.

And then the video games ... which all the bleeding hearts say have zero impact on cultural behaviour ...

u are what you eat, in more ways than just food ...
.

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 3:22pm

This may be on the margins of the discussion of this ongoing nightmare of mass shootings, but I do believe the glorification of gun possession plays a significant role, and I have been thinking of this whenever I see photos of people proudly displaying their firearms. I mean, what is the reasoning behind posing with a firearm sporting a shit-eating grin? Why would someone seeking elected office choose as a campaign aid a photo of him or her brandishing a gun? What kind of a person elects to adorn a Christmas card with a photo of him, his wife, and their children proudly holding their guns?j

It does not make sense to me. If, as oft stated, the gun is for protection, a tool, then how to explain these kind of displays? It seems clear to me that the possession of these firearms are being associated — falsely — with concepts such as freedom, patriotism, and heroism. There is some kind of cultural attachment, as if gun ownership defines what it means to be an American.

This is deluded thinking, which sets the stage for those who then take it to its most illogical, irrational and fatal extreme, going out in a blaze of perceived glory, as if they were action heroes in a movie — only the deaths are real.

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 3:13pm

 rgio wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

It is the criminals and crazy's who do not follow the rules that are the problem. Since the police are no longer able to do their job due to politics ... the ones who do follow the rules have a legitimate need for guns to protect themselves from the criminals and crazy's.


Do we have more criminals than other countries?Do we have more crazy's than other countries?

The answer to both is no, ...

 
We have more people incarcerated than any other country in the world.

The United States is not only the country with the highest incarceration rate worlwide, but it is also home to the largest number of prisoners. Roughly 2.12 million people were incarcerated in the U.S. in 2020. In China, the estimated prison population totaled to 1.71 million people that year.

It's a pretty safe bet that we win with the crazy's, too.  Latest info for L A is that while 1% of the population is homeless (aka mentally ill) last year they accounted for 15% of the crime.

Fail, you can circle back on this if you want. 

You have your POV and I have mine.  Later.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 2:51pm

 kurtster wrote:

It is the criminals and crazy's who do not follow the rules that are the problem.

Since the police are no longer able to do their job due to politics ...

the ones who do follow the rules have a legitimate need for guns to protect themselves from the criminals and crazy's.


Do we have more criminals than other countries?

Do we have more crazy's than other countries?

The answer to both is no, yet we have mass murders every week, and other countries go years without them?   What's different?

Blame everything else, but the political problem is that we allow the NRA and the money they give to the Right to focus on anything but what can stop it.  Less guns.  


FWIW - Law enforcement in other countries often doesn't carry guns.  That's because they don't need them.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 26, 2022 - 2:43pm

So as everyone here goes all Beto ...

You can have all of the rules and laws that you want.

The people who follow the rules are not the problem.

It is the criminals and crazy's who do not follow the rules that are the problem.

Since the police are no longer able to do their job due to politics ...

the ones who do follow the rules have a legitimate need for guns to protect themselves from the criminals and crazy's.
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