Before its declared that NATO doesn’t work, perhaps the facts might matter.

The only time in NATO history that the collective defense clause was invoked was following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, an armed attack against one member is considered an attack against all. While NATO had engaged in several operations prior to 2001 (such as in the Balkans during the 1990s), those were based on UN mandates or "non-Article 5" crisis management rather than a formal declaration of collective defense.

Meanwhile back to the current reality, the US War on Iran is a war of Trump’s choice, not a war due to an attack on the US.  Article 5 does not apply. 

Thank you NATO for coming to our aid after 9/11, and thanks for the sacrifice of your troops who gave their lives in the effort.

Oh yeah, and in the entire history of NATO, the USSR/Russia has never attacked a member nation.

So what was Yugoslavia / Serbia about then ?  NATO got involved there pretty intensely.  IIRC they even took out all the electric power in Serbia.  That was OK, but doing the same in Iran is a war crime ?

Oh so short memories.

Don't bother answering.  It doesn't really matter what I think or pay attention to.

I am curious, Who is in this new coalition?

Before its declared that NATO doesn’t work, perhaps the facts might matter.

The only time in NATO history that the collective defense clause was invoked was following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, an armed attack against one member is considered an attack against all. While NATO had engaged in several operations prior to 2001 (such as in the Balkans during the 1990s), those were based on UN mandates or "non-Article 5" crisis management rather than a formal declaration of collective defense.

Meanwhile back to the current reality, the US War on Iran is a war of Trump’s choice, not a war due to an attack on the US.  Article 5 does not apply. 

Thank you NATO for coming to our aid after 9/11, and thanks for the sacrifice of your troops who gave their lives in the effort.

Oh yeah, and in the entire history of NATO, the USSR/Russia has never attacked a member nation.

Before its declared that NATO doesn’t work, perhaps the facts might matter.

The only time in NATO history that the collective defense clause was invoked was following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

Under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, an armed attack against one member is considered an attack against all. While NATO had engaged in several operations prior to 2001 (such as in the Balkans during the 1990s), those were based on UN mandates or "non-Article 5" crisis management rather than a formal declaration of collective defense.

Meanwhile back to the current reality, the US War on Iran is a war of Trump’s choice, not a war due to an attack on the US.  Article 5 does not apply. 

Thank you NATO for coming to our aid after 9/11, and thanks for the sacrifice of your troops who gave their lives in the effort.

Oh yeah, and in the entire history of NATO, the USSR/Russia has never attacked a member nation.

The Iranians don't need nukes anyway. (...)

Well, it proves he felt unable to negotiate a better deal. It was true that it was going to expire in 2030, but a real deal maker could've stepped in and said, "I'll do even better than that other guy did; here are terms you'll accept and we'll both look like heroes."

But the senile felon rapist loser couldn't. So he played mobster/bully instead and now the world knows he's as impotent as his little mushroom dick.

Yes, it was working. Just because Trump proclaimed without any justification that it was not… doesn’t negate that fact.

You actually believe that the Treaty was working ?  Tell me again how ?  It was only designed to put a temporay hold on weapons projects not end them.

You believe the Iranians more than the US ?  Yeah like their missiles can't go very far and that they are good to their people and their neighbors.

This was never going to end well.  Better it gets done now and executed by a team that is willing to actually fight and win for a change.  This is a global paradigm shift underway and I would much rather have us calling the shots than anyone else.  The US has proved its capabilities and can go alone if need be.  Evidently we have to go alone, but not really.  We have a new coalition who understands the actual problem and is willing to do something about it.  NATO sure as hell doesn't.  And NATO, even though it was designed to keep Russia at bay was eating out of Russia's hands by getting their cheaper oil and nat gas that helped finance the war in Ukraine.  We finally shamed them into getting off of Russia's energy teet and they're pissed off about it.  The Western European part (old) of NATO doesn't give a flying fuck about Ukraine.  The old Eastern Bloc part gets it though.  Old NATO is more than happy to let Ukraine go back to the Russians as was Biden.  

Old NATO doesn't care about Iran becoming the next North Korea, cuz they won't.  The difference between the two is that NK wants their nukes as a defensive deterrent and the Iranians want to use them as an offensive weapon.  NATO just thinks that the Iranians only want to go after Israel and the US and that they are safe from any Iranian threats.   Yeah, ok ...

You all seriously have your wires crossed badly.  My take is completely different than the rest of you all and you don't see anything the way I do with this.  I guess that we will have to agree to disagree, except that you all won't let it go at that.  You'll keep pounding me to see it your way until I do cuz you can't help yourselves but it just ain't gonna happen.

Later.

Kristi Noem has it all under control.  Everyone says nobody has ever seen anything like it.   The best people... they're amazing.

New World Order, of course. Chaired by the Board of Peace. It’ll all be happening in two weeks. They have a concept of a plan. Everyone says so.

I am curious, Who is in this new coalition?

You actually believe that the Treaty was working ?  Tell me again how ?  It was only designed to put a temporay hold on weapons projects not end them.

You believe the Iranians more than the US ?  Yeah like their missiles can't go very far and that they are good to their people and their neighbors.

This was never going to end well.  Better it gets done now and executed by a team that is willing to actually fight and win for a change.  This is a global paradigm shift underway and I would much rather have us calling the shots than anyone else.  The US has proved its capabilities and can go alone if need be.  Evidently we have to go alone, but not really.  We have a new coalition who understands the actual problem and is willing to do something about it.  NATO sure as hell doesn't.  And NATO, even though it was designed to keep Russia at bay was eating out of Russia's hands by getting their cheaper oil and nat gas that helped finance the war in Ukraine.  We finally shamed them into getting off of Russia's energy teet and they're pissed off about it.  The Western European part (old) of NATO doesn't give a flying fuck about Ukraine.  The old Eastern Bloc part gets it though.  Old NATO is more than happy to let Ukraine go back to the Russians as was Biden.  

Old NATO doesn't care about Iran becoming the next North Korea, cuz they won't.  The difference between the two is that NK wants their nukes as a defensive deterrent and the Iranians want to use them as an offensive weapon.  NATO just thinks that the Iranians only want to go after Israel and the US and that they are safe from any Iranian threats.   Yeah, ok ...

You all seriously have your wires crossed badly.  My take is completely different than the rest of you all and you don't see anything the way I do with this.  I guess that we will have to agree to disagree, except that you all won't let it go at that.  You'll keep pounding me to see it your way until I do cuz you can't help yourselves but it just ain't gonna happen.

Later.

Here is the stumbling block to having any conversation between me and the rest of you.

You all have bought into the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.  And it is the foundation for all of your conclusions.

It prevents you from seeing it any other way, such as in a way I might.  It is proven BS, yet the lie continues and is still actively nurtured by those who started it for their own benefit. And none of you can't get past it nor want to because you all have so much time and energy invested in it.  That and none of you can admit that you were wrong about it, either.

.
So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  The same as you all stick to the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.

Now I'm done.

Here is the stumbling block to having any conversation between me and the rest of you.

You all have bought into the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.  And it is the foundation for all of your conclusions.

It prevents you from seeing it any other way, such as in a way I might.  It is proven BS, yet the lie continues and is still actively nurtured by those who started it for their own benefit. And none of you can't get past it nor want to because you all have so much time and energy invested in it.  That and none of you can admit that you were wrong about it, either.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  The same as you all stick to the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.

Now I'm done.

Here is the stumbling block to having any conversation between me and the rest of you.

You all have bought into the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.  And it is the foundation for all of your conclusions.

It prevents you from seeing it any other way, such as in a way I might.  It is proven BS, yet the lie continues and is still actively nurtured by those who started it for their own benefit. And none of you can't get past it nor want to because you all have so much time and energy invested in it.  That and none of you can admit that you were wrong about it, either.

.
So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.  The same as you all stick to the Trump is Putin's Puppet BS.

Now I'm done.

Who's praying for Armageddon?