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buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Self DD
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 4:39pm



 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Says those who say there is such a thing as "settled science".  There is no such thing.  Never has that been so clear as now ...
 
You seem to be saying two things. We shouldn't base our policy and actions on the best science available, because it is not "settled", and Fauci is a liar because he made statements on his understanding of the best course of action based on the available science but then adapted based on new understanding.

The alternative is to base policy on what Trump decides is politically convenient and nevermind his falsehoods which have no basis in reality.

 

I don't disagree that there is no such thing as 'settled science', but there is such a thing as the best scientific understanding available. I find it irresponsible to throw out all science, or more specifically, the science one chooses to not to believe, in order to support one's political view / agenda.

If scientists who stand on the best, most proven scientific knowledge available, and are not allowed to amend their stance when new, more proven information becomes available, we'd all still be debating whether the Earth is flat & also the center of the universe. 

Fauci was put out front on the hot seat to try to explain & make sense of what was happening in real time and what to do about it as it was unfolding & did so with all candor & authority based on a lifetime of experience in the field and the best available knowledge of a novel virus at the time.  Even then he made caveats about what could happen if things changed and/or a clearer understanding became evident (which was conveniently cropped out of Trump's "mistake list").  When things did evolve & as a better understanding became clear, he put it out there, on a daily basis.  

If you're asking me to believe one of the preeminent experts in the field or politicians and posters on this site, I'm betting my health & safety on Dr. Fauci. 
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 4:33pm



 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Says those who say there is such a thing as "settled science".  There is no such thing.  Never has that been so clear as now ...
 
You seem to be saying two things. We shouldn't base our policy and actions on the best science available, because it is not "settled", and Fauci is a liar because he made statements on his understanding of the best course of action based on the available science but then adapted based on new understanding.

The alternative is to base policy on what Trump decides is politically convenient and nevermind his falsehoods which have no basis in reality.

 

"The alternative is to base policy on what Trump decides is politically convenient and nevermind his falsehoods which have no basis in reality."


And here we are.

I'm tempted to start a betting pool about the date on which we'll have to go back into national lockdown...
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 3:54pm



 kurtster wrote:

Says those who say there is such a thing as "settled science".  There is no such thing.  Never has that been so clear as now ...
 
You seem to be saying two things. We shouldn't base our policy and actions on the best science available, because it is not "settled", and Fauci is a liar because he made statements on his understanding of the best course of action based on the available science but then adapted based on new understanding.

The alternative is to base policy on what Trump decides is politically convenient and nevermind his falsehoods which have no basis in reality.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 3:16pm



 kurtster wrote:

Says those who say there is such a thing as "settled science".  There is no such thing.  Never has that been so clear as now ...
 

Oh, honey. If only you'd make sense more often. You're not doing it here. 

Maybe we should dig up Isaac Newton and get him back to work. 

Or, hey! You could parrot AGAIN  Rush Limbaugh's complaint about climate change research and how people kept stating it's "settled science." You set a new low even for yourself with those posts. Didn't they have pictures of Hitler Youth parades in them? 
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 3:42am

 kcar wrote:

“That’s called science, not a mistake,” he said. “The real, deadly mistake is not listening to science.”




 
Says those who say there is such a thing as "settled science".  There is no such thing.  Never has that been so clear as now ...
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 14, 2020 - 2:49am



 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:



No, I didn't get the Fauci memo.  Please enlighten me.
 

Fauci has made a lot of mistakes. He has been wrong a lot. Probably best not to trust what he says.
 

Interesting that Fauci has been receiving a lot of support from fellow medical experts since the Trump administration started trying to sideline and malign him. See the last two paragraphs from the WaPo that I've quoted here for a better, more informed perspective on Fauci's change of recommendation about wearing masks. 



White House effort to undermine Fauci is criticized by public health experts, scientists and Democrats





A White House effort to undermine Anthony S. Fauci has drawn rebukes from public health experts, scientists and mostly Democratic politicians, who argue it is dangerous for the Trump administration to disparage a highly respected government infectious-disease expert as the novel coronavirus continues to exact a heavy toll on the nation.

The angry reaction occurred after The Washington Post published a story Saturday saying the relationship between President Trump and Fauci had sharply deteriorated and that the two had not spoken since early June.

The White House provided The Post with examples of what it characterized as mistakes that Fauci, the director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, had made about the pandemic, mostly in the early days when information about the virus was extremely limited. The White House also made the information available to other reporters, some of whom described it as “opposition research.”

Academics and researchers rallied to defend Fauci. “It’s shocking,” said Janis Orlowski, chief health care officer of the Association of American Medical Colleges. “When you begin to discredit scientists like Fauci, who are national treasures, you are in serious trouble.”

Critics of the White House noted that some of the Fauci statements cited by the White House were taken out of context, or incomplete. Fauci has said repeatedly, especially in the early days of the outbreak, that scientists lacked sufficient information about the virus to be definitive in their statements. He said recommendations might change as new information emerged.

For example, the White House has criticized Fauci for initially saying, like other health experts, that the general public didn’t need to wear masks. But Fauci said part of that view stemmed from concerns that a short supply of N95 masks should be reserved for health care workers on the front lines. He changed his advice months ago, as more information emerged. Trump wore a mask for the first time Saturday during a visit to the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

...

The Post’s inquiry was wide-ranging about the deteriorating relationship between Trump and Fauci, and about suggestions Trump had soured on Fauci, especially after Fauci’s public criticism of states that reopened too quickly and about certain aspects of the response.

In a tweet Sunday, Carlos del Rio, an infectious-disease specialist at Emory University School of Medicine, accused the White House of not only sidelining Fauci but also of smearing him. “I’m deeply disturbed,” he said.

Ellen Sigal, chair and founder of the Friends of Cancer Research, a research advocacy organization, said that “while there are many facets to this pandemic, such as restoring health, economies, and education, given Dr. Fauci’s unmatched expertise, he provides a critical perspective that needs to be heard.”

Top White House aide Dan Scavino, the White House social media director and deputy chief of staff for communications, on late Sunday shared a cartoon on his Facebook page mocking Fauci.

It depicted Fauci as a faucet spewing cold water on the economy, with phrases written alongside, including “schools stay closed this fall,” “indefinite lockdown” and “no NFL season.”

Tom Frieden, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, took issue on Twitter with criticisms that Fauci had initially said masks were not necessary and subsequently changed his mind after it became clear the coronavirus could be transmitted by people who were asymptomatic.

“That’s called science, not a mistake,” he said. “The real, deadly mistake is not listening to science.”




kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 6:59pm

 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

No, I didn't get the Fauci memo.  Please enlighten me.
 

Fauci has made a lot of mistakes. He has been wrong a lot. Probably best not to trust what he says.
 
Oh, that one.  Well he has been more wrong than right, starting off with the big lie about how those ordinary surgical masks did not work for us ordinary folk in an attempt to save the supply for medical personnel.  I cited that somewhere in another thread not too long ago.  Me, I'm still working out of my stash from my transplant 10 years ago.  Masks and gloves.  I've since acquired more of each since this broke out, but have yet to break into the new stuff yet.

I don't trust anyone on this CV 19 stuff.  I'm keeping a low indoor profile and masking up for outdoor excursions and still wearing gloves for the carts when I go shopping.  Use gloves, tissues or paper towels for door handles on buildings.

Hell, I even have a couple of cans of real Lysol spray from before this stuff started.  The thing I'm now having trouble finding is Zinc.  I've been taking Zinc and Vito C daily for at least 20 years and now that someone has established some sort of benefit with taking zinc and this CV shit, all of a sudden everyone else is buying it up.  I had to pay 10 times what I usually pay to get more.  Usually pay around less than $3 for 200 50 mg tabs.  Bull puckey.  Fucking price gougers.  People should go back to hording TP instead. 

So I'm here to tell everyone, stop taking zinc.  It's for galvanizing nails and sheet metal.  It has no medical value what so ever.  Leave it for the stupid people who have been taking it all along.  I only need it so I can safely go out in the rain and not worry about rusting.  Have you ever noticed how people look at you when you have a bottle of zinc in your hands ?They're thinking you have hydrophobia and pity you for believing what you do, just because you take Zinc.  Remember the big hissy fit we had about Zinc in denture glue not so long ago?  And don't even get me started about wearing Zinc oxide on your nose in public at the beach ...  people will think that all you do is sit at home and watch reruns of Baywatch and Jerry Springer while swilling Mickey's Big Mouth's or little cans of Country Club malt liquor ...

I wish Trump would come out and say wonderful things about it so everyone would stop taking it because he said it was good for you.  I've also heard that Trump has money invested in Zinc mines.  He stands to make bazillions from all you fools out there ...
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 4:21pm



 kurtster wrote:



No, I didn't get the Fauci memo.  Please enlighten me.
 

Fauci has made a lot of mistakes. He has been wrong a lot. Probably best not to trust what he says.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 4:11pm

If, after our historically discontinuous examples of the paranoid style, we now take the long jump to the contemporary right wing, we find some rather important differences from the nineteenth-century movements. The spokesmen of those earlier movements felt that they stood for causes and personal types that were still in possession of their country—that they were fending off threats to a still established way of life. But the modern right wing, as Daniel Bell has put it, feels dispossessed: America has been largely taken away from them and their kind, though they are determined to try to repossess it and to prevent the final destructive act of subversion. The old American virtues have already been eaten away by cosmopolitans and intellectuals; the old competitive capitalism has been gradually undermined by socialistic and communistic schemers; the old national security and independence have been destroyed by treasonous plots, having as their most powerful agents not merely outsiders and foreigners as of old but major statesmen who are at the very centers of American power. Their predecessors had discovered conspiracies; the modern radical right finds conspiracy to be betrayal from on high.
‘It was only done to make me look bad’
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 4:04pm

 Agent Orange wrote:
Smell the fear?
 
No, just you left in the oven too long ...
.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 3:38pm

Smell the fear?
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 3:36pm

 steeler wrote:
I think you hit all the Trump talking points!

Did you get the “op memo” on Fauci?
 
While these may be Trump talking points, I haven't seen them myself per se. 

These are my own conclusions, based solely upon my own observations and nothing I haven't previously posted here over the years other than my new references regarding the similarities of the usage of disruptive surrogates today as they did long ago with the KKK after the Civil War.  That is a recent conclusion of my own.  Seems like a big "duh" to me.  I have heard no one make this comparison to date.  Doesn't mean that no one else has come to this conclusion or stated it somewhere else.  Just means that I did so myself, not based upon the knowledge of anyone else's thoughts.

No, I didn't get the Fauci memo.  Please enlighten me.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 3:19pm



 kurtster wrote:

Yeah, she's a beauty alright.  Another East Coast liberal Carpetbagger from Baltimore who moved west to help ruin the once great state of California and specifically the once beautiful city of San Francisco.  The city streets are now paved with shit.

One of the early casualties in SF was a statue of U.S. Grant.  He may have done more to help the slaves than Lincoln.

ANTIFA and BLM are the modern day surrogates for the Democratic party just as the KKK was for them after the Civil War.  Pelosi supports these destructors by not denouncing them, as seen in the video above.  

Anyone who thinks that Biden has any control over these people is sorely misinformed, imho.  Their destruction will only accelerate and become more widespread under a Biden presidency.  Everywhere will be like Chicago.  Chicago, a place that BLM and every democrat ignores.  Why is that ?  Perhaps because they cannot blame anyone else but themselves for what goes on in Chicago.

.

 

I think you hit all the Trump talking points!

Did you get the “op memo” on Fauci?
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 3:06pm

 KarmaKarma wrote:

Thank Pelosi for that one.  You can expect to see it played again and again in the coming months.

 
Yeah, she's a beauty alright.  Another East Coast liberal Carpetbagger from Baltimore who moved west to help ruin the once great state of California and specifically the once beautiful city of San Francisco.  The city streets are now paved with shit.

One of the early casualties in SF was a statue of U.S. Grant.  He may have done more to help the slaves than Lincoln.

ANTIFA and BLM are the modern day surrogates for the Democratic party just as the KKK was for them after the Civil War.  Pelosi supports these destructors by not denouncing them, as seen in the video above.  

Anyone who thinks that Biden has any control over these people is sorely misinformed, imho.  Their destruction will only accelerate and become more widespread under a Biden presidency.  Everywhere will be like Chicago.  Chicago, a place that BLM and every democrat ignores.  Why is that ?  Perhaps because they cannot blame anyone else but themselves for what goes on in Chicago.

.

KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 13, 2020 - 6:42am



 Steely_D wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:

 

Insightful, complex but ultimately, thought-provoking and will certainly convince people to change their opinions. Kudos. We look forward to more of your well-considered and well-reasoned contribution to our community. 
 

Thank Pelosi for that one.  You can expect to see it played again and again in the coming months.

buddy

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Location: Self DD
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 10:02pm



 Steely_D wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:

 

Insightful, complex but ultimately, thought-provoking and will certainly convince people to change their opinions. Kudos. We look forward to more of your well-considered and well-reasoned contribution to our community. 
  


Be kind, poor Kevin has no where else to go.


Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:55pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:

 

Insightful, complex but ultimately, thought-provoking and will certainly convince people to change their opinions. Kudos. We look forward to more of your well-considered and well-reasoned contribution to our community. 
KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 9:19pm


haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 5:26pm



 sirdroseph wrote:


 haresfur wrote:
I wonder if anyone would have paid attention without the incendiary rhetoric? It certainly got the idea noticed.
 

Oh I don't know I think some other stuff might have gotten some attention too:



Insured Losses from Riots Reach ‘Catastrophe’ Levels, May Rival Record



 

You would think that people would see incendiary rhetoric as more positive than actual incendiaries.

The fundamental problem is that polite discourse is usually ignored.
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 12, 2020 - 5:23pm



 JrzyTmata wrote:


 steeler wrote:


 

Camden, New Jersey.
 

it still has issues but for the most part, it works.  Across the river, Philly was burned and looted during the protests, Camden was quiet.
 


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