A. The Goremyster has been trying to lay claim that he created the internet "Super-Information Highway" for years when it was started mainly in California in the 60's and blossomed in the 70's. It was created as an interscholastic informational hub between schools like Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, MIT (east coast) and a derivative of the government agency of DARPA called ARPANET. Towards the end of the 80's its need for growth forced It exploded into the scene in 1991 with further development of the hypertext protocol. Do you remember Mosaics or did Al create that to ?
B. And if we go by what you say that Al created the "Super-Information Highway" in the 90's, then he is to blame for the 2000 to 2008 house of cards right?
C. Fannie and Freddie are PRIVATE/Public banks. Truewith an open backing by the government. They got too big and too powerful with no government oversite, doing what they wanted and how they wanted to do things with the blessings of both parties.
D. Reagan dropped the top rate down to 28% in 1986 and a year later we had the S and L Banking crisis with a large stock crash. Really. You really want to go down that road. It takes more than a year to have created that fiasco and started festering in the late 70's . Shall I mention Jimmy Carter and 76 to 80?
E. If I recall, the Great Depression was corrected with the creation of "The New Deal" by FDR. With initial hesitation by the republican party, they worked together in creating programs such as the WPA and Social Security Act. And I think FDR was one of the greatest presidents in US history.
Now this is pulled from Wiki:Roosevelt worked with Republican Senator George Norris to create the largest government-owned industrial enterprise in American history. and Conservative Democrats, led by Al Smith, fought back with the American Liberty League, savagely attacking Roosevelt and equating him with Marx and Lenin.
So even history has shown that even when the Democrats were in control, they always have fought amongst themselves.
F. Lots of "Corporate Dems" who vote Republican. If this were true, then why did 99% of the Democrats vote in favor for the House bill healthcare plan and all Democratic Senators vote for the bill? They all have been bought off by corporate America.
So in conclusion, no matter what I say, you'll always say that the Democrats never do anything wrong and it's always the Republicans that have created all our woe's.
I bet you couldn't even credit any Republican presidents for good they've done.
Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday. Gender:
Posted:
Feb 18, 2010 - 3:19pm
fuh2 wrote:
A) Clinton faced a huge budget deficit too but by raising the top tax rate by just 5% to 39% he had a budget surplus in 2000. It also helped that he had a Tech Dot.com Boom which Clinton and Gore had a big hand in by intiating the national "Super-Information Highway" as they callled it then. In 1990 most peoople hadnt a clue about what CLinton/Gore were talking about. It was mostly Gore's baby. Thanks Al.
B)Yeah, the Boom from 2000 to 2008 was just another big Boom but it was built on a house of cards JUST like the 1920's Boom built on finance, mortgages and stocks. It ended with the Crash of 1929 which initiated the Great Depression.
c) Fannie and Freddie are PRIVATE/Public banks. So, they got greedy too just like the Wall Street banks who had been pushing and buying SUBPRIME LOANS since 2001. Freddie and Fannie didnt start buying Subprimes until 2006! And then only very limited compared to the Big Boyz on Wall Street. FMFM only bought a small fraction of the subprimes. Wall Street was pleading for more and more subprimes from the mortgage lenders for their infamous risky Collateralized Derivatives market which they were selling all over the world which sparked the global meltdown when most of the subprimes started turning bad.
D) WOW. If anything defines greed its the Republicans who take 3 times the corporate campaign donations than Democrats do. Wall Street greed was the driving force for the meltdown. ANd that was because of the Republicans who deregulated them and cut their top tax rate down to 15% on Cap Gains and from 75% to 30% on income.
A low tax always unleashes incredible greed on Wall Street. THere wasnt a SINGLE banking crisis when the top tax rate was oveer 70% from 1936 to 1980. Reagan dropped the top rate down to 28% in 1986 and a year later we had the S and L Banking crisis with a large stock crash.
E.) AND you can thank the Democrats for ALL those safety nets which the Republicans have voted AGAINST every time just like a national health care program now.
F) The Coprporations are now buying off the Dems too just like they ALWAYS have the Republicans. So we now have a lot of "Corporate Dems" who vote Republican. We need to purge them out of office.
Well there you go again! Thank you Ron.
A. The Goremyster has been trying to lay claim that he created the internet "Super-Information Highway" for years when it was started mainly in California in the 60's and blossomed in the 70's. It was created as an interscholastic informational hub between schools like Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA, MIT (east coast) and a derivative of the government agency of DARPA called ARPANET. Towards the end of the 80's its need for growth forced It exploded into the scene in 1991 with further development of the hypertext protocol. Do you remember Mosaics or did Al create that to ?
B. And if we go by what you say that Al created the "Super-Information Highway" in the 90's, then he is to blame for the 2000 to 2008 house of cards right?
C. Fannie and Freddie are PRIVATE/Public banks. Truewith an open backing by the government. They got too big and too powerful with no government oversite, doing what they wanted and how they wanted to do things with the blessings of both parties.
D. Reagan dropped the top rate down to 28% in 1986 and a year later we had the S and L Banking crisis with a large stock crash. Really. You really want to go down that road. It takes more than a year to have created that fiasco and started festering in the late 70's . Shall I mention Jimmy Carter and 76 to 80?
E. If I recall, the Great Depression was corrected with the creation of "The New Deal" by FDR. With initial hesitation by the republican party, they worked together in creating programs such as the WPA and Social Security Act. And I think FDR was one of the greatest presidents in US history.
Now this is pulled from Wiki:Roosevelt worked with Republican Senator George Norris to create the largest government-owned industrial enterprise in American history. and Conservative Democrats, led by Al Smith, fought back with the American Liberty League, savagely attacking Roosevelt and equating him with Marx and Lenin.
So even history has shown that even when the Democrats were in control, they always have fought amongst themselves.
F. Lots of "Corporate Dems" who vote Republican. If this were true, then why did 99% of the Democrats vote in favor for the House bill healthcare plan and all Democratic Senators vote for the bill? They all have been bought off by corporate America.
So in conclusion, no matter what I say, you'll always say that the Democrats never do anything wrong and it's always the Republicans that have created all our woe's.
I bet you couldn't even credit any Republican presidents for good they've done.
A.) It's remarkable how they can't see the trees through the forest. Why did you stop at Bush2 and not include Obama? At this rate it will be doubled to 23 Trillion by the Obama administration after his first and only term.
B) Seems that I had a job during 1981-1992 slim pickins' from 1993-2000 and then work again from 2000 and on. Can you explain that?
C) It was necessary to spend that money to stop the bleeding. 3 Trillion dollars worth? Stimulus package? Cash for Clunkers? Fannie Mae? Freddie Mac? Thanks Barnie Frank! He knew and did nothing! The banks that are screwing us over big time! The American car companies that build crap and the unions that are sooooo overpaid at $60/hr to tighten a screw and then complain they want more health-care concessions.
D) GREED is screwing us over in this country. It's the ME! ME! ME! mentality. "I'm OK and who cares about you".
E) And don't even compare the Great Depression to today's economic crisis. It's not even close. You have no idea what it was like unless you lived it. There were no fail safe's or safety nets for anyone. Everybody was in the same boat then except for the very rich. No food, no heat, no hosing, no medical care, no jobs.
I completely believe that we're watching the disintegration of the Republican party, due to its refusal to help the country and its disingenuous political obstructionism. EDIT: I completely believe that we're watching the disintegration of the Republican Democratic party, due to its refusal to work with the country's wishes. Who is dropping out of the race before the midterm elections start? Not the Republicans.
The greatest complement I ever received was by then Representative Paul Tsongas when I won a debate I had with him when I was in high school. He knew that I was on the Republican side of the spectrum and he still said that I should run for political office. I said I had no ambitions to to so, only to voice my opinion. He was one of the most down to earth Democratic statesman I've ever known and one who is missed. He was a real Democrat, not the one's that are in office today.
F) Who controls congress? Both the House, Senate, and Presidency! Democrats. They can't even work amongst themselves. So don't put the blame on one party when it runs deep on both sides.
A) Clinton faced a huge budget deficit too but by raising the top tax rate by just 5% to 39% he had a budget surplus in 2000. It also helped that he had a Tech Dot.com Boom which Clinton and Gore had a big hand in by intiating the national "Super-Information Highway" as they callled it then. In the 1992 campaign most people hadnt a clue about what CLinton/Gore were talking about. It was mostly Gore's baby. Thanks Al.
B)Yeah, the Boom from 2000 to 2008 was just another big Boom but it was built on a house of cards JUST like the 1920's Boom built on finance, mortgages and stocks. It ended with the Crash of 1929 which initiated the Great Depression. DEMOCRAT FDR's huge New Deal jobs stimulus brought the unemployment rate from 25% in 1933 down to 14% by '36. The enormous WW2 stimulus ended the Great Depression with full employment. Unfortunately though, that left no long lasting infrastructure like his New Deal did.
c) Fannie and Freddie are PRIVATE/Public banks. So, they got greedy too just like the Wall Street banks who had been pushing and buying SUBPRIME LOANS since 2001. Freddie and Fannie didnt start buying Subprimes until 2006! And then only very limited compared to the Big Boyz on Wall Street. FMFM only bought a small fraction of the subprimes. Wall Street was pleading for more and more subprimes from the mortgage lenders for their infamous risky Collateralized Derivatives market which they were selling all over the world which sparked the global meltdown when most of the subprimes started turning bad.
D) WOW. If anything defines greed its the Republicans who take 3 times the corporate campaign donations than Democrats do. Wall Street greed was the driving force for the meltdown. ANd that was because of the Republicans who deregulated them and cut their top tax rate down to 15% on Cap Gains and from 75% to 30% on income.
A low tax always unleashes incredible greed on Wall Street. THere wasnt a SINGLE banking crisis when the top tax rate was oveer 70% from 1936 to 1980. Reagan dropped the top rate down to 28% in 1986 and a year later we had the S and L Banking crisis with a large stock crash.
E.) AND you can thank the Democrats for ALL those safety nets which the Republicans have voted AGAINST every time just like a national health care program now.
F) The Coprporations are now buying off the Dems too just like they ALWAYS have the Republicans. So we now have a lot of "Corporate Dems" who vote Republican. We need to purge them out of office.
Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday. Gender:
Posted:
Feb 18, 2010 - 11:54am
kurtster wrote:
Obama 2009 - 2010 $11>$14 trillion
that's $ 3 trillion in 1 year.
just sayin'
Thank you for posting the omission of fuh2.
It's remarkable how they can't see the trees through the forest. Why did you stop at Bush2 and not include Obama? At this rate it will be doubled to 23 Trillion by the Obama administration after his first and only term.
Seems that I had a job during 1981-1992 slim pickins' from 1993-2000 and then work again from 2000 and on. Can you explain that?
It was necessary to spend that money to stop the bleeding. 3 Trillion dollars worth? Stimulus package? Cash for Clunkers? Fannie Mae? Freddie Mac? Thanks Barnie Frank! He knew and did nothing! The banks that are screwing us over big time! The American car companies that build crap and the unions that are sooooo overpaid at $60/hr to tighten a screw and then complain they want more health-care concessions.
GREED is screwing us over in this country. It's the ME! ME! ME! mentality. "I'm OK and who cares about you".
And don't even compare the Great Depression to today's economic crisis. It's not even close. You have no idea what it was like unless you lived it. There were no fail safe's or safety nets for anyone. Everybody was in the same boat then except for the very rich. No food, no heat, no hosing, no medical care, no jobs.
I completely believe that we're watching the disintegration of the Republican party, due to its refusal to help the country and its disingenuous political obstructionism. EDIT: I completely believe that we're watching the disintegration of the Republican Democratic party, due to its refusal to work with the country's wishes. Who is dropping out of the race before the midterm elections start? Not the Republicans.
The greatest complement I ever received was by then Representative Paul Tsongas when I won a debate I had with him when I was in high school. He knew that I was on the Republican side of the spectrum and he still said that I should run for political office. I said I had no ambitions to to so, only to voice my opinion. He was one of the most down to earth Democratic statesman I've ever known and one who is missed. He was a real Democrat, not the one's that are in office today.
Who controls congress? Both the House, Senate, and Presidency! Democrats. They can't even work amongst themselves. So don't put the blame on one party when it runs deep on both sides.
Just sayin' what? That he was handed a sh*tstorm, including the collapse of the banking system and real estate market and job market and international relations, and at least one poorly considered and extended war, and then within one year hasn't been able to do more while spending less while confronted with about half his Congress actively obstructing anything he tries to accomplish?
Remember, he didn't have an opportunity to change policy beginning on day one. All the collapse that was occurring as he stepped into office, and the continuing collapse that had inertia into the beginning of his term - that can't be his doing, logically.
I know better than to have heroes, and I'm intentionally not registered as either Dem or Repub. But it's clear to an outsider that the GOP has been obstreperous and selfish, while the country collapses under their lack of cooperation. I completely believe that we're watching the disintegration of the Republican party, due to its refusal to help the country and its disingenuous political obstructionism.
Who runs the GOP and creates its policy? Steele? Limbaugh? Palin? Beck? Liz Cheney?
It was necessary to spend that money to stop the bleeding. To look strictly at the numbers does not give you a complete picture. It is the consensus among economists that this is not the time to start balancing the budget.
Yes, for reference, see "Great Depression". Doing nothing would have made it further spiral out of control and you would be seeing 20 % unemployment. I get sick and tired of people blaming Obama for what he inherited. A year from now maybe a different story but remember what he started with. He is starting debt reduction commision because congress was too wussified to do it, and of course, even though Republicans had previously wanted it, they are now, of course against it. I causght some of a Frontline show the other day and had to turn it off because its was just making me angry how the whole bank de-regulation came about, pushed by Phil Gram. There is more then a few Dems and Clinton who signed it that are to blame as well, but there was lady who got rolled for even suggesting to regulate the derivitives markets. People never learn.
It was necessary to spend that money to stop the bleeding. To look strictly at the numbers does not give you a complete picture. It is the consensus among economists that this is not the time to start balancing the budget.
Looks like you've been listening to the lying Republican liars on radio and TV. The 3 GOP Presidents Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, took our national debt from about $1 trillion to $11 Trillion.
Although there are many who are vocal in their criticism of how the authorities are handling the Christmas Day underwear bomber (specifically, reading him his Miranda rights) - there is no difference in how he is being handled by the current administration versus how Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) was handled under the previous administration.
If, on this 1 year anniversary, it is sooooooo successful, explain to me why the unemployment rate is still at 10% and to reflect all of the unemployed that have fallen out of the census and through the cracks is more like 12%. 2 million new jobs? Where are they working? Flipping burgers and bagging at your local market.
You bitch, pissed and moaned about the Republicans when they were in office, spending $400 billion on the war. I'll give you the Iraq part, not Afghanistan that is a given.
So what's your problem now? The Democrats have been in charge of both houses and can't get anything done amongst themselves. They're dropping like fly's before the midterm election, before they get their heads handed to them by the American public for bankrupting this once mighty and proud nation. We are in such a hole right now that it will take our Great, Great, Great grandchildren to pay the Chinese off for their stupidity. Is this something to be proud of?
I want to see you over spend the way they do on your income and budget. You'll be thrown so fast into incarceration you'll ask "where's my kiss"?
The only thing that they can do is SPEND SPEND SPEND. At last count, Nancy the queen is condensation, has put through $4 Trillion, I said $4 TRILLION not Billion as under the Republicans.
So lets say "It's the economy stupid". Well we have the major idiot from our state in charge as the Chairman of the House Finance Committee. Freddie Mac. Fanny Mae and Wall Street all fell under his watch after repeatingly being told 2 years in advance of the collapse what was about to happen. Ineffectual to say the least in his duties.
So when you blame the Republicans for this mess the trouble is on both sides of this dysfunctional legislative branch.
I'll still stay with the billions spent by the Republicans over the TRILLIONS wasted by the Democrats.
Looks like you've been listening to the lying Republican liars on radio and TV. The 3 GOP Presidents Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, took our national debt from about $1 trillion to $11 Trillion.
NATIONAL DEBT
Reagan 1980-1988 $1>$3 trillion
Bush 1- 1988-1992 $3>$5 Trillion
Clinton -1992-2000 $5>$5 trillion
Bush 2 -2000-2008 $5>$11 trillion
After the Republicans have brought the US economy down from 25 years of Voodoo Trickle Down economics of huge tax cuts for the super-rich and deregulation of the banks and everything else, we now have to spend hundreds of billions to jump start the economy again.
If the stimulus is a failure then why have 110 Republican congressmen praised it IN THEIR OWN STATE—- after they voted against it??
The stimulus has saved 100s of thousands of state jobs like teachers, police and firemen.
In 1929 after 3 Republican Presidents with huge tax cuts on the super rich and deregulation of the banks we had a bank, real estate and stock market boom and crash. Sound familiar? Hoover, like a good Republican, sat on his hands for 3 years while the economy kept plummeting-down to 25% unemployment by the time FDR got in in 1933. His New Deal brought the unemployment rate down to 12% and then WW2 in 1941 was a huge stimulus that dwarfed our current one. We then had 100% employment.
Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday. Gender:
Posted:
Feb 17, 2010 - 9:25pm
I'll bite. The stimulus is a failure.
If, on this 1 year anniversary, it is sooooooo successful, explain to me why the unemployment rate is still at 10% and to reflect all of the unemployed that have fallen out of the census and through the cracks is more like 12%. 2 million new jobs? Where are they working? Flipping burgers and bagging at your local market.
You bitch, pissed and moaned about the Republicans when they were in office, spending $400 billion on the war. I'll give you the Iraq part, not Afghanistan that is a given.
So what's your problem now? The Democrats have been in charge of both houses and can't get anything done amongst themselves. They're dropping like fly's before the midterm election, before they get their heads handed to them by the American public for bankrupting this once mighty and proud nation. We are in such a hole right now that it will take our Great, Great, Great grandchildren to pay the Chinese off for their stupidity. Is this something to be proud of?
I want to see you over spend the way they do on your income and budget. You'll be thrown so fast into incarceration you'll ask "where's my kiss"?
The only thing that they can do is SPEND SPEND SPEND. At last count, Nancy the queen is condensation, has put through $4 Trillion, I said $4 TRILLION not Billion as under the Republicans.
So lets say "It's the economy stupid". Well we have the major idiot from our state in charge as the Chairman of the House Finance Committee. Freddie Mac. Fanny Mae and Wall Street all fell under his watch after repeatingly being told 2 years in advance of the collapse what was about to happen. Ineffectual to say the least in his duties.
So when you blame the Republicans for this mess the trouble is on both sides of this dysfunctional legislative branch.
I'll still stay with the billions spent by the Republicans over the TRILLIONS wasted by the Democrats.
Another expose' of Republicon blatant hypocrisy today that the Corporate Media will never cover or report. Every human is guilty of lies and hypocrisy. But the Republicans have mastered it to an artform. How else could they get so many votes from the middle class when they really represent the interests of the wealthy top 2% and their transnational corporate campaign contributors??
I've got to hand it to Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT), he knocks it out of the park on this. Republicans with their phony deficit concerns want to put the blame of their failed Conservative policies on Democrats and President Obama. But the money quote is right here.
"I really don't like being lectured on deficits when you (Sen. Gregg) and many members of your party (Republicans) helped cause the situation we are in right now."
~snip~
"Please, please, spare the lectures on deficit reduction."
~ Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Sen. Sanders (I-VT): "Let me begin by saying something to my friend Senator Gregg, through the chairman, through the chairman. I really don't like being lectured on deficits when you (Sen. Gregg) and many members of your party (Republicans) helped cause the situation we are in right now. "
"People voted, Senator Gregg, I believe you are one of them, for a war in Iraq, which some people will think will cost two or three trillion dollars, but you forgot to pay for that war.
You and other people voted for tax breaks for the wealthiest 1%, costs $600 billion dollars, forgot to pay for that.
You voted for a prescription drug medicare bill which will cost $400 billion dollars but doesn't negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry, forgot to ask how that was going to be paid for,
you voted for the $700 Wallstreet bailout
and I believe you want to repeal the inheritance tax, which will cost a trillion dollars over a ten year period, benefiting the top 3/10ths of 1%. I voted against all of those things, so please, please, spare the lectures on deficit reduction."
Later in the video, Senator Sanders mentions the fact that America's top 1% of wealthiest citizens earns more income the bottom 50% COMBINED. RNC Chairman Micheal Steele says that a million dollars after tax isn't that much money, but it is, a lot more than it was before George W. Bush's and the so called Fiscal Conservatives passed tax cuts for the rich without considering how that would affect America's ability to raise the revenue needed to balance the budget. Of course, Fiscal Conservatives will claim that all one needs to do is cut spending too, unless it is for war. But if war is so necessary why isn't health care reform, or cutting back on pollution, or a number of other issues. Maybe it is because the only thing fiscally conservative about so called fiscal conservatives is the fact that they insist on calling themselves fiscal conservatives.
In the real world, taking something without paying for it is called STEALING. It's like Robin Hood in reverse, fiscal conservatives like to rob from the poor and give to the rich.
But what so called fiscal conservatives are really trying to do can be best summed up by the example I have provided below.
Imagine sharing an apartment with someone and going grocery shopping and then watching your roommate, who didn't spend a dime of his own money, clean out the fridge while you are at work. When you get home and discover what has happened your roommate immediately blames you for the mess and then insists that whatever food is left must be rationed between the two of you. And your roommate will not let you cook what you want, only what he wants.
The same story works with booze as well, and would be appropriate, because the so called Fiscal Conservatives of the GOP and their BushDog/ConservaDem counterparts have spent like drunken sailors on shore leave when in power, and only when they are out of power and beginning to sober up do they start actually caring about deficits and debt, but fortunately, they don't ever remember what caused those deficits. How can they remember that THEY caused the deficits if they are trying to blame it on Democrats and the current Administration?
The best way to counter this move by Conservatives to try and blame Democrats for our deficits and hamstring our ability to pass our agenda is to simply tell the truth. The truth is that so called Fiscal Conservatives such as George W. Bush, Ben Nelson, Judd Gregg and Eric Cantor didn't even try to pay for any of their plans, instead they left all of their deficits on the White House front door
——————————————————————————————————————————————————- More blatant Republican hypoocrisy
REPORT: After Voting To Kill Recovery, 110 GOP Lawmakers Tout Its Success, Ask For More Money ThinkProgress has investigated opponents of the Recovery Act, reporting throughout the year that many of the lawmakers who tried to kill the legislation have been returning to their home states to claim credit for popular stimulus programs. In a new research report, ThinkProgress finds that over half of the GOP caucus, 110 lawmakers - from the House and Senate - are guilty of stimulus hypocrisy. Among some of the key findings:
- Top Republican Senate Recruits Are Stimulus Hypocrites: As ThinkProgress reported, Rep. Mike Castle (R-DE), a candidate for Senate, touted over $5 million in stimulus programs he voted to kill. Rep. Mark Kirk (R-IL), the GOP nominee for Senate in Illinois, signed a letter urging Gov. Pat Quinn to provide "Recovery Act (ARRA) funding to expand the Illinois Community College Sustainability Network."
- GOP Leadership Leads The Way In Hypocrisy: Although he regularly slams the stimulus as a waste while in DC,McConnell has returned to Kentucky to take credit for stimulus programs, even taking time to request more funds. ThinkProgress attended two job fairs held by Cantor, where we found dozens of employers able to hire directly because of the stimulus. Indeed, even Boehner's office released a statement boasting that the stimulus will create "much needed jobs."
- The Audacity Of Hypocrisy Knows No Bounds: Many opponents of the stimulus have been quite brazen with their ability to try to claim credit for the program. For instance, Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA) spent the morning of July 28th railing against the stimulus, yelling "Where's the stimulus package? Where's the jobs?" on the House floor. On the same day of his rant, Kingston's office sent out multiple press releases bragging that he had secured hundreds of thousands in stimulus funds to hire additional police officers in his district. Other stimulus opponents, likeRep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA) - who has called the stimulus a "trillion dollar debt bill" - have printed out jumbo-sized ceremonial stimulus checks to present to local communities to try to garner positive press.
Individually, over half of the entire Republican caucus has hailed nearly every aspect of the stimulus as a success - from infrastructure funds, to food programs, to education grants. But politically, admitting its success might harm the GOP's chances in November. So with Republicans fixated on winning politically, they have focused on deceiving the public by calling the stimulus a failure, while pretending successful programs aren't stimulus funded.
