For what it's worth (and I know that ain't much) and to get back on topic, I do believe for lack of a better term, there is a war on women. Why are old white men the ones making the rules when it comes to women's reproductive rights? You can damn well bet if men were the ones who got pregnant, Walmart would have specials like "Abortion Fridays" and it would all be paid for, no probes, no questions asked. Of course, all birth control would be covered by insurance too. I mean, it's 2012 and women are still not getting equal pay for equal work. Who's calling the shots? We all know that answer.
For what it's worth (and I know that ain't much) and to get back on topic, I do believe for lack of a better term, there is a war on women. Why are old white men the ones making the rules when it comes to women's reproductive rights? You can damn well bet if men were the ones who got pregnant, Walmart would have specials like "Abortion Fridays" and it would all be paid for, no probes, no questions asked. Of course, all birth control would be covered by insurance too.
I mean, it's 2012 and women are still not getting equal pay for equal work. Who's calling the shots? We all know that answer.
The upside is that it is now more "real" and you will be held accountable for what you say. Fun as the old days were, I actually really appreciate the more mature RP. This is no longer a place where you can just spew. People here know each other. We expect and deserve more than just 2D black and white discourse. And I get a really good buzz when people like Islander and Winter call people out on their mode of delivery.
That's what I'm thinking. Spew leads to more spew. Where does it end? When people drift away? No.
FWIW I hate to see people get DD'ed. They all came here, found something, stuck around — and crossed a line. I'd prefer that their "punishment" be that they learn sumpin'.
I'm not saying you can't spew.. just keep it in the ballpark.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 21, 2012 - 5:04pm
NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
:wrysmileemoticonthingy:
For the little bit it is worth, I read through all two pages of this thread and actually liked (almost) all I read. I really do appreciate the voice of reason and I actually think most of you here do too and are coming at this from different angles but the passion is the same and that makes me feel good.
.. it made me even think back to the beginning when I first discovered this place, and this is probably totally skewed by own personal perspective, but back then RP was my first experience of the internet. It was pre-FB, it was even pre-blog. In fact there was stuff all on the internet where the kind of free and open discourse of RP was going on. I found it extremely liberating. You could say stuff. All kinds of stuff. You could even adopt personas or run with a theme, jump into vats of chocolate and squaff scallops, steal the keys to the moonbats mobile from BHD's cleavage and etc. etc. It was bloody marvellous. But it was kind of a guilty pleasure. None of my friends in Germany could relate to it and thought the internet, and everything associated with it, was intrinsically sick. It was the domain of child-porn and stalkers and they looked at me askance when I talked of this amazing new radio station I'd discovered. So I ended up keeping it to myself and there was a pretty strict delineation in my mind between real life and the internet..
.. and then it matured. After a while, you do kind of get to know people here. Everyone carries their own special signature. They way they talk, the things they say. It got to the point that I could pick people pretty quickly when they went incognito and entered here under another pseuonym. Cos, in the end, you are you. And you will always be you. And I still see this place as pretty much a forerunner of internet usage. It is evolving, and it is now becoming a mainstream form of communication. The downside is that those heady days of liberation from social mores are gone. The upside is that it is now more "real" and you will be held accountable for what you say. Fun as the old days were, I actually really appreciate the more mature RP. This is no longer a place where you can just spew. People here know each other. We expect and deserve more than just 2D black and white discourse. And I get a really good buzz when people like Islander and Winter call people out on their mode of delivery.
Ok, so this makes the whole place more adult, and less of a playground than it used to be (though there is time for that too, I guess) but that loss is easily made up for by the salience that is gained.
I have a lot of respect for everyone here that holds others to a certain standard of delivery. I also still this place here as a forum for all sides of whatever spectrum is involved. I actually welcome the opportunity to discuss things with people who hold views that are totally opposite to my own. But I do expect a certain level of debate. It is more than simple decorum. I expect people to respect each other, no matter where they are coming from. People are complex, and the myopic branding of issues and people into black and white is for me like something from back in the early days of the internet, where you could say what you wanted and were never held accountable. Like in kindergarten.
Apologies, I didn't mean to imply that I was leaving RP... I'm NOT, I will simply abandon my friendship with HP, as that would appear to be her desire.
:wrysmileemoticonthingy:
For the little bit it is worth, I read through all two pages of this thread and actually liked (almost) all I read. I really do appreciate the voice of reason and I actually think most of you here do too and are coming at this from different angles but the passion is the same and that makes me feel good.
.. it made me even think back to the beginning when I first discovered this place, and this is probably totally skewed by own personal perspective, but back then RP was my first experience of the internet. It was pre-FB, it was even pre-blog. In fact there was stuff all on the internet where the kind of free and open discourse of RP was going on. I found it extremely liberating. You could say stuff. All kinds of stuff. You could even adopt personas or run with a theme, jump into vats of chocolate and squaff scallops, steal the keys to the moonbats mobile from BHD's cleavage and etc. etc. It was bloody marvellous. But it was kind of a guilty pleasure. None of my friends in Germany could relate to it and thought the internet, and everything associated with it, was intrinsically sick. It was the domain of child-porn and stalkers and they looked at me askance when I talked of this amazing new radio station I'd discovered. So I ended up keeping it to myself and there was a pretty strict delineation in my mind between real life and the internet..
.. and then it matured. After a while, you do kind of get to know people here. Everyone carries their own special signature. They way they talk, the things they say. It got to the point that I could pick people pretty quickly when they went incognito and entered here under another pseuonym. Cos, in the end, you are you. And you will always be you. And I still see this place as pretty much a forerunner of internet usage. It is evolving, and it is now becoming a mainstream form of communication. The downside is that those heady days of liberation from social mores are gone. The upside is that it is now more "real" and you will be held accountable for what you say. Fun as the old days were, I actually really appreciate the more mature RP. This is no longer a place where you can just spew. People here know each other. We expect and deserve more than just 2D black and white discourse. And I get a really good buzz when people like Islander and Winter call people out on their mode of delivery.
Ok, so this makes the whole place more adult, and less of a playground than it used to be (though there is time for that too, I guess) but that loss is easily made up for by the salience that is gained.
I have a lot of respect for everyone here that holds others to a certain standard of delivery. I also still see this place here as a forum for all sides of whatever spectrum is involved. I actually welcome the opportunity to discuss things with people who hold views that are totally opposite to my own. But I do expect a certain level of debate. It is more than simple decorum. I expect people to respect each other, no matter where they are coming from. People are complex, and the myopic branding of issues and people into black and white is for me like something from back in the early days of the internet, where you could say what you wanted and were never held accountable. Like in kindergarten.
Woa. Woa! Deep Breath please peeps. Everyone feels passionately right now, but adding to it is some serious planetary Mal going on... don't fuel yourselves into anger. You'll just all feel shitty tomorrow.
I made the mistake of thinking that I could have a conversation about the subject.
But you're not having a conversation. That is the whole point. You're hiding behind posted links and casting wild statements. Link re-posting is furthering an agenda. They're not your words at all.
There may very well be a war on women, or if not a war, then a general move to roll back reproductive rights. I don't necessarily disagree with that.
It's worse over in the Mitt Romney forum, where you're just reposting the trash others are saying about him on the Internet. That's when RP becomes a toxic waste dump. I would expect the trashier blogs to bash Obama and/or Romney, but RP is not a trashy blog.
Apologies, I didn't mean to imply that I was leaving RP... I'm NOT, I will simply abandon my friendship with HP, as that would appear to be her desire.
.... Zep, you probably feel pretty beaten up at the moment, and for that, I'm genuinely sorry. Like the example of Deni, I am using your post as a launching pad for my own essay about the occasional level of discourse I find in the forums... you just happened to be the one at that moment to wander into a thread and launch a missile at someone who was only looking for a discussion on a topic she feels passionate about; it could have been anyone else. ... Peace.
Naww, I'm cool J. I can't respond at the moment (stove is boiling over and all), but thanks for your words. Will come back at ya later.
The topic here could have been called "Women's Issues". She could have posted a neutral and sincere query such as "which candidate do you think has women's best interests at heart, and why?", or "which candidate do you think will provide better outcomes for American women if elected, and why?" and decided to consider people's replies considerately and respectfully, even if she thinks they are wrong.
Weeeellll..... shoulda, coulda, woulda. I think the topic name was chosen deliberately, and I don't have a problem with it... it's more specific than a more bland, "Women's Issues". I also don't have a problem with someone creating topics that are wholly and obviously partisan, as long as they don't get downright mean, racist, misogynistic, etc., in the title because it takes no effort whatsoever for me to avoid entering a thread I feel might be one-sided and sporting a particular bent.
Ms J, the discussion I was starting was not along political lines. I am NOT trying to make anyone go away. I'm trying to encourage greater responsibility in posting in the forums.
"War on Women" was where the action was Saturday morning. It could just as easily have been "Things I Thought Today."
I guess that was, in part, my point. Why come to this particular thread to carry out a complaint against a particular poster? Just because she created it?
Here's where I'm coming from: I know very well the shit storm Deni can stir up and I've seen the anger and hurt feelings she has generated. When she makes a mess all on her own I don't come rushing to her defense- I let her take a bloody nose, as any good friend should. On occasion, I even point out to her when it feels to me like she's crossed a line. (For what it's worth, I treat everyone here this way, not just Deni, but she was the target this time, so I hope she forgives me if I use her just as an example.) I don't ride her mercilessly, I don't insult her, I don't assume that she's a terrible person because she's said something crass, crazy, or insensitive. Negative reinforcement only produces negative results. I call her out, politely, firmly, and yes, with respect. And then I let it go.
But when she (or anyone) here on RP is required to take shit for doing nothing more than existing, then it's her detractors I'm likely to take to task.
I raised a bi-polar daughter to a successful adulthood without either of us landing in jail for murder because I learned very early that people are complex. Sometimes we're good, sometimes we're awful. Sometimes we're a joy to be around, other times, we stink the place up. Sometimes we're warm and generous and sometimes we're so ugly and hateful that the people around us would like to stuff us in a hole and cover it over with dirt. If there's a perfect way to encourage ugly, hateful, awful behavior, it's to punish someone continuously, without surcease, no matter how they're behaving. Are they being a shit? Punish them. Are they being polite? Punish them for the last time they were being a shit. When you do that, what you get on balance is shitty behavior more often than not.
I try very hard to take people as I find them, particularly online, where it's almost a given that I don't know them personally and can't possibly understand all the nuances of their moods, meanings, and motivations. Today you're behaving like a reasonable, rational person? That's what you'll get from me in kind. Tomorrow you behave like a raving wackaloon? I'm bound to ignore you. The next day you insult someone out of hand just because you're in a crappy mood? I'll call you out, gently, and suggest you pull yourself together. Get loose on a Friday night and have some fun? I'm bringing the wine. I try to adapt to people's quirks and oddness because I have plenty of my own and I know that my bad days don't define me.
Now certainly, everyone here is an adult and has the right to feel about everyone else any damned way they please. If you've been insulted and hurt by someone here, there's no good reason that I can think of that you should automatically forgive and forget. But is it so difficult to just ignore those people who've hurt you? Is it necessary to follow them around the forums reminding them that you hate them and their living guts? How does that elevate the level of debate? How does that strengthen the community? How does that add content to the forums?
Zep, you probably feel pretty beaten up at the moment, and for that, I'm genuinely sorry. Like the example of Deni, I am using your post as a launching pad for my own essay about the occasional level of discourse I find in the forums... you just happened to be the one at that moment to wander into a thread and launch a missile at someone who was only looking for a discussion on a topic she feels passionate about; it could have been anyone else.
We're all free to behave in any way we want, and we should all be prepared for the consequences of that behavior. For myself, I'll try to aim a little higher every day. That is the way in which I hope to contribute to this community that I love so well.
