France 'runs vast electronic spying operation using NSA-style methods'

Le Monde said that after Snowden's revelations about the NSA's Prism surveillance programme prompted indignation in Europe, France "only weakly protested, for two excellent reasons: Paris already knew about it, and it was doing the same thing".

 sirdroseph wrote: 
When well-written, some satires can seem somewhat feasible - well, I guess that's often the point.

 Proclivities wrote: 

Gotcha. It is funny though.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
You may wish to read these other stories from The Borowitz Report:
 

JUNE 26, 2013
SCALIA ARRESTED TRYING TO BURN DOWN SUPREME COURT

JUNE 20, 2013
TALIBAN NAMED BEST PLACE TO WORK 2013
POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ
"Hours later, the Taliban spokesman offered this response: 'Hamid Karzai doesn’t sound very chill. He’d really have to dial it back if he wanted to fit in at a workplace like this.'”

JUNE 13, 2013
MURDOCH DIVORCE STUNS SATAN
POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ

The third story does have a great title.  Oddly (or maybe not), this satire has already been pasted all over the web - word-for-word.  In my experience, anytime there is a quote from an unnamed "spokesman" and no link to its source, the story's credibility become dubious, especially when every other appearance of the story is verbatim.

 

 

I really don't even know where to begin with this:

U.S. Seemingly Unaware of Irony in Accusing Snowden of Spying

Naked?

 kurtster wrote: 
"My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government.   We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration.  Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government. "- you know who, I can't even type his name or I'll vomit

 kurtster wrote: 
Hope.

 cc_rider wrote: 

I see great parallels between the two cases.

But what is different in this case is the reaction.  This time the gubmit defense is to demonize the messenger and make everyone forget about the actual message.

Case in point.  What is the first thing we learned about Snowden from the gubmit ?  He is a high school dropout.  So what does that have to do with anything ?  The gubmit is trying to make the focus on Snowden and demonize him with as much malice as possible.

This isn't about Snowden, its about the gubmit caught redhanded.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
I'm not entirely up to speed on the details to date, but I'm curious how different this is from the Ellsberg case. From Wiki:

Ellsberg said:

I felt that as an American citizen, as a responsible citizen, I could no longer cooperate in concealing this information from the American public. I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision.

There is still reasonable debate as to whether D.E. did the right thing, but clearly he revealed shenanigans perpetrated by our 'leaders'. 


 

 Lazy8 wrote: 
I don't want to rant, I've got better things to do. However, if this country fails to unite and stand behind this decent man, all hope is truly lost.

Monkeysdad wrote:

So it's OK to tell the truth, just do it discretely?

He attached his name to the story, gave it provenance and credibility rather than lurking in the shadows. The way he did it makes the authenticity of the information undeniable; we are arguing over the policy now rather than over whether the reports are accurate or not. Deep Throat was just another anonymous bureaucrat with an axe to grind, and a lot of people at the time dismissed the story as partisan. If Mark Felt had been willing to attach his name to what he leaked to the WaPo Watergate might not have dragged on as long as it did.

My problem with all this is mostly what he told the truth about, but I'm also dismayed that telling the truth about something like this can ruin a man. Why should the blame for that—any blame for that—fall on an honest man?

 kurtster wrote: 
Transparency and hope! Just can't figger who's behind all this.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  The US will hunt him down and make an example out of him.  More than likely a grizzly one to discourage others who might follow in his footsteps.

I've seen too much to believe in the proper channels for whistleblowing to work properly anymore.  Who knows how well he thought this all out.  One possible scenario of him flying from Hawaii to DC to meet with a US Senator could have been a fool's errand based on what he knows.  He may have never made it and knew that that kind of journey would be impossible to complete successfully.  It would take a hell of a lot of coordination to find a Senator that was sympathetic and successfully have the meeting.  This is not something that one can shop around to find a sympathetic ear.  And how do you communicate securely in his position ?

I think that he took his best shot to make sure that the stuff gets out.  While Hong Kong is China, it is still a place where the UK has deep connections with the people and some sort of freedoms still exist there.  Making connections with sympathetic ears, especially the western press to break the story is highly likely and did indeed happen. 

What happens next will be interesting.

And speaking of consequences to those unfriendly towards our government ...

WikiLeaks: Journalist Michael Hastings Under FBI Investigation Before Death

FBI issues standard 'no comment,' swats at emerging conspiracy theories

 By Steven Nelson

June 20, 2013

 Lazy8 wrote: 



"Get what he deserves"?! I don't think I quite said that. What I did say though was that he did this wrong, that his life is fucked, and the collateral damage to those in his sphere as well as himself will be large for the foreseeable future. Again, maybe I'm oversimplifying here but Deep Throat - an FBI Agent if I recall, fed Woodward and Bernstein everything needed to bring down a corrupt administration in 72/73 and emerged from the shadows only years ago as a hero to all that followed the events, NO collateral damage to family, friends, etc. No getting crushed under anyone's heel.

If indeed he does get crushed, and he most likely will, at the end of the day it will be because of the choice he made, when there were less harmful ones to make.

 Monkeysdad wrote:   Yeah, and I deleted it.
 
Everyone has to make their own choices. If he felt this needed to be done, I respect that. More importantly, I admire it.

 He's a kid(well, compared to me) who felt he did the right thing.

 Anyway, I guess I'm more of a coward than he is.

 I have to take care of my Dad or he'll die in a Hell hole nursing home. Snowdens  probably not in that position, I dunno though.

  You know the power of a debriefing, there are no statute of limitations.

 You break it, you die. EOS.

 I'll say it again, I think he's a hero and a true patriot.

 Besides, what could I do? Get Ronald Reagan impeached?
 
 

Monkeysdad wrote:
So this is all his fault, he's getting what he deserves? And we should just...accept this?

He was put in an impossible situation for a person of principle. He didn't create that position, he found it—and found himself within it. He could either go along with it and be part of it, or fight it. He chose what he's being condemned for, what he's being hunted for: he told the truth about what's being done to us. To us—not the terrorists, not some foreign power—to us.

And apparently us knowing this is so bad the man who told us needs to be crushed beneath the heel of the beast that's been doing it.

Me, I'm grateful to him. I'd rather know the score. And I don't trust anybody with that kind of power over us.

 bokey wrote: 



Take a look at what Chris Boyce has written about it. Personal gain obviously wasn't in the cards, but good Gawd the pain that CB brought down on those that loved him most, and there were many(I knew the family in my PV days) was brutal to say the least.

As I mentioned, he could of done this differently...think Deep Throat and Watergate, there are better paths to revealing the truth without taking down the lives of those one loves the most. I believe you mentioned the other day that you'd like to divulge things you yourself know and feel strongly about...when Pop won't be affected by it.

Edward Snowden got this wrong, hence my 'poor misguided SOB' remark.

 Monkeysdad wrote: 
He's basically dead. The traitors running the current admin will brand HIM as a traitor and won't quit until he's dead and silenced for good. Honesty, character and dignity are things the current admin holds as contemptible and foolish, since he did it for no personal gain, only for the greater good.