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NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2021 - 11:55am

 haresfur wrote:

Well not through the ransom attacks but I think Putin is testing Biden in other ways.



Putin is a 19C anomaly who still has visions of Russian greatness and can't divorce his own private standing from that of his nation. He is an anachronism and I can't wait for him to disappear from the world stage. The irony is that Russia is a great nation and would be so much better off without him.
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 3, 2021 - 9:53am

 kurtster wrote:

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.


Tough to know if those were state sponsored attacks or state (after the fact) approved attacks but either way the answer is “Yes” as Russia and the US have been constantly testing one another for as long as I can remember. I suppose Joe just doesn’t want to give Putin any “props”... as they say. 

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 2, 2021 - 3:55pm

 kurtster wrote:

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.


Well not through the ransom attacks but I think Putin is testing Biden in other ways.

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 2, 2021 - 3:38pm

 kurtster wrote:

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.


So you know what Joe's thinking? Even better than he does?

Only use your powers for good.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 2, 2021 - 3:13pm

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 20, 2021 - 1:10pm

 kcar wrote:






"Where I live... almost all the infections and deaths from Covid in this area came from people travailing back and forth to Mexicali to visit family."

KurtfromLaQuinta, with all due respect, how you determine this? Covid is so prevalent in this country that contact tracing is useless. 




Well... where I live has experienced this.
Friends I know, or people I know of, have contacted it or died from it going to Mexicali to visit their families.
The stats of Covid from communities like Mexicali show what I said is true.
Covid has ravaged Mexicali.


VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 6:26am

 kcar wrote:


You are really struggling here. 

"Yes, these American citizens, the small business owners, their families and their employees who have been forced out of business by strict Covid protocols that those coming into the country illegally are not subject to for openers. These are real victims with faces and names. People of all colors and religions who are also American citizens. We citizens activities are restricted by Covid, yet the illegally present non citizens in this country are not."


Detained illegal immigrants are separated from the general US population and do not threaten to infect the general US population with Covid. Such immigrants are treated for Covid as much as US govt. resources allow. They are vaccinated against Covid as well. They are asked about their vaccination history for other diseases as well and are vaccinated for those diseases while detained if the need arises. 

This is CDC policy (which AFAICT ICE violated under Trump). It is the humane and practical thing to do. The current surge of immigrants has overwhelmed US detainment facilities and caused serious overcrowding. Under those conditions, transmission of Covid AND other diseases is a lot easier. Treating and vaccinating immigrants detained in the US helps prevent the spread of infectious diseases in this country. 

Detained immigrants, once released into the general population, are going to face the same Covid-related restrictions that American citizens face. For instance, immigrants and US citizens will have to wear a mask to shop in a grocery store. Illegal immigrants are not puttin' on the Ritz mask-free, Kurt. 


"In San Diego for example, teachers have been given offers to teach detained non citizen children in person while their American citizen regular students sit stuck at home on Zoom because their teachers won't come back to in person teaching in the classroom because they are afraid for their lives of getting infected by Covid."

That's in San Diego—one city. The city offered the option of teaching detained immigrant children in person to volunteers among teachers. The city is not forcing teachers to teach detained children, online or in person. So this awful, awful activity you condemn is being done with the blessing of the city government and the free will of some teachers. This NY Post piece states that 15 teachers were teaching at the San Diego Convention Center. 

A quick googling suggests that the population of kids detained in the San Diego Convention Center was around 700 in late March. I have no idea whether this situation is still going on, but the articles I've glanced at state that the call for volunteers went out when American students were on spring break. 

Not a big deal unless you're a professional victim of Culture Wars. 

"Your position demeans the notion and value of being a citizen of this country. You put non citizens ahead of citizens by your looking the other way and supporting these open borders. You knowingly voted for open borders when you voted for Biden. There was no bait and switch."


I had very little interest in Biden's position on immigration when I voted for him. I'm not sure that issue was on my top-ten list. Biden is not for open borders. Look at all the heat he took for suggesting he'd limit immigration to 15,000 people per year. 

The US is still struggling through a pandemic. 500,000+ Americans have died. (BTW, epidemiologists have estimated that only 100,000 would have died if the Trump administration had worked more quickly and competently to contain Covid.) The problems that Covid present are going to intersect with other American problems, like illegal immigration. The Biden administration and the US states are working through the problems—some new, some just aggravated—that the combination of Covid and a surge of illegal immigration have created. 

What are you proposing the US should do instead, Kurt? Gas the illegals with Zyklon B? Herd them into camps to die on their own? Send them to Mexico? Actually you can't do the last option 'cause Mexico says it's running of room. 


"That is it for the last time. Myself and others have been trying to make this point for since this Covid began. You and others have steadfastly refused to acknowledge this as a legitimate concern the entire time. And persistently continue to ignore this legitimate concern of many, many people."


Frankly, I don't recall seeing your complaints about Covid and illegal immigrants spreading Covid and/or living it up while good 'Muricans hunker down and mask up. Frankly, this strikes me as a new honk for you. 


"You won't even allow the distinction to be made between legal and illegal immigration. And anyone who tries, you call them an anti immigrant, racist, bigoted xenophobe."

I'm not preventing you from the making the distinction between il/legals. I do think you're anti-immigrant, even regarding legal immigrants. I do think you're a bigot and I think it's quite possible that you are a xenophobe. We'll leave racism for another day. 

I think it's quite possible to have an informed and level-headed opinion in favor of discouraging illegal immigration but I don't recall ever encountering such a view while reading your posts. 

I also think your anger over illegal immigration into this US is overblown concerning the limited impact this activity has on the normal functioning of the United States. 







"I do think you're anti-immigrant, even regarding legal immigrants. I do think you're a bigot and I think it's quite possible that you are a xenophobe. We'll leave racism for another day."



At the risk of being rude... 
 
...Thanks, Captain Obvious.   


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 12:25am

 kurtster wrote:


You are really struggling here. 

"Yes, these American citizens, the small business owners, their families and their employees who have been forced out of business by strict Covid protocols that those coming into the country illegally are not subject to for openers. These are real victims with faces and names. People of all colors and religions who are also American citizens. We citizens activities are restricted by Covid, yet the illegally present non citizens in this country are not."


Detained illegal immigrants are separated from the general US population and do not threaten to infect the general US population with Covid. Such immigrants are treated for Covid as much as US govt. resources allow. They are vaccinated against Covid as well. They are asked about their vaccination history for other diseases as well and are vaccinated for those diseases while detained if the need arises. 

This is CDC policy (which AFAICT ICE violated under Trump). It is the humane and practical thing to do. The current surge of immigrants has overwhelmed US detainment facilities and caused serious overcrowding. Under those conditions, transmission of Covid AND other diseases is a lot easier. Treating and vaccinating immigrants detained in the US helps prevent the spread of infectious diseases in this country. 

Detained immigrants, once released into the general population, are going to face the same Covid-related restrictions that American citizens face. For instance, immigrants and US citizens will have to wear a mask to shop in a grocery store. Illegal immigrants are not puttin' on the Ritz mask-free, Kurt. 


"In San Diego for example, teachers have been given offers to teach detained non citizen children in person while their American citizen regular students sit stuck at home on Zoom because their teachers won't come back to in person teaching in the classroom because they are afraid for their lives of getting infected by Covid."

That's in San Diego—one city. The city offered the option of teaching detained immigrant children in person to volunteers among teachers. The city is not forcing teachers to teach detained children, online or in person. So this awful, awful activity you condemn is being done with the blessing of the city government and the free will of some teachers. This NY Post piece states that 15 teachers were teaching at the San Diego Convention Center. 

A quick googling suggests that the population of kids detained in the San Diego Convention Center was around 700 in late March. I have no idea whether this situation is still going on, but the articles I've glanced at state that the call for volunteers went out when American students were on spring break. 

Not a big deal unless you're a professional victim of Culture Wars. 

"Your position demeans the notion and value of being a citizen of this country. You put non citizens ahead of citizens by your looking the other way and supporting these open borders. You knowingly voted for open borders when you voted for Biden. There was no bait and switch."


I had very little interest in Biden's position on immigration when I voted for him. I'm not sure that issue was on my top-ten list. Biden is not for open borders. Look at all the heat he took for suggesting he'd limit immigration to 15,000 people per year. 

The US is still struggling through a pandemic. 500,000+ Americans have died. (BTW, epidemiologists have estimated that only 100,000 would have died if the Trump administration had worked more quickly and competently to contain Covid.) The problems that Covid present are going to intersect with other American problems, like illegal immigration. The Biden administration and the US states are working through the problems—some new, some just aggravated—that the combination of Covid and a surge of illegal immigration have created. 

What are you proposing the US should do instead, Kurt? Gas the illegals with Zyklon B? Herd them into camps to die on their own? Send them to Mexico? Actually you can't do the last option 'cause Mexico says it's running of room. 


"That is it for the last time. Myself and others have been trying to make this point for since this Covid began. You and others have steadfastly refused to acknowledge this as a legitimate concern the entire time. And persistently continue to ignore this legitimate concern of many, many people."


Frankly, I don't recall seeing your complaints about Covid and illegal immigrants spreading Covid and/or living it up while good 'Muricans hunker down and mask up. Frankly, this strikes me as a new honk for you. 


"You won't even allow the distinction to be made between legal and illegal immigration. And anyone who tries, you call them an anti immigrant, racist, bigoted xenophobe."

I'm not preventing you from the making the distinction between il/legals. I do think you're anti-immigrant, even regarding legal immigrants. I do think you're a bigot and I think it's quite possible that you are a xenophobe. We'll leave racism for another day. 

I think it's quite possible to have an informed and level-headed opinion in favor of discouraging illegal immigration but I don't recall ever encountering such a view while reading your posts. 

I also think your anger over illegal immigration into this US is overblown concerning the limited impact this activity has on the normal functioning of the United States. 





kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 11:07pm

 kcar wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

I have only spoken in terms of citizen and non citizen.  This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens.

You keep saying refugees.  So what you are saying is that everyone coming across our border illegally is a refugee ?  I see.

Continue on without me then.

  

I post this reply while acknowledging the risk that its appearance might detain you here...

"This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens."

Ah yes, The Victims Club. Kurtster, president of a local chapter. 

Maybe I'm blissfully ignorant but I don't see that immigrants/refugees/illegals/whathaveyous at our borders are getting the long end of the stick when compared to American citizens. We've talked about immigrants' crime rates in the US, payments of US taxes, presence in job markets, draws upon social services, etc. I can't recall seeing evidence that immigrants are a significant and lasting drain on the US. I can't recall seeing evidence posted by you that supports your long/short end of the stick claims. 

You're talking about a handful of people relative to a population of around 330 million Americans. Illegal immigrants in the US accounted for around 4% of the general population in 2007. Illegal immigrants in the US dropped to around 3.2% of the population since. 

https://www.brookings.edu/poli...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

How are American citizens being deprived by the presence of such a small group?
One final thought: at one point you were complaining that Chuck, Nancy and the Blue Meanies were tolerating/welcoming immigration from Central and South America because it would increase the number of people voting for Democrats because (your assumption AFAICT, perhaps borrowed from Hannity or Limbaugh) people immigrating from those regions all vote for Democrats. Take a look at how Latinos in FL and TX helped deliver those states to Trump in the last election. Latino and Hispanic voters are not a monolithically blue bloc. 
 
This is the post that I am discussing, and have been all along.
 sirdroseph wrote:

Unsatisfactory answer when you see the conditions and circumstances of the refugees and immigrants at the border where  they came from and the logistics of their travels and protocols.  You cannot tell me that tourist who are almost all upper income (I sure as hell  cannot afford to travel internationally) have the resources and education to be able to properly social distance, be tested, get vaccinated and so forth and are subject to these strict protocols of air travel present anywhere near the danger to the general public as refugees.

...

How would you explain to all of those people that have sacrificed their entire livelihoods and business at the altar of public safety why these refugees should be allowed to freely enter the country in these times.   Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen?   American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it.
 
 

Yes, these American citizens, the small business owners, their families and their employees who have been forced out of business by strict Covid protocols that those coming into the country illegally are not subject to for openers.  These are real victims with faces and names.  People of all colors and religions who are also American citizens.  We citizens activities are restricted by Covid, yet the illegally present non citizens in this country are not.

In San Diego for example, teachers have been given offers to teach detained non citizen children in person while their American citizen regular students sit stuck at home on Zoom because their teachers won't come back to in person teaching in the classroom.  They are afraid for their lives of getting infected by Covid if they return to in person teaching of America children.  Yet they are indeed teaching in person to these migrant children putting them ahead of their actual American citizen students.  There is some kind of not funny going on with these teachers and their unions.

Your position demeans the notion and value of being a citizen of this country.  You put non citizens ahead of citizens by your looking the other way and supporting these open borders.  You knowingly voted for open borders when you voted for Biden.  There was no bait and switch. 

Either Covid is a clear and present danger requiring extreme measures to combat it or it is not.  By taking the open borders position you are saying that Covid is not a concern of yours because open borders undo all of the hard work and sacrifice made by Americans to overcome Covid.  There has been travel restrictions on Americans traveling from one state to another, yet there are no such restrictions in place when it come to those crossing the border illegally.  That is the point that I am addressing. 

That is it for the last time.  Myself and others have been trying to make this point for since this Covid began.  You and others have steadfastly refused to acknowledge this as a legitimate concern the entire time.  And persistently continue to ignore this legitimate concern of many, many people.

You won't even allow the distinction to be made between legal and illegal immigration.  And anyone who tries, you call them an anti immigrant, racist, bigoted xenophobe.

So why bother ?

Nothing more to say.

Bring on Ronald.  It is the least that you can do.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 10:01pm

 kurtster wrote:

I have only spoken in terms of citizen and non citizen.  This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens.

You keep saying refugees.  So what you are saying is that everyone coming across our border illegally is a refugee ?  I see.

Continue on without me then.

  

I post this reply while acknowledging the risk that its appearance might detain you here...

"This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens."

Ah yes, The Victims Club. Kurtster, president of a local chapter. 

Maybe I'm blissfully ignorant but I don't see that immigrants/refugees/illegals/whathaveyous at our borders are getting the long end of the stick when compared to American citizens. We've talked about immigrants' crime rates in the US, payments of US taxes, presence in job markets, draws upon social services, etc. I can't recall seeing evidence that immigrants are a significant and lasting drain on the US. I can't recall seeing evidence posted by you that supports your long/short end of the stick claims. 

You're talking about a handful of people relative to a population of around 330 million Americans. Illegal immigrants in the US accounted for around 4% of the general population in 2007. Illegal immigrants in the US dropped to around 3.2% of the population since. 

https://www.brookings.edu/poli...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

How are American citizens being deprived by the presence of such a small group?


One final thought: at one point you were complaining that Chuck, Nancy and the Blue Meanies were tolerating/welcoming immigration from Central and South America because it would increase the number of people voting for Democrats because (your assumption AFAICT, perhaps borrowed from Hannity or Limbaugh) people immigrating from those regions all vote for Democrats. Take a look at how Latinos in FL and TX helped deliver those states to Trump in the last election. Latino and Hispanic voters are not a monolithically blue bloc. 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 8:39pm

 kcar wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

A rationalization and irrelevant.  Both are equal in their goals, actions and effects. Parallel ending using different motivations.  Both trying to justify the same willful end with their own means.  That is the point and what matters.  Or should matter.


Wow, NO. Not even close. You come up with the strangest notions. 

The refugee surge at our southern border is not greatly disruptive to the functioning of the US government. We can get on top of the logistics of handling this surge, although we do need long-term solutions to this problem. 

Furthermore, the refugees aren't united by a common political purpose. They are trying to find safety and a better life in the US.  Most of them likely want minimal interaction with the federal government. 

The idiots who stormed the Capitol on January 6th posed a direct, if disorganized threat to the functioning of the federal government. They killed and injured people while attempting to wipe out the results of a legitimate election. They sought to kill our political leaders. While the disruption to the federal government was brief, it was intense. 

There are no meaningful lessons to be learned by trying to lump together the refugees at our border with the people who tried to overthrow our government on January 6.
 
I have only spoken in terms of citizen and non citizen.  This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens.

You keep saying refugees.  So what you are saying is that everyone coming across our border illegally is a refugee ?  I see.

Continue on without me then.

  
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 7:36pm

 kcar wrote:

Not a big deal, but you're responding to a post by sirdroseph, not me. 

sirdroseph wrote: 

 "Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen? American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it."


Apologies. Point redirected.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 6:00pm

Seems to me that the thing that is missing in the immigration stoush is that the Democrats have always been in favour of restricting access with borders that are mostly closed. The difference with the stated Republican policy (maybe not the actual policy) is one of degree and one of how much cruelty should be inflicted to maintain acceptable immigrant and refugee levels. The only time I have heard Republicans acknowledge this is when they stated that Obama started the detention centers so they could ignore the vast increase in cruelty and unhealthy conditions under trump.

That does put Biden in an awkward position - he needs to keep the influx low without going to the extremes of trumpism and without explicitly saying that part of the balance is being willing to accept that some illegal immigration will occur. As I said when trump to office, overall the previous policies hit about the right level. Not that they couldn't be refined and improved, but that trump's cure was for what was mostly only a minor problem.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 4:13pm

 kurtster wrote:

A rationalization and irrelevant.  Both are equal in their goals, actions and effects. Parallel ending using different motivations.  Both trying to justify the same willful end with their own means.  That is the point and what matters.  Or should matter.


Wow, NO. Not even close. You come up with the strangest notions. 

The refugee surge at our southern border is not greatly disruptive to the functioning of the US government. We can get on top of the logistics of handling this surge, although we do need long-term solutions to this problem. 

Furthermore, the refugees aren't united by a common political purpose. They are trying to find safety and a better life in the US.  Most of them likely want minimal interaction with the federal government. 

The idiots who stormed the Capitol on January 6th posed a direct, if disorganized threat to the functioning of the federal government. They killed and injured people while attempting to wipe out the results of a legitimate election. They sought to kill our political leaders. While the disruption to the federal government was brief, it was intense. 

There are no meaningful lessons to be learned by trying to lump together the refugees at our border with the people who tried to overthrow our government on January 6.


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 4:02pm

 islander wrote:

How about Lives matter. Borders serve a purpose, but it's not the one you are hoping for.


Not a big deal, but you're responding to a post by sirdroseph, not me. 

sirdroseph wrote: 

 "Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen? American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it."
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 1:58pm

 islander wrote:
 kurtster wrote:


Well if your intent was to compare crowds of citizen's activities with non citizen activities, then the better comparison would be comparing those citizens who stormed the capitol during the "insurrection" and the non citizens who are storming our border.  Both actions disrespect and greatly disrupt our country and its health and safety along with the rule of law and order. 

That would be an apples and apples comparison.


Motivation behind these two movements is quite a bit different, so more like manzanas and the actions of a selfish group of sore losers. 

 
A rationalization and irrelevant.  Both are equal in their goals, actions and effects. Parallel ending using different motivations.  Both trying to justify the same willful end with their own means.  That is the point and what matters.  Or should matter.
islander

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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 12:15pm

 kurtster wrote:

I accept your apology.

Well if your intent was to compare crowds of citizen's activities with non citizen activities, then the better comparison would be comparing those citizens who stormed the capitol during the "insurrection" and the non citizens who are storming our border.  Both actions disrespect and greatly disrupt our country and its health and safety along with the rule of law and order. 

That would be an apples and apples comparison.


Motivation behind these two movements is quite a bit different, so more like manzanas and the actions of a selfish group of sore losers. 

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 11:08am

 islander wrote:
 kurtster wrote:


Ah, there you go again. New old target now that I'm not here for you to kick around. You even used your famous phony moral false equivalency tactic by comparing a legal and lawful assembly of American citizens with those who are neither citizens nor doing something lawful to make your thinly veiled attack appear morally superior to the sincere and honest original thought that you reply to and mock.

Oh and it's Texas not tecas ...


Well aren't you the self centered one today.  The target is as it always has been: comments that don't merit being left on their own without rebuttal. This time it was a bit of concern trolling about Covid spread in big crowds.  Seems that the Texas (genuinely sorry my misspelling bothered you so much, but I was on my phone) Rangers stadium also fit the bill of a large group of people at risk of spreading the disease, so I thought it worthy of bringing up.

 
I accept your apology.

Well if your intent was to compare crowds of citizen's activities with non citizen activities, then the better comparison would be comparing those citizens who stormed the capitol during the "insurrection" and the non citizens who are storming our border.  Both actions disrespect and greatly disrupt our country and its health and safety along with the rule of law and order. 

That would be an apples and apples comparison.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 9:40am

 kcar  Sir D. wrote:

Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen? American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it.




How about Lives matter. Borders serve a purpose, but it's not the one you are hoping for.


Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 8:50am

 sirdroseph wrote:
Unsatisfactory answer when you see the conditions and circumstances of the refugees and immigrants at the border where  they came from and the logistics of their travels and protocols.  You cannot tell me that tourist who are almost all upper income (I sure as hell  cannot afford to travel internationally) have the resources and education to be able to properly social distance, be tested, get vaccinated and so forth and are subject to these strict protocols of air travel present anywhere near the danger to the general public as refugees.   You are a smart person, I don't believe you think there is not a difference intellectually.   How would you explain to all of those people that have sacrificed their entire livelihoods and business at the altar of public safety why these refugees should be allowed to freely enter the country in these times.   Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen?   American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it.


So...you've never been to TJ on a Saturday, then.

Your picture showed a glimpse of the scale of the refugee crisis in the world today. Well, three years ago, but it hasn't gotten any better. I didn't count the people in that column, but it has to be in the thousands, and that's just one tiny corner of the problem. Which points out to me the utter inadequacy of the US response...but I digress.

Before Trump we let in just under 100,000 refugees/year. Biden proposed a cap of 125,000/year, which he seems to be backpedaling on, but let's say that number is real. That's about 342 people per day. To put that in perspective, let's look at some border crossing data.

In 2020 (way, way down from normal due to covid and Trump) the busiest border crossing in the US, San Ysidro (between San Diego and TJ) saw just under 35 million legal border crossings. That's just under 96,000 per day. And no, these are not mostly American tourists, tho I'd bet money those numbers are in the tens of thousands a day. Many of them are not even US citizens, but people who live in Mexico and commute to jobs in the US every day, or Mexican citizens who come to the US to shop or visit relatives or do tourist things. Yes—brown people. Poor people. Get over it.

So anyway that's one border crossing, albeit the busiest in the US and one of the busiest in the world. We can look at one that has mostly white people crossing it—say, Buffalo, NY. 4.5 million/year, or 12,400/day. 

These are numbers compiled by DHS, BTW.

So we can handle 342/day. 40 times that number walk across the border at San Ysidro every day. 18 times that many truck drivers cross at Laredo, TX every day. Even if refugees weren't required to be tested before arriving (they are—almost all of them arrive by air) they would represent an insignificant increase in risk.

Should we start a nativist movement? Count we all the way the f#ck out, but...dude, where you been these last few years? That movement took over a major political party and elected a president. If you need a bandwagon to jump on...here's your sign.



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