kurtster wrote:

At best it is a broken promise... not a lie. 

What Gorbachev started never got enough traction because of a lack of law and order Boris Yeltsin.
Putin provided that, but, as you say, at a great cost to the nation. 

Putin is a 19C anomaly who still has visions of Russian greatness and can't divorce his own private standing from that of his nation. He is an anachronism and I can't wait for him to disappear from the world stage. The irony is that Russia is a great nation and would be so much better off without him.

Well not through the ransom attacks but I think Putin is testing Biden in other ways.

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.

Question to President Biden during a news conference regarding the recent cyber attacks on the Colonial Pipeline and JBS :  Do you think Putin is testing you ?

Biden's answer :  No.

"Where I live... almost all the infections and deaths from Covid in this area came from people travailing back and forth to Mexicali to visit family."

KurtfromLaQuinta, with all due respect, how you determine this? Covid is so prevalent in this country that contact tracing is useless. 

You are really struggling here. 

"Yes, these American citizens, the small business owners, their families and their employees who have been forced out of business by strict Covid protocols that those coming into the country illegally are not subject to for openers. These are real victims with faces and names. People of all colors and religions who are also American citizens. We citizens activities are restricted by Covid, yet the illegally present non citizens in this country are not."


Detained illegal immigrants are separated from the general US population and do not threaten to infect the general US population with Covid. Such immigrants are treated for Covid as much as US govt. resources allow. They are vaccinated against Covid as well. They are asked about their vaccination history for other diseases as well and are vaccinated for those diseases while detained if the need arises. 

This is CDC policy (which AFAICT ICE violated under Trump). It is the humane and practical thing to do. The current surge of immigrants has overwhelmed US detainment facilities and caused serious overcrowding. Under those conditions, transmission of Covid AND other diseases is a lot easier. Treating and vaccinating immigrants detained in the US helps prevent the spread of infectious diseases in this country. 

Detained immigrants, once released into the general population, are going to face the same Covid-related restrictions that American citizens face. For instance, immigrants and US citizens will have to wear a mask to shop in a grocery store. Illegal immigrants are not puttin' on the Ritz mask-free, Kurt. 

"In San Diego for example, teachers have been given offers to teach detained non citizen children in person while their American citizen regular students sit stuck at home on Zoom because their teachers won't come back to in person teaching in the classroom because they are afraid for their lives of getting infected by Covid."

That's in San Diego—one city. The city offered the option of teaching detained immigrant children in person to volunteers among teachers. The city is not forcing teachers to teach detained children, online or in person. So this awful, awful activity you condemn is being done with the blessing of the city government and the free will of some teachers. This NY Post piece states that 15 teachers were teaching at the San Diego Convention Center. 

A quick googling suggests that the population of kids detained in the San Diego Convention Center was around 700 in late March. I have no idea whether this situation is still going on, but the articles I've glanced at state that the call for volunteers went out when American students were on spring break. 

Not a big deal unless you're a professional victim of Culture Wars. 

"Your position demeans the notion and value of being a citizen of this country. You put non citizens ahead of citizens by your looking the other way and supporting these open borders. You knowingly voted for open borders when you voted for Biden. There was no bait and switch."

I had very little interest in Biden's position on immigration when I voted for him. I'm not sure that issue was on my top-ten list. Biden is not for open borders. Look at all the heat he took for suggesting he'd limit immigration to 15,000 people per year. 

The US is still struggling through a pandemic. 500,000+ Americans have died. (BTW, epidemiologists have estimated that only 100,000 would have died if the Trump administration had worked more quickly and competently to contain Covid.) The problems that Covid present are going to intersect with other American problems, like illegal immigration. The Biden administration and the US states are working through the problems—some new, some just aggravated—that the combination of Covid and a surge of illegal immigration have created. 

What are you proposing the US should do instead, Kurt? Gas the illegals with Zyklon B? Herd them into camps to die on their own? Send them to Mexico? Actually you can't do the last option 'cause Mexico says it's running of room. 


"That is it for the last time. Myself and others have been trying to make this point for since this Covid began. You and others have steadfastly refused to acknowledge this as a legitimate concern the entire time. And persistently continue to ignore this legitimate concern of many, many people."


Frankly, I don't recall seeing your complaints about Covid and illegal immigrants spreading Covid and/or living it up while good 'Muricans hunker down and mask up. Frankly, this strikes me as a new honk for you. 


"You won't even allow the distinction to be made between legal and illegal immigration. And anyone who tries, you call them an anti immigrant, racist, bigoted xenophobe."

I'm not preventing you from the making the distinction between il/legals. I do think you're anti-immigrant, even regarding legal immigrants. I do think you're a bigot and I think it's quite possible that you are a xenophobe. We'll leave racism for another day. 

I think it's quite possible to have an informed and level-headed opinion in favor of discouraging illegal immigration but I don't recall ever encountering such a view while reading your posts. 

I also think your anger over illegal immigration into this US is overblown concerning the limited impact this activity has on the normal functioning of the United States. 

 kurtster wrote:
I post this reply while acknowledging the risk that its appearance might detain you here...

"This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens."

Ah yes, The Victims Club. Kurtster, president of a local chapter. 

Maybe I'm blissfully ignorant but I don't see that immigrants/refugees/illegals/whathaveyous at our borders are getting the long end of the stick when compared to American citizens. We've talked about immigrants' crime rates in the US, payments of US taxes, presence in job markets, draws upon social services, etc. I can't recall seeing evidence that immigrants are a significant and lasting drain on the US. I can't recall seeing evidence posted by you that supports your long/short end of the stick claims. 

You're talking about a handful of people relative to a population of around 330 million Americans. Illegal immigrants in the US accounted for around 4% of the general population in 2007. Illegal immigrants in the US dropped to around 3.2% of the population since. 

https://www.brookings.edu/poli...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

How are American citizens being deprived by the presence of such a small group?
One final thought: at one point you were complaining that Chuck, Nancy and the Blue Meanies were tolerating/welcoming immigration from Central and South America because it would increase the number of people voting for Democrats because (your assumption AFAICT, perhaps borrowed from Hannity or Limbaugh) people immigrating from those regions all vote for Democrats. Take a look at how Latinos in FL and TX helped deliver those states to Trump in the last election. Latino and Hispanic voters are not a monolithically blue bloc. 

I have only spoken in terms of citizen and non citizen.  This discussion is (or was) about how American citizens are getting the short end of the stick because of the actions of non citizens.

You keep saying refugees.  So what you are saying is that everyone coming across our border illegally is a refugee ?  I see.

Continue on without me then.

  

 kurtster wrote:

Wow, NO. Not even close. You come up with the strangest notions. 

The refugee surge at our southern border is not greatly disruptive to the functioning of the US government. We can get on top of the logistics of handling this surge, although we do need long-term solutions to this problem. 

Furthermore, the refugees aren't united by a common political purpose. They are trying to find safety and a better life in the US.  Most of them likely want minimal interaction with the federal government. 

The idiots who stormed the Capitol on January 6th posed a direct, if disorganized threat to the functioning of the federal government. They killed and injured people while attempting to wipe out the results of a legitimate election. They sought to kill our political leaders. While the disruption to the federal government was brief, it was intense. 

There are no meaningful lessons to be learned by trying to lump together the refugees at our border with the people who tried to overthrow our government on January 6.

Not a big deal, but you're responding to a post by sirdroseph, not me. 

sirdroseph wrote: 

 "Should we start a movement of American Lives Matter with the full commitment of advocacy and support of all ethnicities, religions, sexuality and gender with the only criteria being an American citizen? American citizens are getting the short stick in all of this no matter how you want to paint it."

A rationalization and irrelevant.  Both are equal in their goals, actions and effects. Parallel ending using different motivations.  Both trying to justify the same willful end with their own means.  That is the point and what matters.  Or should matter.