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R_P

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 3:58pm

 steeler wrote:
What would be the legal authority for such action/remedy?
 
Talk to/look for John Yoo...
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 3:44pm



 kurtster wrote:

Haven't got one.  IIRC it was while watching either a Bloomberg or Fox Business Q & A.  It also centered on building a coalition so that it wasn't just one currency / government that would take this action.  If it was just one or two that did it, there would most likely be a collapse of said currency as well as implications of the ability of the particular government(s) to do any further borrowing.  If a large group of governments were to do this, it would keep their currencies intact and also leave China without an effective retaliation.

Hence the posting of this possible economic action / remedy here in the economix thread and not somewhere else.
 
What would be the legal authority for such action/remedy?

R_P

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 2:23pm

 kurtster wrote:
  I put it out as a possible action being considered, not a certain one.

So we'll soon find out together who will be having weasel for lunch, won't we ?

I have heard that weasel is dish best served cold ...
 
Sounds like fake news (or wishful thinking). Some anonymous countries possibly considering something or other.
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 2:20pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Haven't got one. (...)
 
I suspected as much.

 
 I put it out as a possible action being considered, not a certain one.

So we'll soon find out together who will be having weasel for lunch, won't we ?

I have heard that weasel is dish best served cold ...
R_P

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 2:10pm

 kurtster wrote:
Haven't got one. (...)
 
I suspected as much.

kurtster

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 2:04pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I just posted about an action that was under consideration by some governments

Citation please.
 
Haven't got one.  IIRC it was while watching either a Bloomberg or Fox Business Q & A.  It also centered on building a coalition so that it wasn't just one currency / government that would take this action.  If it was just one or two that did it, there would most likely be a collapse of said currency as well as implications of the ability of the particular government(s) to do any further borrowing.  If a large group of governments were to do this, it would keep their currencies intact and also leave China without an effective retaliation.

Hence the posting of this possible economic action / remedy here in the economix thread and not somewhere else.
black321

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 1:08pm



 R_P wrote:
 black321 wrote:
okay, so it is the economix. i think science already knew enough about the risk  from a novel virus to not take it lightly. if not then, surely now.
 
There are other reasons. You also don't want panic, mass hysteria or (political) unrest in a big population.

 
right, that's obvious. it's not like i'm advocating to call the press because cindy sneezed. but clearly, there is a better way to alert the global leaders, or at least their scientists. 

R_P

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 12:52pm

 black321 wrote:
okay, so it is the economix. i think science already knew enough about the risk  from a novel virus to not take it lightly. if not then, surely now.
 
There are other reasons. You also don't want panic, mass hysteria or (political) unrest in a big population.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 12:47pm

 kurtster wrote:
us and them 
 
yes, Kurt, it makes me livid. Make of that what you will. /out
black321

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 12:37pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 black321 wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 

And any country—US included—would naturally dither and dissemble for some time, trying to get things under control or see if things are going to get out of control before announcing it and bringing instant economic chaos onto themselves.
 

There's fumbling during the early stages of any crisis, as you try to get a handle on things...is that what you mean? Or is it OK for a gov to contain what has been identified as a potential significant risk, e.g a novel virus, for the sake of economics?
 
Okay? It's human nature; "Okay" has nothing to do with it. Knowing that your major trading partners will hammer you will cause any government to hesitate. At least until Science says it really is a concern. A good leader would understand this and at least try to keep the relationship amicable and cooperative. I don't think that was ever considered here.



okay, so it is the economix. i think science already knew enough about the risk  from a novel virus to not take it lightly. if not then, surely now.
ScottFromWyoming

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 12:25pm



 black321 wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 The world would have been so screwed if China hadn't shared the information they did. I'm sure they screwed up in the beginning but it's not like they knew what they were dealing with like, say, USA at the start of their pandemic. Don't forget you have a president who is justifying his lies because he claims to be trying to encourage people.

 

And any country—US included—would naturally dither and dissemble for some time, trying to get things under control or see if things are going to get out of control before announcing it and bringing instant economic chaos onto themselves.
 

There's fumbling during the early stages of any crisis, as you try to get a handle on things...is that what you mean? Or is it OK for a gov to contain what has been identified as a potential significant risk, e.g a novel virus, for the sake of economics?
 
Okay? It's human nature; "Okay" has nothing to do with it. Knowing that your major trading partners will hammer you will cause any government to hesitate. At least until Science says it really is a concern. A good leader would understand this and at least try to keep the relationship amicable and cooperative. I don't think that was ever considered here.

black321

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 12:05pm



 kurtster wrote:
 

kurt, i agree. china mishandled this from the start, and continued to de-emphasize the true impact, including by issuing false numbers and implying the morbidity and mortality was heavily weighed towards the sick and elderly. But, that means the white house....charade you are...bought into and repeated these lies. how often did they say its just like the flu, hits mainly the sick and elderly?  why and for what purpose? the last question is easy to answer, and applies to this thread's subject.
R_P

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 10:00am

 kurtster wrote:
I just posted about an action that was under consideration by some governments

Citation please.
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:45am

 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
Well there are calls to investigate the WHO which has decidedly taken China's side and point of view throughout and has essentially become China's shill.  The WHO immediately condemned Trump's travel ban regarding China in January and a week later, Europe in February.  China, if it was a responsible world citizen, would have immediately restricted its citizens from world travel in an effort to stem the spread as soon as the domestic outbreak began.  They did not.  They had to be shamed into doing so.  Based on this the WHO has lost its credibility.
 
The travel ban on non-US citizens coming from China was announced on January 31. The corresponding ban on flights from much of Europe was announced March 11.

 
I stand corrected.  Does not change the fact that the WHO immediately condemned Trump's travel ban regarding China.
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:43am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

 I knew this was coming from you sooner or later Kurtster and it makes me livid.

What in your highly knowledgeable and well-researched opinion did China not do to warn you about a virus that the world scientific community has known about as a high risk for at least four years?

Fact is your government was so far up its own arse to think it was immune from this novel virus and it sat on its hands downplaying the risk until it blew up in their face. And now to blame the failings of your own government on others is a character failing I would despise in a five year old, let alone the leaders of the free world. 

Sure China may have counted their numbers differently, but they bought the world community precious time to prepare and we should be eternally grateful to them. That your government squandered this opportunity lies solely with them. 
 
So that I just posted about an action that was under consideration by some governments, that makes you livid with me ?  It is not my idea.  It is just something I heard in a discussion that may be coming down the road in the near future.  I posted it only as a place holder.  Makes me wonder why you are so defensive about China.

China did more than count their numbers differently.  They minimized the threat of CV 19 initially saying it was of little more danger than the common flu (which was parroted by the WHO. I have seen time stamped video clips backing up this assertion), even though they knew otherwise.  They were the experts.  They had been studying this particular strain for years, yet misdirected everyone regarding the severity of this virus, until caught in their lies.  By that time, the horse was well out of the barn.

As time passes, we will find out just how much China lied and misdirected the entire world, while putting the Chinese Government's self interests first.  No doubt you will not believe any findings that hold China more than negligent in their initial handling of the outbreak of the virus. You have already made it clear that you take China's word over everyone else's, especially the USA's.

Clearly you want to sweep the origins of this outbreak under the rug to protect China and instead focus on how the international reaction and in particular the USA's reaction to the outbreak went instead.

You are aware that China initially asserted that the virus could not be transmitted by human to human contact which the WHO parroted ?  That is one of the first lies made by China and is responsible for the rest of the world not taking stronger measures from day one.
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:40am



 kurtster wrote:
Well there are calls to investigate the WHO which has decidedly taken China's side and point of view throughout and has essentially become China's shill.  The WHO immediately condemned Trump's travel ban regarding China in January and a week later, Europe in February.  China, if it was a responsible world citizen, would have immediately restricted its citizens from world travel in an effort to stem the spread as soon as the domestic outbreak began.  They did not.  They had to be shamed into doing so.  Based on this the WHO has lost its credibility.
 
The travel ban on non-US citizens coming from China was announced on January 31. The corresponding ban on flights from much of Europe was announced March 11.

black321

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:16am



 kurtster wrote:
Well there are calls to investigate the WHO which has decidedly taken China's side and point of view throughout and has essentially become China's shill.  The WHO immediately condemned Trump's travel ban regarding China in January and a week later, Europe in February.  China, if it was a responsible world citizen, would have immediately restricted its citizens from world travel in an effort to stem the spread as soon as the domestic outbreak began.  They did not.  They had to be shamed into doing so.  Based on this the WHO has lost its credibility.
 

The White House didnt lose any credibility...because there was none to lose.  Ha!
kurtster

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:13am

Well there are calls to investigate the WHO which has decidedly taken China's side and point of view throughout and has essentially become China's shill.  The WHO immediately condemned Trump's travel ban regarding China in January and a week later, Europe in February.  China, if it was a responsible world citizen, would have immediately restricted its citizens from world travel in an effort to stem the spread as soon as the domestic outbreak began.  They did not.  They had to be shamed into doing so.  Based on this the WHO has lost its credibility.
black321

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 9:12am



 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

No, I am not confounding the issues, just pointing out that on the benchmark you chose, the US doesn't perform very well.  just an observation, more for the gallery than for you.

 
OK, got it.

miamizsun

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Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 8:35am



 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

no doubt J.  but you have to pushback on egregious falsehoods otherwise they become established just by the sheer force of repetition.  boring as hell, but hell, someone has to do it. :wave: 
 

oh i agree (i tire of the over-blowviation, i don't find it helpful)

the entire planet has had plenty of warning/signs that this is a potential issue

prep has been waived off time after time by practically every country

even south korea

i think i gleaned an article that at first  their leadership (back in feb) thought this was non-issue as well

i posted a sub-titled interview with their top doc and he had some very solid stuff to say

the bad news of course is that we'll have mountains of political bs shoveled our way

the good news in all of this that science/bio-tech has some seriously awesome tools and talent to pin the proper labels and build solutions

and digitizing dna will continue to open up biology to mind-warping computing power to benefit us in so many ways

ATCGs are the new ones and zeros, the new code so to speak

i think genetic modification is easily one the most important areas of science today, if not the most important

regards
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