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R_P

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 6:25pm

How Trump the populist became Trump the corporate shill
(...) These examples are representative rather than exceptional. Corporate America has captured the Trump administration. Public Citizen's research has found that more than 70% of Trump's picks for top sub-Cabinet jobs have clear corporate ties.

In Trump's Washington, the populism of the campaign has been overtaken by conventional corporate cronyism on a grand scale. After his famous pledge to "drain the swamp," Trump issued a weak executive order allowing former lobbyists to immediately join the administration and then granted waivers to top White House staffers that render the ethics rules largely meaningless.

(...) During the presidential campaign, Trump proclaimed, "Our campaign is about breaking up the special interest monopoly in Washington, D.C."

This claim should have seemed improbable coming from a flamboyant New York real-estate developer who once hawked Angus steaks, but tens of millions of Americans bought into Trump's promise. They were justifiably upset at a government that works for the powerful rather than the people.

But Trump has made a mockery of his pledge, bringing the same corporate lobbyists he denounced into the government. Now, working through their former employees and representatives, giant corporations are designing and carrying out policy to an extent unequaled in American history.


LowPhreak

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 4:02pm

 aflanigan wrote:

You seem to be mostly pointing to NSA as the only possible source of confirmation of Russian efforts to interfere with the election in 2016. If the NSA has followed their charter  (they're not supposed to conduct domestic surveillance, unless it is necessary for their counterintel and protection of communications and information systems (cyber) missions), then any information they would have would likely be incomplete, wouldn't you agree?

ODNI seems to be the entity behind the assertion that they have "high confidence" in concluding the Russians actively sought to interfere with the election. Likely they have intel beyond what the NSA (which hoovers up a lot of raw stuff but mostly focuses on sigintel) which may well be the most conclusive/persuasive.

If you want to hang your skepticism on Binney's op ed, I would first ask Binney why he seems to focus exclusively on the NSA, but doesn't consider other members of the DNI and what they may have found. 

 
No I would not agree, since the NSA or any gov't agency spying on Americans (turning their programs "inward") is illegal and unconstitutional - as Binney, Drake and the others have said countless times but NSA has been doing so for years anyway. That is the opposite of what their mandate has always been.

Binney has said quite a lot about other intel agencies, not just NSA, but NSA is the big dog in the room since it has the data-gathering apparatus that most of them use or rely on. I think some of you here would do well to take a few hours and listen to what he and the other whistleblowers have to say through their various interviews.

It would do more good than wasting hours posting on websites without actual knowledge, only guesses and assumptions, or partisan bickering.


LowPhreak

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 3:54pm

 maryte wrote:
The Centre for Research on Globalization (cited by lowphreak) is a very poor source for anything that rational people might consider factual.

 
Can you show that what's in the links I've posted is not factual? It's easy to cast aspersions without supporting them.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 3:52pm


LowPhreak

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 3:48pm

 kurtster wrote:

Your timing is impeccable.  I do agree with your assessment of Trump farther below.  I knew he was no choir boy.  I knew he was involved with the Mafia, but how do you not use massive amounts of concrete and not get involved with Mafia ?  That did not deter me in making my choice out of the binary one offered.   I do know the worlds of construction and the Mafia, independently for different reasons.  I was at one time a Teamster during the era of the Danny Green bombings here in Cleveland.  I will admit that I actually have some respect for the Mafia, based upon what I know.  

I do know that Trump can direct the FBI to investigate anything he wants and am puzzled as to why he hasn't yet, given all that there is.  But we have just installed a new director, whom I know very little about.  So I have to wait and see on that before I conclude that Trump would hang himself if he directed more far reaching investigations.  That and I am convinced that the FBI has been at the very least politicized and no longer capable of conducting impartial investigations of political figures.

Thanks for your input and now back to Russia, Russia, Russia, already in progress ...

 
Trump used concrete framed designs in order to get the deals he did through the Mob in NY/NJ, when very few high-rises today are built that way (they use steel framing). If you can say that you have respect for organized crime and are OK with those like Trump who've consorted with them being in high offices of gov't, then really kurtster there's not much else to say.

Here's something you might find interesting: 21 Questions For Donald Trump

On the new FBI director Mueller, there's nothing to "wait and see" about. As I've demonstrated below, he is already disqualified by his impeachable performance in the 9/11 era.


LowPhreak

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 3:40pm

 kcar wrote:


So the NSA and the Mainstream Media (MSM) are running a propaganda campaign. Against Trump. Because they don't want him to be president. Oh wait he already is.

...

"There were only 4 out of 17 agencies that reluctantly agreed with what is actually a NSA leak, and that based on "best conclusions", not verifiable evidence, and after a charade was presented that ALL agencies agreed, ("widespread consensus") when they actually did not. "

Do you have a link or links to back the claims you make here?

 

"Do you have a link or links to back the claims you make here?"

Yes I do, and are easily found had you spent a few seconds on a search. First one I came to:

“Read the declassified report by the intelligence community that came out in early January,” said Clinton. “Seventeen agencies, all in agreement – which I know from my experience as a senator and secretary of state is hard to get – they concluded with ‘high confidence’ that the Russians ran an extensive information war against my campaign to influence voters in the election.”

Verdict: False

While the intelligence report she mentions does express ‘high confidence’ that Russia sought to undermine her campaign, it only represents the views of three agencies – the FBI, CIA and NSA. Clinton incorrectly claims this report shows consensus among 17 intelligence agencies.

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper himself appeared in front of Congress and explicitly pushed back on the idea that “17 intelligence agencies agreed,” stating flatly that it was just three.



Yes Dorothy, the NSA, CIA, and other intel agencies work in cahoots with the MSM to sway public opinion and use disinformation/misinformation for nefarious ends. We're not in Kansas anymore. This has been known with any number of examples of it over the decades, exposed by the Church Committee in the 1970s, by FOIA document releases, etc.

Operations Northwoods, Mockingbird, Gladio, Paperclip, Project MKUltra, Gulf of Tonkin incident... The list goes on and on. Here are 42 ADMITTED False Flag Attacks.

The NSA's "abilities and resources" have already been exposed by whistleblowers as I've listed. Saying, "It may simply be that the NSA does have a clear understanding of what happened to the DNC servers and Podesta's emails..." is like saying, "The dog ate my homework."

This is the same BS you've displayed elsewhere when you've attempted to defend the Dems/Clintons or the general establishment propaganda. As I said earlier, if the info given is not enough then nothing would convince you.

Not going to waste further time & effort with anyone who endlessly repeats partisan denials in the face of hard evidence and facts.



islander

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 12:46pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Surely!

 

ScottFromWyoming

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 12:41pm

 islander wrote:
 

Surely Fox news had their facts straight and verified the existence of a plan. It was pretty well established by this point that Trump had a knack for stretching the truth, so it would have been prudent to verify before putting your journalistic integrity on the line...
 
Surely!
islander

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 12:20pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

And they had 8 years to work out a solution already but the dog ate their homework, I guess.

 
They are just waiting for the right moment:

Fox News, January 16,2017

The president-elect insisted that his plan for replacing the Affordable Healthcare Act is all but finished, and added that care would have “lower numbers, much lower deductibles.” He went as far to say that he’s ready to reveal it alongside Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan.

“It’s very much formulated down to the final strokes. We haven’t put it in quite yet, but we’re going to be doing it soon,” Trump said during the interview with the paper.

He added that he’s still waiting for Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., to be confirmed as his secretary for health and human services. A hearing for his confirmation has yet to be scheduled.

...

Trump insists that the new law will be better despite worries from Congress and the possibility of putting 20 million Americans at risk of losing their health coverage.

“We’re going to have insurance for everybody. There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”



  

Surely Fox news had their facts straight and verified the existence of a plan. It was pretty well established by this point that Trump had a knack for stretching the truth, so it would have been prudent to verify before putting your journalistic integrity on the line...

aflanigan

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 12:13pm

 LowPhreak wrote:

I'll give a couple of examples of former intel people that probably know a helluva lot more about this than anyone on RP forums. I say this as a former U.S. Army Intel Analyst myself, which I left in 1981. (BTW, spare me the mindless "thank you for your service" jingoism. It doesn't mean a thing in this day of American rogue state antics and war crimes that the people regurgitating such faux-patriotism have ignored.)

You want to "support our troops"? Number One: get them to hell out of the Middle East conflicts. 16 years is quite enough. Next, rehire the 50,000 personnel that the VA is short on, and fund it properly — take it out of the Pentagon budget, and stop giving money to Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and KBR, et al. Only then will those slogans mean a goddamned thing.

First, I'd like to agree with what Craig Murray the former Brit intel officer and ambassador said,

"I do not support Donald Trump. I do support truth. There is much about Trump that I dislike intensely. Neither do I support the neo-liberal political establishment in the USA. The latter’s control of the mainstream media, and cunning manipulation of identity politics, seeks to portray the neo-liberal establishment as the heroes of decent values against Trump. Sadly, the idea that the neo-liberal establishment embodies decent values is completely untrue."

...that that is also my position. Trump is a disgusting embarrassment to the U.S. and IMO is only in this for his and his family's enrichment and aggrandizement. He's a huckster from NY that has been in bed with the Mafia for decades, and has a long record of ne'er do well there (which itself begs the question of why didn't the MSM 'swiftboat' him on that during the campaign?). The Clintons and establishment Democrats are no better, both are corrupt to the core. BOTH parties are merely two sides of the same oligarchy, and this whole kerfluffle is but an internecine fight between them for ultimate control of the direction of U.S. hegemony.

The intel agencies have not publicly shared any credible and verifiable evidence one way or the other about Russian hacking of the Democratic email. That is a fact.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/07/russiagate-stink-without-secret.html

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/us-insiders-not-russia-leaked-clinton-emails.html

There are appropriate links in both of those articles. However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails. The man who created the NSA’s global electronic data-gathering system, William Binney, told Washington’s Blog that if the DNC and Podesta were hacked, the NSA would already have the data in their files proving who did it.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/tell-russia-hacked-election.html

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/creator-nsas-global-surveillance-system-calls-b-s-russian-hacking-report.html

Therefore, if Trump is innocent on this issue, his best chance at avoiding impeachment is order the NSA to declassify its data on the “hacking” of the DNC’s servers and Podesta emails. His enemies would be much better off pursuing the Qatar issue as I mentioned a couple of pages ago, as I certainly would if I were in a position to make it front and center.

What's upsetting is that otherwise sensible people are buying this whole MSM propaganda campaign - without any critical thinking or due investigation - while nearly ignoring other more important problems facing the country.


 
You seem to be mostly pointing to NSA as the only possible source of confirmation of Russian efforts to interfere with the election in 2016. If the NSA has followed their charter  (they're not supposed to conduct domestic surveillance, unless it is necessary for their counterintel and protection of communications and information systems (cyber) missions), then any information they would have would likely be incomplete, wouldn't you agree?

ODNI seems to be the entity behind the assertion that they have "high confidence" in concluding the Russians actively sought to interfere with the election. Likely they have intel beyond what the NSA (which hoovers up a lot of raw stuff but mostly focuses on sigintel) which may well be the most conclusive/persuasive.

If you want to hang your skepticism on Binney's op ed, I would first ask Binney why he seems to focus exclusively on the NSA, but doesn't consider other members of the DNI and what they may have found. 
maryte

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 12:08pm

 kurtster wrote:

Anything objective sticks to the facts, but anything subjective has feelings. Objective and subjective are opposites. 

So it's how we feel about a law that makes it legitimate or illegitimate ?

We just went through 8 years of your definition ...

 

You've obviously never experienced the jury trial process in this country. Twelve people, vetted for bias, all hear the same facts of the case. They apply relevant laws to those facts.  But they don't always come to the same conclusions.  Humans cannot help but put a subjective spin on facts.  I can't.  YOU can't. It's part of being human.

A law is, by definition, legitimate.  Our feelings about that law do not have anything to do with its legitimacy. 

And I have no fucking clue what you're implying with your last sentence, but I suspect you think you're being clever somehow.
black321

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:31am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

And they had 8 years to work out a solution already but the dog ate their homework, I guess.

 
but, they dont want a solution/healthcare plan.
black321

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:30am

 pigtail wrote:

I can't predict what this administration will or won't do.  Who knew we would ever have such an incompetent asshat as our president?  I'm done telling myself that things will never happen based on logical rational.  These people in power and their supporters are neither logical or reasonable. This entire administration is based on hate and only looking out for #1.  Anyone or anything remotely socially beneficial is seen as some sort of enemy.  It's crazy but true.

 
The course i suggested isnt necessarily "better" than a repeal.  As for the admin being "based on hate"...i dont think that is entirely accurate, or helpful for any argument against them.
sirdroseph

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:25am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

And they had 8 years to work out a solution already but the dog ate their homework, I guess.

 




In all fairness my dog ate my stepsons paycheck last week. I am not saying they are related, but you don't know my dog.
ScottFromWyoming

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:18am

 pigtail wrote:

2 years?  {#Lol}  Then what happens? Repeal and replace would mean 2 years.  That's reasonable and humane.  Repeal alone is indefinite.

 
And they had 8 years to work out a solution already but the dog ate their homework, I guess.
pigtail

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:07am

 kurtster wrote:

Clean repeal as the Bill is written keeps the ACA in place for two years after passage allowing for a solution to be worked out.  It does not end the ACA abruptly.

 
2 years?  {#Lol}  Then what happens? Repeal and replace would mean 2 years.  That's reasonable and humane.  Repeal alone is indefinite.
VV

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 11:01am

 VV wrote:

You lost all your credibility many posts ago but certainly cemented it with the most recent few. No proof that Russia hacked DNC? What branch of government intelligence are/were you employed by that led you to this alternate conclusion?
 
I actually somewhat admired your loyalty up until the point that it crossed over to blind loyalty. As I said before, it's very tough defending the indefensible but you give it a game try.
 
Just wondering where you stand on O.J... guilty or innocent?
9/11... a government plot?
 
The inmates are running the asylum there is no denying it. All of us should be worried. 
 
On a separate note I can't stop laughing when Trump continues to point the finger at the Obama administration for what he feels were their transgressions. The bottom line is that he is in charge and he needs to take the heat for things going south during his administration instead of trying to blame others. Heck why stop at Obama? Let's just list all the shortcomings of the administrations of the last 5 or 6 presidents. Where will that get us? I'm willing to bet that Trump has never heard of Truman's famous line "The buck stops here". 
 
Trump's likely response would be: Who's Truman?

 
Not to toot my own horn.... 
 
...well ya... OK, I'm tooting! 
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/politics/trump-the-buck-stops-elsewhere/index.html
 
Love these lines at the end of the article.
 
Trump's comments aren't just breaking with his predecessors, either. He is breaking with himself.

"Entrepreneurs: Everything starts with you. Realize that you're in charge. Whatever happens, you're responsible," Trump tweeted in 2015.

Trump gave his vision of leadership in 2013 with this tweet: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible."
 
It's clear that Trump will always have a different standard for himself as opposed to everyone else. Or, he simply doesn't have any standards.  



kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 10:59am

 pigtail wrote:

What is clean repeal?  Do you mean that like most republicans repeal the ACA without replacement?  Why would anyone consider that a good idea?  Is your healthcare important to you?

 
Clean repeal as the Bill is written keeps the ACA in place for two years after passage allowing for a solution to be worked out.  It does not end the ACA abruptly.
kurtster

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 10:37am

 maryte wrote:

"Legitimate" - according to the law - is not objective.  If it were, we wouldn't need lawyers, juries, etc. to interpret the law. It is *very* subjective.

 
Anything objective sticks to the facts, but anything subjective has feelings. Objective and subjective are opposites. 

So it's how we feel about a law that makes it legitimate or illegitimate ?

We just went through 8 years of your definition ...


pigtail

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Posted: Jul 19, 2017 - 10:24am

 black321 wrote:

they are not going to do that.  they will just keep it in limbo, making it impossible for ACA to work as planned, and hoping to leave the blame with the democrats. 

 
I can't predict what this administration will or won't do.  Who knew we would ever have such an incompetent asshat as our president?  I'm done telling myself that things will never happen based on logical rational.  These people in power and their supporters are neither logical or reasonable. This entire administration is based on hate and only looking out for #1.  Anyone or anything remotely socially beneficial is seen as some sort of enemy.  It's crazy but true.


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