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Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2021 - 10:49am

 kurtster wrote:
I did preface that post with it was incomplete and not really ready for submit. More on the last later on, if still necessary. Its actually a key point if you stop to take a look at how he can actually gain anything in an "insurrection". What is the end game ? How does it work ? You take Congress and then what happens ?

I think we can agree that, like your post, the plan was half baked.

Trump seems to be so delusional that he actually believed the talking points being spread by his dead-end partisans—that he actually won the election. For all we know maybe he had been reading Q-drops on 8chan and was hoping for the Storm where Nancy Pelosi gets arrested and he rides a giant eagle to the inaugural parade, accompanied by Jesus and JFK Jr.

This a guy who seriously offered to buy Greenland and promised Mexico would pay for a border wall. Did he think sending a mob to intimidate congress would actually work, that enough legislators would decide on the spot to disregard what the voters sent them there to do and toss out the results of an election? That the country would be governable after that?

Maybe. Hard to tell. But he still isn't in touch with reality, still makes the same claims. Maybe it was all a shuck, like most of his career—publicity for the reality tv show that is his life. Maybe he just says things because they feel good at the time or because no one around him dares contradict him or because what the hell, maybe it'll work.

You're assuming he has an end game. I'm not. I think he's just surfing the wave of the moment, grifting the gullible, assuming that his celebrity and powerful connections will carry the day and the hype will manifest itself into reality by positive thinking. It's worked for him before, except when it hasn't.

This time it didn't, and it baffles me that you (like many of his fans) don't feel utterly betrayed and ashamed.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 17, 2021 - 9:14am

 oldviolin wrote:

One might blithely assume. 
{#Wink}
 

LOL!  

Perhaps I am just getting caught up in the 'narrative' and Donnie, Jr. is much smarter and more competent than most are willing to give him credit.

Trying to keep an open mind here.  To such possibilities as Nancy Pelosi secretly orchestrated the January 6th attacks on Congress.

Or the very real possibility that the enemies of the USA feeling nothing but love for......   kurtster.      

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2021 - 6:16am

 kurtster wrote:
Bottom line is Pelosi allowed this riot to happen

Kurt...this is what's so frustrating.  You are so deep in the Right-wing conspiracy BS that you can't even maintain a reasonable sense of skepticism.  Do you really believe Pelosi is in charge of the Capitol Police?  Does that sound like something she'd be responsible for?

It's hard to maintain a reasonable sense of doubt when the Right news outlets continue to reinforce the lies.  Just this week on Hannity....to Mark Meadows:

“Don’t forget, President Trump requested increased National Guard
support in the days leading up to January 6. The request was rejected —
by Pelosi, by congressional leaders, including requests, by the way,
from the Capitol Police chief.”


Meadows response:

“What we also know is that President Trump wanted to make sure that
the people that came, that there was a safe environment for that kind of
assembly. And I’ve said that publicly before — the 10,000 National
Guard troops that he wanted to make sure that everything was safe and
secure. … Obviously having those National Guards available, actually the
reason they were able to respond when they did, was because President
Trump had actually put them on alert.”


That is all 100% BS.  A total fabrication. 

The FACTS:

On the day before the Jan. 6 rally, Trump appears to have mentioned 10,000 National Guard troops at a White House meeting on an unrelated matter.  Contrary to his statement, he did not make a request or any sort of order to dispatch the troops. Otherwise, his comment would not have been regarded as typical Trump hype. Presumably, if he had issued an order,
he would have followed up to make sure it was carried out.

Trump goes further afield when he claims that his number was raised with the Capitol Police and that Pelosi, in “a big mistake,” rejected the offer of so many troops. That’s just fantasy.

Like many of Trump’s falsehoods, there’s a seed of reality here. But then the former president nurtures it into a bush of fictions as part of his continuing effort to evade responsibility for how his own actions led to the Capitol Hill riot.

C'mon Kurt...take a few seconds to think about this stuff before you just repost what you find on Google.  

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 17, 2021 - 2:22am

 kurtster wrote:

What I understand about that is that between the Trump administration and the CHP, there were at least 6 requests for the National Guard days in advance. These requests were denied by Speaker Pelosi, who is directly in charge in charge of Capitol Hill security. Not to mention requests made day of and during the riot. The Pentagon had nothing at all to do with it.

Apparently you don't understand much at all.

Nancy Pelosi wasn't ‘in charge’ of Capitol Police on Jan. 6


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 11:13pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
First...congratulations on the anniversary! It's harder than it looks.  kurtster wrote:
Further more, how exactly would Trump communicate directly with his army of insurrectionists to immediately stand down and abandon the overthrow of the government ? Oh that's right. Trump was directly running the whole thing from the beginning anyway and was in complete control of the million insurrectionists ... who he was telling to overthrow his own government. They were all watching their private Trump channel taking orders while the insurrection was underway. Yep. We also all know that several million people in a very small area all on their cell phones at the same time will have absolutely no impact on how calls go through or don't go through. Yep. Case closed.

Funny, Donald Trump Jr. got thru. Some steps that might have been taken:
Let's say you are the president and you see your supporters rioting at the capitol. You:
a. Watch the whole thing on TV,  egging them on via twitter.
b. Heroically arrive at the capitol, bullhorn in hand, and tell them to stop.
c. Ask someone on staff if there's anything you could do to stop it. Like, say, authorizing use of the National Guard, which the toadies you've put in place in the Pentagon are stalling.
Oh and can someone tell me how it benefits in overthrowing yourself ?

Ummm...what? Seriously, what are you even talking about? He was trying to prevent a change of government which would put him out of power. Are you so delusional that this talking point makes sense to you?
 
I'll take C right now.  What I understand about that is that between the Trump administration and the CHP, there were at least 6 requests for the National Guard days in advance.  These requests were denied by Speaker Pelosi, who is directly in charge in charge of Capitol Hill security.  Not to mention requests made day of and during the riot.  The Pentagon had nothing at all to do with it.

Bottom line is Pelosi allowed this riot to happen.  No one is asking her or talking about her role in this very much.

And it certainly doesn't seem to matter much to anyone still here, either.

I did preface that post with it was incomplete and not really ready for submit.  More on the last later on, if still necessary.  Its actually a key point if you stop to take a look at how he can actually gain anything in an "insurrection".  What is the end game ? How does it work ?  You take Congress and then what happens ?  
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 10:07am

 westslope wrote:
 Lazy8 wrote:

..... Funny, Donald Trump Jr. got thru.    ......



Talk about lowering the bar for basic competence.
 
One might blithely assume. {#Wink} 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 8:58am

 Lazy8 wrote:

..... Funny, Donald Trump Jr. got thru.    ......



Talk about lowering the bar for basic competence.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 8:14am

First...congratulations on the anniversary! It's harder than it looks.

 kurtster wrote:
Further more, how exactly would Trump communicate directly with his army of insurrectionists to immediately stand down and abandon the overthrow of the government ?

Oh that's right. Trump was directly running the whole thing from the beginning anyway and was in complete control of the million insurrectionists ... who he was telling to overthrow his own government. They were all watching their private Trump channel taking orders while the insurrection was underway. Yep.

We also all know that several million people in a very small area all on their cell phones at the same time will have absolutely no impact on how calls go through or don't go through.

Yep. Case closed.

Funny, Donald Trump Jr. got thru.

Some steps that might have been taken:
Let's say you are the president and you see your supporters rioting at the capitol. You:
a. Watch the whole thing on TV,  egging them on via twitter.
b. Heroically arrive at the capitol, bullhorn in hand, and tell them to stop.
c. Ask someone on staff if there's anything you could do to stop it. Like, say, authorizing use of the National Guard, which the toadies you've put in place in the Pentagon are stalling.

Oh and can someone tell me how it benefits in overthrowing yourself ?

Ummm...what? Seriously, what are you even talking about? He was trying to prevent a change of government which would put him out of power. Are you so delusional that this talking point makes sense to you?


Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 6:12am

 kurtster wrote:

I stand corrected.  Thought they already were cancelled.


Nah, it was shortly after - well, as a result of the Jan. 6 events.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 6:04am

 Proclivities wrote:
 
Trump's Twitter account was suspended due to Tweets he posted on Jan. 8 - tweets which violated their "Glorification of Violence" policy.  He still had access to Twitter and Facebook on Jan. 6: his Facebook account was blocked Jan. 7. 

 
I stand corrected.  Thought they already were cancelled.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 5:23am

 Proclivities wrote:

Trump's Twitter account was suspended due to Tweets he posted on Jan. 8 - tweets which violated their "Glorification of Violence" policy.  He still had access to Twitter and Facebook on Jan. 6: his Facebook account was blocked Jan. 7.

1:10 PM - as Trump finishes up speech, rioters begin scuffling with Capital Police.

2:11 PM - protestors are seen scaling the walls of the Capital 

2:24 PM Trump tweets,

“Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”

2:44 PM - Shots fired in the House chamber

....almost 2 hours later... 4:20 PM ... A real tour de force of leadership here...
CNN has its issues but listen to the commentator in the minute after the video ends talk about how Trump, Kurt, and millions of others would whitewash the events of the day.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 4:15am

 kurtster wrote:

Thanks for the congrats. Like to have another 20 more.

 
Yep, twitter or FB would have got the message out real fast.  If he or anyone else in his circle had an account they could still use ... then again many of his followers had their accounts cancelled, too.  Then and still now.

Oh and the idea of Trump physically going down there with a bull horn (as suggested) would have likely resulted with a bullet in his head.  Kinda a non starter.

That's all I got.  Just clearing the inbox.

Trump's Twitter account was suspended due to Tweets he posted on Jan. 8 - tweets which violated their "Glorification of Violence" policy.  He still had access to Twitter and Facebook on Jan. 6: his Facebook account was blocked Jan. 7. 




NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 3:01am

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, you live in a country where you believe the system is rigged against you and, no matter what you do, you are going to lose each and every election (in future). 

What is going to be your response? Will you recognize the authority of the in-your-view illegitimately elected government? If not, how will you change the situation? How will you restore legitimacy to the election process?

Will your response be destructive or constructive? Will it be exclusive or inclusive? Democratic or authoritarian?  Things to ponder. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 10:03pm

Thanks for the congrats. Like to have another 20 more.

westslope wrote:
 kurtster wrote:


Further more, how exactly would Trump communicate directly with his army of insurrectionists to immediately stand down and abandon the overthrow of the government ?
....


Easy.  Through social media.  

It is a new 'thang' of the 21st century.   Apparently Trump is very familiar with it.
 
Yep, twitter or FB would have got the message out real fast.  If he or anyone else in his circle had an account they could still use ... then again many of his followers had their accounts cancelled, too.  Then and still now.

Oh and the idea of Trump physically going down there with a bull horn (as suggested) would have likely resulted with a bullet in his head.  Kinda a non starter.

That's all I got.  Just clearing the inbox.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 10:38am

 westslope wrote:
 kurtster wrote:


Oh and its my 20th wedding anniversary today. My plate is full.



Congrats!  
 
+1
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 9:33am

 kurtster wrote:


Congrats on the anniversary!

Trump was not intervening (purposefully allowing, it seems) in the impending overthrow of the proper execution of the election process. 
The result would be that he'd remain in office. 

That's not "overthrowing yourself," but overthrowing the Constitutional process that elects someone that's not him.

That is, by definition, sedition. And, no matter what party you belong to, it's reprehensible and deserves to be called out and punished.

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 9:26am

 kurtster wrote:


Oh and its my 20th wedding anniversary today. My plate is full.



Congrats!  
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 9:25am

 kurtster wrote:


Further more, how exactly would Trump communicate directly with his army of insurrectionists to immediately stand down and abandon the overthrow of the government ?
....


Easy.  Through social media.  

It is a new 'thang' of the 21st century.   Apparently Trump is very familiar with it.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 9:23am

 kurtster wrote:

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am now working 5 days a week, off wed and sat, instead of what used to be a 3 day block of H, F, S followed by a 4 day weekend. I have had to make significant adjustments in order to keep the balls in the air. I'm 69 years old, working my fucking ass off. The wife has double walking pneumonia and my 94 year
old mom has shingles on her face to go along with her RA which is nearly as painful. I'm the one keeping all of this going.

In all seriousness...I get it.  This place is a playground, and you got a lot of shit going on.  I'm poking you for fun...and you're dealing with real-life BS.  Your priorities are correctly focused.  We're aligned on this.  Apologies for the harassment.

Regarding the insurrection.  You're right, there is no good way for anyone to communicate with that size mob, but that doesn't mean you don't try.  EVERYONE was telling him to do something...and he didn't.  Even the Fox hosts who would later defend his inaction were telling him to act.  Instead, he waited 3 hours and asked them to leave...letting them know he loved them.  In the end, he used the method you questioned, and the people went home.

If Trump had shown up at the capital and said to the crowd "go home"..."stop it"...would they have listened?  You know they would have, and the reason he didn't is that he wanted one final attempt to steal an election he clearly lost. 

Maybe he couldn't have stopped it.  We'll never know because, in the hours of unrest at the capital, he did nothing.  And yet still, you somehow see him as the guy who can save America? 

Seriously...good luck with your mother. 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 8:41am

 rgio wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
 

Do you ever tire of concession?  I appreciate you've learned to never admit defeat (rule #1 in the MAGA field guide), but I commend you on your ability to just walk away when asked to explain the particulars, and then re-energizing to spew far-Right propaganda another day.  The stamina is impressive.
 
No, not really.  Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am now working 5 days a week, off wed and sat, instead of what used to be a 3 day block of H, F, S followed by a 4 day weekend. I have had to make significant adjustments in order to keep the balls in the air.  I'm 69 years old, working my fucking ass off.  The wife has double walking pneumonia and my 94 year old mom has shingles on her face to go along with her RA which is nearly as painful.  I'm the one keeping all of this going.

I'm not afraid of serious discussions.  I'm old, cranky and tired.  So take a number and wait, or get over it.

I am also trying to finish a serious music project right now.  I have to play records everyday whether I want to or not, just to be able to return junk within a 30 day window.  And a whole bunch of other stuff.  Oh and its my 20th wedding anniversary today.  My plate is full.

Tell you what, just because you're special, here is a reply I have had parked for a couple of days that isn't really finished but I'll post it just to keep you happy.  It kinda of addresses your question 3 regarding the phony insurrection you all keep talking about.
  Chew on this for awhile.

 Lazy8 wrote:
 steeler wrote:
Those texts are damning.

Assuming the messages ever got thru, sure. But if they didn't...that's damning too.

Of course the famously Fox-addicted president undoubtedly watched the whole thing going down live on tv, so it can't be said that he wasn't aware of what was going on. So...sure. But he was already sliding down the banister thru the 45th circle of hell whooping and hollering. Not sure what all this tells us that we didn't already know, other than reflecting slightly less-poorly on some characters I don't have much respect for.
 
Further more, how exactly would Trump communicate directly with his army of insurrectionists to immediately stand down and abandon the overthrow of the government ?

Oh that's right.  Trump was directly running the whole thing from the beginning anyway and was in complete control of the million insurrectionists ... who he was telling to overthrow his own government.  They were all watching their private Trump channel taking orders while the insurrection was underway.  Yep.

We also all know that several million people in a very small area all on their cell phones at the same time will have absolutely no impact on how calls go through or don't go through.

Yep.  Case closed.

Oh and can someone tell me how it benefits in overthrowing yourself ?
 
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