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Mr. & Mrs Levigne's rejected baby name list... - ScottFromWyoming - Nov 27, 2021 - 7:49pm
 
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R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 4, 2021 - 1:03pm

Fox News’ answer to Biden disavowing lockdowns: Just straight-up lie about it
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 3, 2021 - 11:15pm

 kurtster wrote:
A) A conflation. Vaccines are not therapies. Therapies are treatments post infection, not before. A huge error on your part. Fauci has done everything in his power to prevent the development of therapies for the resulting Covid 19 infection that comes from the SARS-CoV-2 virus . He has denigrated them and anyone pursuing their use and development. With him it has been vaccines are the only way. Natural immunity is worthless. Therapies are misinformation and quackery.

Hogwarts awards MAGA House ten pedantry points for exposing this YUGE error. It will withhold them until you can substantiate anything else in this paragraph. Go ahead, show us where he said any such thing.

And...which therapies are you referring to? Hydroxychloroquine? Ivermectin? Bleach? UV rays? Or is there some Amway product that's this month's miracle cure?

"everything in his power"...what power is that, exactly? What can his office do besides issue a memo?
B) You speak of the FDA. My understanding is that the only way a drug gets emergency approval by the FDA is if there are no alternative treatments available. Fauci has well known financial interests in vaccines. It is in his financial interest to quash any kind of treatments or therapies of the Covid 19 infection. And via his position, he has done everything possible to do just that. A very apparent conflict of interest. Fauci has been the bottleneck / impediment regarding the development of therapies.

Yes, I speak of the FDA, a federal agency with actual rulemaking and enforcement power. The agency that has the power to prosecute you for shipping a covid test they haven't taken their leisurely time to approve.

If you have some kind of evidence that Fauci has a financial interest in vaccines maybe you should present it. And evidence, btw, is something other people can verify. Go ahead. It's "well-known", right? So produce it.

While you're at it you could show us this astonishing power he has to suppress medicines. Does he oversee the FDA approval process? Does he write regulations? How does he accomplish this nefarious deed? If he's a bottleneck, what's flowing thru him?

He has also lied to Congress regarding his involvement with Gain Of Function research at the Wuhan Lab.

Lying means he would have had to know what he said wasn't true. This is a very detailed article about the controversy by The Intercept, the publication that sued NIH to get the records that everyone else is poring over to find a smoking gun. It definitely contradicts Fauci's testimony, but comes well short of accusing him of lying. You should read it. You won't, but you should.

C) You greatly minimize the impact of Fauci's words and very public advice. The use of authority / force via Public Health concerns using his "advice" has gone as far as overriding the Constitution with illegal mandates of which we are now finally getting some push back as these things are finally moving through the courts.

Yes, good to see at least a few courts recognize that the federal government's power is not infinite. And if Dr. Fauci advocates unconstitutional means to affect public health goals, well, it's a good thing he doesn't have the power to create policy. Or enforce it.

You know why his words have impact? Because he knows what he's talking about. That's damned handy in a situation like this.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:36pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ... Or The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.

What about it would make him Josef Mengele?C) His position does not have statutory authority. He cannot give an order and compel you to follow it. His role is information, specifically to advise the president—a role he has filled for 7 presidents. His word is not law, it's advice. The demonization of this man baffles me. When a new disease emerges it's a mystery to everyone, including the people who are tasked with understanding it and advising people who make policy.

A) They can try and get ahead of it by doing research to understand possible threats or therapies (like MRNA vaccines, a technique 30 years in the making), and this is a huge help.

But the actual disease will still be new and its behavior unknown. That means when an advisor is asked to give his best guess on what to do it is just that—a guess. An educated guess, but a guess. As we learn we revise those guesses.B) That doesn't make the earlier guesses lies. He has said things you didn't want to hear. That doesn't make him wrong, it doesn't make him a nazi war criminal, and it doesn't make him a movie villain. He is visible in ways that, say, the directors of the CDC and the FDA aren't but these agencies have a lot more to do with the conduct of the government than he does, and they bear a lot of the blame for the progress of the disease in the US. The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. The CDC was the bottleneck in early testing to track the disease's progress as it emerged. Fauci is not.
 
A)  A conflation.  Vaccines are not therapies.  Therapies are treatments post infection, not before.  A huge error on your part.  Fauci has done everything in his power to prevent the development of therapies for the resulting Covid 19 infection that comes from the SARS-CoV-2 virus  .  He has denigrated them and anyone pursuing their use and development.  With him it has been vaccines are the only way.  Natural immunity is worthless.  Therapies are misinformation and quackery. 

B) You speak of the FDA.  My understanding is that the only way a drug gets emergency approval by the FDA is if there are no alternative treatments available.  Fauci has well known financial interests in vaccines.  It is in his financial interest to quash any kind of treatments or therapies of the Covid 19 infection.  And via his position, he has done everything possible to do just that.  A very apparent conflict of interest.

Fauci has been the bottleneck / impediment regarding the development of therapies.

He has also lied to Congress regarding his involvement with Gain Of Function research at the Wuhan Lab.

C)  You greatly minimize the impact of Fauci's words and very public advice.  The use of authority / force via Public Health concerns using his "advice" has gone as far as overriding the Constitution with illegal mandates of which we are now finally getting some push back as these things are finally moving through the courts.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 2:58pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

{#Eek}
  /picks chin up off the floor.  You mean the rapid-fire tests, right? We have about 20 stashed here in our pantry. We get them given to us free (government policy) as Nico (nearing 3 years old) is in daycare. But aside from that you can pick up any number you want at the local drugstore, cost about €1.75 a pop.

Health care in the US is a profit-oriented enterprise. That is why we have the best health care in the world! 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 2:51pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I got a 2-pack for $14 at Walmart last week*; apparently Uncle Joe is pushing to make insurance reimburse that cost.

*Charlie tested negative


We picked up a dozen packs or so a month ago, no problem. (Had a wedding coming up and wanted everyone to be comfy.)
They were about $25 for a pair.
Then we made a quick trip to Iceland and they were everywhere for about $3 a test in grocery stores.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 2:47pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 Lazy8 wrote:

The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. 


I got a 2-pack for $14 at Walmart last week*; apparently Uncle Joe is pushing to make insurance reimburse that cost.

*Charlie tested negative
 
{#Eek}  /picks chin up off the floor.  You mean the rapid-fire tests, right? We have about 20 stashed here in our pantry. We get them given to us free (government policy) as Nico (nearing 3 years old) is in daycare. But aside from that you can pick up any number you want at the local drugstore, cost about €1.75 a pop.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 12:10pm

 kcar wrote:


Well put.

My amateur take is that conservative political reaction tends to find a person or people to serve as an evil agent for complex events and the federal government's response to those events. 

People don't fully understand Covid or pandemics and aren't convinced that they need to cooperate with everyone else by wearing masks, socially distancing, getting vaccine shots, etc.

Americans are rarely asked to work together, so public health programs and mandates can come across as threats to individual freedoms. It's much easier to whip people up for political gain if you can personify that threat as an elite politician or unelected bureaucrat. Fauci is a prime example. The GOP demonized Nancy Pelosi as a socialist destroyer of family values and lover of fringe minorities. Hillary Clinton got smeared as a power-hungry monster intent on destroying the working class. Obama was a socialist who hated white people.

All these people got fashioned as symbols and promoters of forces that seemed to threaten normalcy and prosperity—forces like gay rights/BLM, economic globalization, challenges to white male power, federally mandated healthcare,
etc. 

      100% correct

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 11:15am

 Lazy8 wrote:

What about it would make him Josef Mengele?

His position does not have statutory authority. He cannot give an order and compel you to follow it. His role is information, specifically to advise the president—a role he has filled for 7 presidents. His word is not law, it's advice.

The demonization of this man baffles me. When a new disease emerges it's a mystery to everyone, including the people who are tasked with understanding it and advising people who make policy. They can try and get ahead of it by doing research to understand possible threats or therapies (like MRNA vaccines, a technique 30 years in the making), and this is a huge help. But the actual disease will still be new and its behavior unknown. That means when an advisor is asked to give his best guess on what to do it is just that—a guess. An educated guess, but a guess. As we learn we revise those guesses.

That doesn't make the earlier guesses lies.

He has said things you didn't want to hear. That doesn't make him wrong, it doesn't make him a nazi war criminal, and it doesn't make him a movie villain. He is visible in ways that, say, the directors of the CDC and the FDA aren't but these agencies have a lot more to do with the conduct of the government than he does, and they bear a lot of the blame for the progress of the disease in the US. The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. The CDC was the bottleneck in early testing to track the disease's progress as it emerged. Fauci is not.


Well put.

My amateur take is that conservative political reaction tends to find a person or people to serve as an evil agent for complex events and the federal government's response to those events. 

People don't fully understand Covid or pandemics and aren't convinced that they need to cooperate with everyone else by wearing masks, socially distancing, getting vaccine shots, etc.

Americans are rarely asked to work together, so public health programs and mandates can come across as threats to individual freedoms. It's much easier to whip people up for political gain if you can personify that threat as an elite politician or unelected bureaucrat. Fauci is a prime example. The GOP demonized Nancy Pelosi as a socialist destroyer of family values and lover of fringe minorities. Hillary Clinton got smeared as a power-hungry monster intent on destroying the working class. Obama was a socialist who hated white people.

All these people got fashioned as symbols and promoters of forces that seemed to threaten normalcy and prosperity—forces like gay rights/BLM, economic globalization, challenges to white male power, federally mandated healthcare,
etc. 
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 11:10am

 black321 wrote:
 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Read the book, Spillover, by David Quammen and you'll understand just how nearly inevitable it is that a natural origin did or will happen. So the finger-pointing is almost beside the point—a curiosity. We need to get this behind us, learn from it how to prevent the next one, and what to do when our protection fails. 
The next big and murderous human pandemic, the one that kills us in millions, will be caused by a new disease—new to humans, anyway. The bug that's responsible will be strange, unfamiliar, but it won't come from outer space. Odds are that the killer pathogen—most likely a virus—will spill over into humans from a nonhuman animal. (2012)

Yes, and the growing issues with antibiotic resistance.
The virus, and those getting sick can care less if it was from a lab or bat.
But this story is important in terms of the narrative. Are those in charge making decisions based on politics, or even just out of expediency?
 Who knows what's been sleeping under all that ice?

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 10:39am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I got a 2-pack for $14 at Walmart last week*; apparently Uncle Joe is pushing to make insurance reimburse that cost.

*Charlie tested negative

Best I can get is shipping one in. Local Walgreens and Walmart have no stock. My insurance company wants to ship me one but it's the mail-it-off-for-PCR kind.

The point is these would have been available over a year ago had it not been for the FDA. They could be as common as N95 masks now.

*Good news on the Charlie front!
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 9:09am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Read the book, Spillover, by David Quammen and you'll understand just how nearly inevitable it is that a natural origin did or will happen. So the finger-pointing is almost beside the point—a curiosity. We need to get this behind us, learn from it how to prevent the next one, and what to do when our protection fails. 
The next big and murderous human pandemic, the one that kills us in millions, will be caused by a new disease—new to humans, anyway. The bug that's responsible will be strange, unfamiliar, but it won't come from outer space. Odds are that the killer pathogen—most likely a virus—will spill over into humans from a nonhuman animal. (2012)


Yes, and the growing issues with antibiotic resistance.
The virus, and those getting sick can care less if it was from a lab or bat.
But this story is important in terms of the narrative. Are those in charge making decisions based on politics, or even just out of expediency?


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:55am

 Lazy8 wrote:

The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. 


I got a 2-pack for $14 at Walmart last week*; apparently Uncle Joe is pushing to make insurance reimburse that cost.

*Charlie tested negative
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:53am

 black321 wrote:


As for Fauci, while not jumping 100% on the natural origin theory, he did lean heavily one way:




Read the book, Spillover, by David Quammen and you'll understand just how nearly inevitable it is that a natural origin did or will happen. So the finger-pointing is almost beside the point—a curiosity. We need to get this behind us, learn from it how to prevent the next one, and what to do when our protection fails. 
The next big and murderous human pandemic, the one that kills us in millions, will be caused by a new disease—new to humans, anyway. The bug that's responsible will be strange, unfamiliar, but it won't come from outer space. Odds are that the killer pathogen—most likely a virus—will spill over into humans from a nonhuman animal. (2012)

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:49am

 kurtster wrote:
Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.

What about it would make him Josef Mengele?

His position does not have statutory authority. He cannot give an order and compel you to follow it. His role is information, specifically to advise the president—a role he has filled for 7 presidents. His word is not law, it's advice.

The demonization of this man baffles me. When a new disease emerges it's a mystery to everyone, including the people who are tasked with understanding it and advising people who make policy. They can try and get ahead of it by doing research to understand possible threats or therapies (like MRNA vaccines, a technique 30 years in the making), and this is a huge help. But the actual disease will still be new and its behavior unknown. That means when an advisor is asked to give his best guess on what to do it is just that—a guess. An educated guess, but a guess. As we learn we revise those guesses.

That doesn't make the earlier guesses lies.

He has said things you didn't want to hear. That doesn't make him wrong, it doesn't make him a nazi war criminal, and it doesn't make him a movie villain. He is visible in ways that, say, the directors of the CDC and the FDA aren't but these agencies have a lot more to do with the conduct of the government than he does, and they bear a lot of the blame for the progress of the disease in the US. The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. The CDC was the bottleneck in early testing to track the disease's progress as it emerged. Fauci is not.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:13am

 kurtster wrote:

I feel pretty confident that it was a lab leak.

Besides all of the various articles I have seen on the subject, I have also applied kurtster logic and common sense in coming to my conclusion.

If ... if it was natural, China, by now would have gone out of its way to prove that it was.  Since China has done everything possible to obfuscate, deter and change the subject when mentioned of its origin only one conclusion can be made. 

So until proven otherwise, I conclude it was man made in the Wuhan Lab and got loose somehow.

Feel free to prove otherwise.  I will listen with an open mind.


We all have opinions...that's fine.
But I also hope we are all humble enough to admit what we don't know.
I don't know, but also believe it could have been a lab leak...more likely an accident than intentional.
I also don't know if wuhan was the origin, there is also evidence it may not have been.

This article (June 2021) has a good summary of how the lab/natural origin story was mishandled, and most people and the media bought into it. 

There remain some legitimate scientific debate about whether genetic manipulation of the virus can be completely ruled out, in part because not all genetic engineering methods leave tell-tale markers and also because the virus’ genome does have some unusual features.

While regretting using the term “smoking gun” in a recent high-profile interview, Nobel Prize-winning virologist David Baltimore remains concerned that a feature of the virus, called a “furin cleavage site,” could point to engineering.

“I believe that the question of whether the sequence was put in naturally or by molecular manipulation is very hard to determine but I wouldn’t rule out either origin,” he told the Los Angeles Times.

But lab accidents with a fully natural virus – one that might have been collected, stored or studied at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and infected a worker – are also the focus of calls for investigation. The institute’s top coronavirus researcher Shi Zhengli and representatives of the Chinese government have repeatedly said the lab never had any such virus and had nothing to do with starting the pandemic. They have expressed outrage and frustration at what they see as baseless and politically motivated questions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...

As for Fauci, while not jumping 100% on the natural origin theory, he did lean heavily one way:

(May 2020) Fauci, the director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, shot down the discussion that has been raging among politicians and pundits, calling it “a circular argument” in a conversation Monday with National Geographic.

“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that evolved in nature and then jumped species,” Fauci says. Based on the scientific evidence, he also doesn’t entertain an alternate theory—that someone found the coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab, and then it accidentally escaped.






Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 7:41am

 kurtster wrote:

Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.


Or, a qualified educated person in a position that he’s qualified for that should be listened to.

President Trump is the best example of the Peter Principle catastrophe. 

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 11:25pm



She gets 'm all frothy...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 10:26pm

 Steely_D wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
So what makes Fauci so special ?

Many things. 

THE IMPRESSIVE RESUME OF DR. ANTHONY FAUCI- 54 YEARS OF ACHIEVEMENT



 
Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 9:16pm

 kurtster wrote:
So what makes Fauci so special ?

Many things. 

THE IMPRESSIVE RESUME OF DR. ANTHONY FAUCI- 54 YEARS OF ACHIEVEMENT



From the NIH bio:

In a 2021 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 35th most-cited living researcher. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 9th out of 2.5 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2021. During the same period, he ranked 20th out of 2.4 million authors in the field of research & experimental medicine, and 132nd out of 992,000 authors in the field of general & internal medicine.

Dr. Fauci has delivered major lectures all over the world and is the recipient of numerous prestigious awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the highest honor given to a civilian by the President of the United States), the National Medal of Science, the George M. Kober Medal of the Association of American Physicians, the Mary Woodard Lasker Award for Public Service, the Albany Medical Center Prize in Medicine and Biomedical Research, the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the Prince Mahidol Award, and the Canada Gairdner Global Health Award. He also has received 51 honorary doctoral degrees from universities in the United States and abroad.



kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 8:38pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

You're playing games.  Why don't you say what you think about it.  Then I might answer your question once you commit to a position yourself. Let me help you here.  It is not apt because ...
I am going to decline your invitation to hop on board the Jackassery Express with you.
 
Cop out.
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