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R_P

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Posted: Mar 2, 2023 - 6:51pm


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 2, 2023 - 12:40am

 miamizsun wrote:





This guy is my favourite discovery over the last 12 months. I love just about everything he says.
miamizsun

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Posted: Mar 1, 2023 - 2:06pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 1, 2023 - 11:37am

Timothy Snyder on Nuclear War! (It's not happening)
miamizsun

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Posted: Feb 23, 2023 - 11:36am

one year in and some analysis...


haresfur

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Posted: Feb 14, 2023 - 1:57am


Russia planned coup in Moldova, its pro-West president says


Damn you, US war machine!

R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 5:09pm

Well kids, Uncle Ned says it's propaganda. America always follows the rules. Case closed.

R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 1:18pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
Yes, you've digressed nicely. Somewhere in all this you have a point?

You keep implying there is a moral symmetry between Russia's invasions of Ukraine and the west's response—supplying Ukraine with the means to resist those invasions. You've gone a bit beyond that, implying that supplying Ukraine with the means to resist those invasions is sinister, a direct threat to Russia justifying what can generously* called a preemptive war.

There is nothing Ukraine did or could have done to justify Russia's actions. Ukraine was not a threat to Russia. NATO was not a threat to anything but Russia's ambitions of once again dominating eastern Europe.

*Generous to Russia. Outside of Planet Putin—where all that matters are Russia's goals, and arguments like yours are just dust to fling in the air to obscure what is plainly happening—the attacks on Ukraine are an imperial war of conquest. Something the world had hoped it had seen the last of.

I see, you got nowhere and so it's time to change the subject again. I thought we were doing "But Russia = War crimes!" after suggested US malfeasance.

Ah yes, switch to morality, where you (personally) no doubt claim to hold the high ground.

By all means, repeat your imperial talking points.

Blast from the past:
NATO Vows Retaliation for Attacks on Infrastructure, Blames Sabotage for Pipe Blasts

Lazy8

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 1:08pm

 R_P wrote:
Nicely qualified/hedged. So then we can argue over what constitutes "a legitimate military target" and who defines/decides/ignores that.

Barton Gellman, a staff writer for the Washington Post, writing
soon after the 1991 conflict, observed that: “Some targets, especially
later in the war, were bombed primarily to create postwar leverage over
Iraq, not to influence the course of the conflict itself.” Gellman
quoted Colonel John A Warden, deputy director of Air Force strategy,
doctrine and plans: “One purpose of destroying Iraq’s electrical grid
was that you have imposed a long-term problem on the leadership that it
has to deal with sometime.” Gellman added: “It gives us long-term
leverage.”
To state the obvious: without an electrical grid, there are no functioning water/sewer plants, hospitals, etc., etc.

Yes, you've digressed nicely. Somewhere in all this you have a point?

You keep implying there is a moral symmetry between Russia's invasions of Ukraine and the west's response—supplying Ukraine with the means to resist those invasions. You've gone a bit beyond that, implying that supplying Ukraine with the means to resist those invasions is sinister, a direct threat to Russia justifying what can generously* called a preemptive war.

There is nothing Ukraine did or could have done to justify Russia's actions. Ukraine was not a threat to Russia. NATO was not a threat to anything but Russia's ambitions of once again dominating eastern Europe.

*Generous to Russia. Outside of Planet Putin—where all that matters are Russia's goals, and arguments like yours are just dust to fling in the air to obscure what is plainly happening—the attacks on Ukraine are an imperial war of conquest. Something the world had hoped it had seen the last of.
R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 11:44am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Absent a legitimate military target, yes.

Your turn. 

Nicely qualified/hedged. So then we can argue over what constitutes "a legitimate military target" and who defines/decides/ignores that.

Barton Gellman, a staff writer for the Washington Post, writing
soon after the 1991 conflict, observed that: “Some targets, especially
later in the war, were bombed primarily to create postwar leverage over
Iraq, not to influence the course of the conflict itself.” Gellman
quoted Colonel John A Warden, deputy director of Air Force strategy,
doctrine and plans: “One purpose of destroying Iraq’s electrical grid
was that you have imposed a long-term problem on the leadership that it
has to deal with sometime.” Gellman added: “It gives us long-term
leverage.”
To state the obvious: without an electrical grid, there are no functioning water/sewer plants, hospitals, etc., etc.
Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 11:39am

 R_P wrote:
Read it again. It's a bad thing, right? Whoever does it?

Absent a legitimate military target, yes.

Your turn. 
R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 11:12am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Um...I just condemned an attack on civilian energy infrastructure. Do you need help finding that? Does that represent your position (on Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure)?

Why is it so hard for you to state in plain language what you support?

Read it again. It's a bad thing, right? Whoever does it?

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 10:46am

 R_P wrote:
Probably the same answer you'd give if I asked you about the US' attack on power grids (regardless of whether the war itself, yadda, yadda, yadda). A bad thing, right?

Um...I just condemned an attack on civilian energy infrastructure. Do you need help finding that? Does that represent your position (on Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure)?

Why is it so hard for you to state in plain language what you support?
R_P

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Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 10:09am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Nice pivot! Bravo! Now, are Russia's attacks on Ukraine's power grid legitimate acts of war (regardless of whether the war itself is legitimate; you haven't explicitly endorsed Russia's invasion/occupation but you sure hint at that a lot) or not? If you want to get around to saying the quiet part out loud—endorsing Putin's "special military operation"—you're welcome to do that too.

Probably the same answer you'd give if I asked you about the US' attack on power grids (regardless of whether the war itself, yadda, yadda, yadda). A bad thing, right?

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 10:07am

 R_P wrote:
Should I prepare a list of issues you haven't commented on?

The "rules-based order"


From a source that's likely verboten:
For a history of US Air Force (USAF) strategy in attacking electric
generation and distribution grids, read this USAF University thesis,
entitled “Strategic Attack of National Electrical Systems”, dated 1994:
“The USAF has long favoured attacking electrical power systems.
Electric power has been considered a critical target in every war since
World War II, and will likely be nominated in the future… The evidence
shows that the only sound reason for attacking electrical power is to
affect the production of war materiel in a war of attrition against a
self-supporting nation-state without outside assistance.”

Nice pivot! Bravo!

Now, are Russia's attacks on Ukraine's power grid legitimate acts of war (regardless of whether the war itself is legitimate; you haven't explicitly endorsed Russia's invasion/occupation but you sure hint at that a lot) or not?

If you want to get around to saying the quiet part out loud—endorsing Putin's "special military operation"—you're welcome to do that too.

R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 9:45am

 Lazy8 wrote:
Because I didn't hear a peep from you about that.

Should I start preparing a list of issues you haven't commented on?

The "rules-based order" Of course this can't be confirmed by the perpetrators.

From a source that's likely verboten:
For a history of US Air Force (USAF) strategy in attacking electric
generation and distribution grids, read this USAF University thesis,
entitled “Strategic Attack of National Electrical Systems”, dated 1994:
“The USAF has long favoured attacking electrical power systems.
Electric power has been considered a critical target in every war since
World War II, and will likely be nominated in the future… The evidence
shows that the only sound reason for attacking electrical power is to
affect the production of war materiel in a war of attrition against a
self-supporting nation-state without outside assistance.”

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 9, 2023 - 9:32am

 R_P wrote:

Figuratively of course!


If Hersh's report is accurate (and he has a pretty good track record) this was a colossally stupid, counterproductive act against civilian infrastructure, unconcerned about the inevitable suffering this would cause the civilian population . They ended a hostage situation by killing the hostage.

Do I take then that you whole-heartedly condemn attacks against civilian energy infrastructure in general? These, say, which started two weeks before the Nordstream sabotage? They are part of a wider pattern of attacks which have been going on in one form or another since 2015.

Because I didn't hear a peep from you about that.

R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 7:12pm

Figuratively of course!

R_P

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 3:31pm

Norway was the perfect place to base the mission.

In the past few years of East-West crisis, the U.S. military has vastly expanded its presence inside Norway, whose western border runs 1,400 miles along the north Atlantic Ocean and merges above the Arctic Circle with Russia. The Pentagon has created high paying jobs and contracts, amid some local controversy, by investing hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade and expand American Navy and Air Force facilities in Norway. The new works included, most importantly, an advanced synthetic aperture radar far up north that was capable of penetrating deep into Russia and came online just as the American intelligence community lost access to a series of long-range listening sites inside China.

A newly refurbished American submarine base, which had been under construction for years, had become operational and more American submarines were now able to work closely with their Norwegian colleagues to monitor and spy on a major Russian nuclear redoubt 250 miles to the east, on the Kola Peninsula. America also has vastly expanded a Norwegian air base in the north and delivered to the Norwegian air force a fleet of Boeing-built P8 Poseidon patrol planes to bolster its long-range spying on all things Russia.

In return, the Norwegian government angered liberals and some moderates in its parliament last November by passing the Supplementary Defense Cooperation Agreement (SDCA). Under the new deal, the U.S. legal system would have jurisdiction in certain “agreed areas” in the North over American soldiers accused of crimes off base, as well as over those Norwegian citizens accused or suspected of interfering with the work at the base.

Norway was one of the original signatories of the NATO Treaty in 1949, in the early days of the Cold War. Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the American hand,” the source said.

Back in Washington, planners knew they had to go to Norway. “They hated the Russians, and the Norwegian navy was full of superb sailors and divers who had generations of experience in highly profitable deep-sea oil and gas exploration,” the source said. They also could be trusted to keep the mission secret. (The Norwegians may have had other interests as well. The destruction of Nord Stream—if the Americans could pull it off—would allow Norway to sell vastly more of its own natural gas to Europe.)

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Feb 8, 2023 - 1:19pm

 cc_rider wrote:
I like to imagine my edits above are over-the-top.

Your analysis is spot-on, don't get me wrong. But our house is made of glass: we have done tremendous damage to our standing in recent years.

Peace,
c.




 ha.. not entirely without merit. But the US constantly shows that its merit lies in its flux. Despite appearances to the contrary, it is a very vibrant political system. Russia, by contrast, is sclerotic in the extreme.

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