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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 7, 2020 - 7:43pm

 KarmaKarma wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
 
Only being blind to your own tremendous hypocrisy, permits you to say that, while offering a straight face.  

Obviously your personal mottto is  'Rules for thee, but not for me.'

And: SQUIRREL !

 
There ya go.  I've been beaten up for using whataboutism here for years, by R and many, many others.

I always forgot to counter it in a timely way to neutralize it.  Now I'm doing things a little differently now and it is fair game for using it.  They use it, call em out if they ask for it.  Doesn't mean that you can't use it, too.  Now it's, so what ?  Kinda like grammar police.

It's getting easier to do now because their over confidence is getting in their own way and their game is slipping as a result.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: May 7, 2020 - 7:05pm



 kcar wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
 

Hypocrisy?!? Oh dear me, no. It's not hypocrisy when someone is paying you to shill. KK's just doing his/her job.
 
Wait...you can get paid for doing this?

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 3:53pm



 R_P wrote:
 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
 

Hypocrisy?!? Oh dear me, no. It's not hypocrisy when someone is paying you to shill. KK's just doing his/her job.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 3:24pm

 KarmaKarma wrote:
 R_P wrote:
 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
 
Only being blind to your own tremendous hypocrisy, permits you to say that, while offering a straight face.  

Obviously your personal mottto is  'Rules for thee, but not for me.'

And: SQUIRREL !
 
You're projecting somewhat... Like Dear Leader usually does.

I assume that allegations of creepiness against Dear Leader don't concern you (nearly as much as they do for Biden).
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 3:21pm



 R_P wrote:
 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
 
Only being blind to your own tremendous hypocrisy, permits you to say that, while offering a straight face.  

Obviously your personal mottto is  'Rules for thee, but not for me.'

And: SQUIRREL !

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 3:16pm

 KarmaKarma wrote:
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Also:  SQUIRREL!

Nobody has to refute or disprove "Joe's creepiness". They might actually agree to some extent. However, your tremendous hypocrisy still stands as well.
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 3:06pm



 rgio wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
Creepy AF
 
Yeah...it's pretty creepy...but it's amusing to see the supporters of a guy with 25+ assaults, start a character debate.   Creepy is saying...

"She's Got The Best Body"
"Is she a Piece Of Ass?" "Yeah."
"Perhaps I'd Be Dating Her"
"Kiss her?... As Often As I Can"
"She's Always Been Very Voluptuous"

and the all timer...

"If I Weren't, Ya Know, Her Father" 


Do I need to tell you who said those things about his little girl?



Whataboutism
, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.


Also:  SQUIRREL!
 


buddy

buddy Avatar

Location: Rocky Mountains
Gender: Male


Posted: May 6, 2020 - 2:29pm



 kcar wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
Creepy AF


I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?


https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html

 

I'll see your creepy and raise you felonious.  
 

I'll see you and raise 25 Trump assaults + several 'grabbing them by the pussies'.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 2:25pm

As the (good news) monkeys are quick to point out, there are different rules for the indumbent...


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 2:14pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Creepy AF


I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?


https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html

 

I'll see your creepy and raise you felonious.  
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 6, 2020 - 2:09pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Creepy AF
 
Yeah...it's pretty creepy...but it's amusing to see the supporters of a guy with 25+ assaults, start a character debate.   Creepy is saying...

"She's Got The Best Body"
"Is she a Piece Of Ass?" "Yeah."
"Perhaps I'd Be Dating Her"
"Kiss her?... As Often As I Can"
"She's Always Been Very Voluptuous"

and the all timer...

"If I Weren't, Ya Know, Her Father" 


Do I need to tell you who said those things about his little girl?

KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: May 6, 2020 - 1:38pm

Creepy AF


I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?


https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 2, 2020 - 7:40pm



 sirdroseph wrote:
 R_P wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
(...) but I agree with what Biden says above and have never wavered from this notion regardless of the political party of the accused. You should try it, there is no confusion.

Unless there's the threat of a socialist getting the Democratic nomination, in which case you'd feel compelled to vote (expediently) for the lesser evil alleged rapist (aka Trump)...
 
This is true, it would take something that dangerous, but that is about the only thing.
{#Yes}
 Though sadly it looks like the pandemic has pushed us into socialism anyway.  How ironic that we are destroying our grandchildren's hope by having them foot the tab for shutting the economy down and it is helping the environment which was the concern of our grandchildren as well.  Seems like either way, we are screwing our descendants.
{#Cry}
 

You should be far more worried about global warming than the coronavirus or public debt. 


Paul Krugman has this to say:



Peacocks and Vultures Are Circling the Deficit

Still, hypocrisy aside, should we be worried about the effects of Covid-19 on debt? No.

It’s true that we’re headed for some eye-popping numbers. Last week the Congressional Budget Office released preliminary economic and budget projections for the next two years, which were both shocking and unsurprising.

That is, the numbers were grim but more or less in line with what many independent economists have been predicting. In particular, the budget office expects the Covid-19 crisis to drive the unemployment rate to 16 percent in a few months, which might even be on the low side.

Soaring unemployment will cause federal revenues to plunge, and also lead to a surge in spending on safety-net programs like unemployment insurance, Medicaid and food stamps. Add in the large relief packages Congress has passed, and the budget office projects a deficit that will temporarily rise to levels we haven’t seen since World War II, and it expects federal debt to rise to 108 percent from 79 percent of G.D.P., which sounds scary.

But the government will be able to borrow that money at incredibly low interest rates. In fact, real interest rates — rates on government bonds protected against inflation — are negative. So the burden of the additional debt as measured by the rise in federal interest payments will be negligible. And no, we don’t have to worry about paying off the debt; we never will, and that’s OK.

The bottom line is that right now, the only thing we have to fear from deficits is deficit fear itself. Pay no attention to the peacocks and vultures: In this time of pandemic, we can and should spend whatever it takes to limit the damage.




The link that's embedded in "we never will" in the excerpt above leads to a piece that gives good historical perspective and the big takeaway: 



Who Pays For This?

As long as nominal GDP growth is higher than the annual budget deficit, debt to GDP goes down, and spending more than you take in leaves you with a lower debt burden.

This is so simple, but it’s easily overlooked because it doesn’t apply to people.

What matters for countries isn’t the amount of debt they hold. It’s how burdensome that debt is to maintain over time.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 2, 2020 - 4:06pm

If Trump is a Pathological Liar, What Type of Liar is Biden?
I’ll get to Biden—whose lies, not his gaffes, are what the Blue Team should worry most about. But first, some of what makes Trump an exceptional and extraordinary liar, even for a US president. Trump is obviously not the first politician to have zero allegiance to the truth, but he remains extraordinary—not merely in the sheer quantity of his lies but also in other ways.

The most obvious area of Trump’s extraordinariness as a liar is his staggering number of lies. “President Trump Made 16,241 False or Misleading Claims in His First Three Years” was the headline of the Washington Post in January 2020, which reports, “He averaged six such claims a day in 2017, nearly 16 a day in 2018 and more than 22 a day in 2019.” This was before his 2020 epidemic of false and misleading claims around COVID-19.

In addition to the sheer number of lies, what makes Trump extraordinary is his striking incapacity to gage how easily and quickly his lies will be detected. For some psychiatrists, assertions that are “easily verifiable to be untrue” indicate a pathological liar, but for me, it just means that Trump is a child-like liar. Trump is no different than the five-year old with chocolate cake smeared all over his face who, when confronted by his parents for eating his brother’s last piece of birthday chocolate cake, tells his parents that he has never had chocolate cake in his life.

One of many examples of this child-like lying occurred on March 7, 2020, when Trump stated about COVID-19 testing, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is.” Even Trump supporters—who believe that all news that Trump doesn’t like is “fake news” —had themselves experienced or had heard from family and friends that Trump’s COVID-19 test availability assertion was false.

We can always count on Trump to have regard only for himself and to have no regard for the truth, but part of what makes him especially anxiety producing is that we can’t count on him to be smart enough to know what falsehood will in fact be self-serving. The Trump combination of being both an unrelentingly self-serving liar and a poor judge of what in fact is self-serving creates a unique kind of uncertainty.

What also distinguishes Trump as a liar compared to other liar US presidents is that Trump is unbothered by the consequences of being caught lying. Trump’s arrogance has been, in a perverse sense, justified. Trump is not extraordinary in the sense that he believes he is above the law—that’s par for the course for most US presidents—but he is extraordinary in his belief that there are no consequences for being caught lying. This makes Trump different than most of our well-known liar US presidents.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2020 - 1:19pm



 sirdroseph wrote:

 How ironic that we are destroying our grandchildren's hope by having them foot the tab for shutting the economy down and it is helping the environment which was the concern of our grandchildren as well.  Seems like either way, we are screwing our descendants.
 
All with a running head start...Tax cuts and a Trillion dollar deficit per year during the greatest economy the world has ever seen. 

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 2, 2020 - 1:07pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
 R_P wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
(...) but I agree with what Biden says above and have never wavered from this notion regardless of the political party of the accused. You should try it, there is no confusion.

Unless there's the threat of a socialist getting the Democratic nomination, in which case you'd feel compelled to vote (expediently) for the lesser evil alleged rapist (aka Trump)...
 
This is true, it would take something that dangerous, but that is about the only thing.
{#Yes}
 Though sadly it looks like the pandemic has pushed us into socialism anyway.  How ironic that we are destroying our grandchildren's hope by having them foot the tab for shutting the economy down and it is helping the environment which was the concern of our grandchildren as well.  Seems like either way, we are screwing our descendants.
{#Cry}
 
Just goes to show that almost everyone has a price (or a fear) that might make them put their principles on hold.

If you actually had socialism, workers would be prioritized (in any bailout scheme), not capital...
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2020 - 12:09pm

 R_P wrote:
 sirdroseph wrote:
(...) but I agree with what Biden says above and have never wavered from this notion regardless of the political party of the accused. You should try it, there is no confusion.

Unless there's the threat of a socialist getting the Democratic nomination, in which case you'd feel compelled to vote (expediently) for the lesser evil alleged rapist (aka Trump)...
 
This is true, it would take something that dangerous, but that is about the only thing.{#Yes} Though sadly it looks like the pandemic has pushed us into socialism anyway.  How ironic that we are destroying our grandchildren's hope by having them foot the tab for shutting the economy down and it is helping the environment which was the concern of our grandchildren as well.  Seems like either way, we are screwing our descendants.{#Cry}
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2020 - 10:44am

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 2, 2020 - 10:39am

 sirdroseph wrote:
(...) but I agree with what Biden says above and have never wavered from this notion regardless of the political party of the accused. You should try it, there is no confusion.

Unless there's the threat of a socialist getting the Democratic nomination, in which case you'd feel compelled to vote (expediently) for the lesser evil alleged rapist (aka Trump)...
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2020 - 10:25am

 rgio wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:

That's what I thought, that is what you did.  You did not even address anything I said.
 
Trump rule #3 - Project, gaslight, ignore, repeat until exhaustion sets in

 
I can't hear you, you should probably come closer:

 

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