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Trump - black321 - Aug 9, 2022 - 1:12pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - Proclivities - Aug 9, 2022 - 12:09pm
 
Museum Of Bad Album Covers - VV - Aug 9, 2022 - 10:34am
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 9, 2022 - 10:32am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Aug 9, 2022 - 10:15am
 
RPeeps who would have a sense of humor if they were not s... - miamizsun - Aug 9, 2022 - 10:14am
 
Wordle - daily game - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 9, 2022 - 10:03am
 
Things that make you happy - GeneP59 - Aug 9, 2022 - 8:47am
 
unusual time signatures - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 9, 2022 - 8:26am
 
Best/worst white reggae/ska/rcksteady - thisbody - Aug 9, 2022 - 6:54am
 
More reggae, less Marley please - thisbody - Aug 9, 2022 - 6:48am
 
Media Bias - Red_Dragon - Aug 9, 2022 - 6:34am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Aug 9, 2022 - 5:40am
 
Things Forgotten. - Steely_D - Aug 8, 2022 - 10:24pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - oldviolin - Aug 8, 2022 - 10:02pm
 
Things You Thought Today - oldviolin - Aug 8, 2022 - 7:28pm
 
It's the economy stupid. - miamizsun - Aug 8, 2022 - 6:41pm
 
The Obituary Page - GeneP59 - Aug 8, 2022 - 5:44pm
 
Republican Party - kcar - Aug 8, 2022 - 3:28pm
 
Cheney, Dick - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 8, 2022 - 10:36am
 
Joe Biden - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 8, 2022 - 10:18am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - GeneP59 - Aug 8, 2022 - 9:56am
 
Food - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 8, 2022 - 9:56am
 
John Lennon's Jukebox - thisbody - Aug 8, 2022 - 4:55am
 
Portishead S. O. S. - geoff_morphini - Aug 7, 2022 - 10:43pm
 
Environment - Red_Dragon - Aug 7, 2022 - 6:51pm
 
Automotive Lust - R_P - Aug 7, 2022 - 1:48pm
 
Ukraine - R_P - Aug 7, 2022 - 12:09pm
 
Ridiculous or Funny Spam - Steely_D - Aug 7, 2022 - 10:47am
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Aug 7, 2022 - 10:18am
 
What is the meaning of this? - oldviolin - Aug 7, 2022 - 10:13am
 
China - haresfur - Aug 7, 2022 - 9:00am
 
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Tech & Science - Red_Dragon - Aug 6, 2022 - 3:17pm
 
Name My Band - Manbird - Aug 6, 2022 - 2:41pm
 
Upcoming concerts or shows you can't wait to see - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 6, 2022 - 9:27am
 
The Abortion Wars - black321 - Aug 6, 2022 - 8:39am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Aug 6, 2022 - 4:34am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - BlueHeronDruid - Aug 5, 2022 - 8:37pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - ScottFromWyoming - Aug 5, 2022 - 4:44pm
 
Live Music - oldviolin - Aug 5, 2022 - 12:58pm
 
Guns - Red_Dragon - Aug 5, 2022 - 10:09am
 
Least Successful Phishing Scams - geoff_morphini - Aug 5, 2022 - 9:19am
 
Graphs, Charts & Maps - miamizsun - Aug 5, 2022 - 7:09am
 
Favorite Flags - Proclivities - Aug 5, 2022 - 6:33am
 
Afghanistan - Red_Dragon - Aug 5, 2022 - 5:29am
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Aug 4, 2022 - 7:34pm
 
What are you listening to now? - westslope - Aug 4, 2022 - 3:00pm
 
New Music - KurtfromLaQuinta - Aug 4, 2022 - 2:01pm
 
Art Show - Proclivities - Aug 4, 2022 - 11:48am
 
Breaking News - westslope - Aug 3, 2022 - 5:06pm
 
Saudi Arabia - westslope - Aug 3, 2022 - 4:45pm
 
Congress - Red_Dragon - Aug 3, 2022 - 2:19pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Aug 3, 2022 - 2:00pm
 
Message To Lucky - black321 - Aug 3, 2022 - 12:03pm
 
Is there any DOG news out there? - miamizsun - Aug 3, 2022 - 11:40am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - sirdroseph - Aug 3, 2022 - 10:39am
 
Manbird's Episiotomy Stitch Licking Clinic - KEEP OUT - geoff_morphini - Aug 3, 2022 - 9:08am
 
Infinite cat - Red_Dragon - Aug 3, 2022 - 7:36am
 
Flower Pictures - haresfur - Aug 3, 2022 - 7:13am
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Aug 2, 2022 - 1:58pm
 
Favorite Beauty Products - Tried and Tested! - Proclivities - Aug 2, 2022 - 10:58am
 
Favorite Quotes - ptooey - Aug 2, 2022 - 10:21am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - miamizsun - Aug 2, 2022 - 9:15am
 
Local Scenery - rgio - Aug 2, 2022 - 5:20am
 
Health Care - R_P - Aug 1, 2022 - 11:10am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - GeneP59 - Aug 1, 2022 - 5:14am
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jul 31, 2022 - 9:46pm
 
ATTN: Kate Bush Fans! - Steely_D - Jul 31, 2022 - 8:34pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - Proclivities - Jul 31, 2022 - 4:26am
 
You might be getting old if...... - Manbird - Jul 30, 2022 - 6:26pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - Steely_D - Jul 30, 2022 - 10:07am
 
Mr Peabody's Coal Train Broke - oldviolin - Jul 29, 2022 - 6:21pm
 
What Did You Do Today? - Antigone - Jul 29, 2022 - 5:01pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - Isabeau - Jul 29, 2022 - 4:43pm
 
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black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 1:12pm

 Steely_D wrote:


I wanted to see what Rachel Maddow had to say about it and, sadly, it was the same old stuff that led me to stop watching her: she led with the four or five things that he could have done wrong (which one could it be? Suspense!)  and that grand juries have been convened for, and then finally said it was the last one (she knew before she began her litany so what was the point of the list?) and then began to discuss it with the journalist who had brought the story to the forefront back in February. 

But, by leading with the four or five things she charged the story with how bad Trump is, which is what her audience wants to hear. I think Rachel is extremely smart and very well spoken, but she’s an entertainer after all and has to fill the time and draw eyeballs.


going back to another poster a few days ago re. the "over blown" media coverage on all things trump, it's this type of entertainment news that dilutes the effectiveness of the arguments against chubby, and gives the entertainment news from the other end an angle to counter. 

We don't need all the hyperbole to attack all that is wrong with Trump.

Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 12:16pm

 kcar wrote:
Martyr? Trump brought all this on himself. 

Yep. It's like the "it's all politics!" defense. Of course it's politics. Of course it's brought up by his opponents - would his allies bring it up?
Of course they're "after" him. Anyone who respects the USA should be:

He flaunted his ignorance of his position, impugned anyone who disagreed with his perspective, no matter how inaccurate.
Hired his children to the White House.
Shook hands with bad guys; alienated our allies.
Encouraged violence against dissenters and refused to repudiate violent American gangs.
Stole confidential/classified documents and took them to his private residence. Not treasonous, but certainly reprehensible.
And repeatedly - repeatedly - spreads distrust of the American Government by asserting that it's inherently dishonest. (Yes, there's always been some of that, but he takes it to the level of "do what I say because everyone else is untrustworthy, and send me money.")

So, a "martyr"? Hardly. Those folks are innocent victims to a great cause. He's not innocent, and the overthrow of the government is not - last I checked - a great cause.

And now the people that want to take him to task, all of them, are missing the point, right?: he's a great leader, a visionary, and the laws don't apply and BTW we should send him money.



black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 11:41am

 kcar wrote:


as far as i can tell, with the jan 6th stuff there just isn't enough meat to make the indictable ham sandwich


Beg to differ. The toughest charge to bring and drive home would be seditious conspiracy. I think the House Committee alone has shown enough to prove that Trump knowingly planned the crowd to storm the Capitol building on Jan. 6 and disrupt the formal Electoral count.

The evidence for other potential charges is overwhelming. I'm no lawyer but that it strikes me that the phone call with Raffensperger on its own is enough to put Trump in jail. 

Let's remember that most of the people publicly testifying before the Committee are Republicans. Let's also remember that the current head of the FBI is a Trump appointee. And also that there's a high bar of evidence to clear before a judge will approve a federal search warrant.

Martyr? Trump brought all this on himself. 

Unfortunately this doesn't matter. 
It's all politics, not Dateline NBC

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 11:33am

miamizsun wrote:

as far as i can tell, with the jan 6th stuff there just isn't enough meat to make the indictable ham sandwich


Beg to differ. The toughest charge to bring and drive home would be seditious conspiracy. I think the House Committee alone has shown enough to prove that Trump knowingly planned the crowd to storm the Capitol building on Jan. 6 and disrupt the formal Electoral count.

The evidence for other potential charges is overwhelming. I'm no lawyer but that it strikes me that the phone call with Raffensperger on its own is enough to put Trump in jail. 

Let's remember that most of the people publicly testifying before the Committee are Republicans. Let's also remember that the current head of the FBI is a Trump appointee. And also that there's a high bar of evidence to clear before a judge will approve a federal search warrant.

Martyr? Trump brought all this on himself. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 10:09am

grifter gonna grift
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 10:08am

 Steely_D wrote:


I wanted to see what Rachel Maddow had to say about it and, sadly, it was the same old stuff that led me to stop watching her: she led with the four or five things that he could have done wrong (which one could it be? Suspense!)  and that grand juries have been convened for, and then finally said it was the last one (she knew before she began her litany so what was the point of the list?) and then began to discuss it with the journalist who had brought the story to the forefront back in February. 

But, by leading with the four or five things she charged the story with how bad Trump is, which is what her audience wants to hear. I think Rachel is extremely smart and very well spoken, but she’s an entertainer after all and has to fill the time and draw eyeballs.



i tend to agree, everyone is concerned with ratings/advertising dollars, so they probably slant/bias toward that direction
regarding trump, i just don't have the time too glean the mass media, so i just do not know enough to say with any authority
which leads me to rely on a few well versed scholars and try to draw from that "venn diagram" 
(haven't looked at their stuff in a couple of weeks)
as far as i can tell, with the jan 6th stuff there just isn't enough meat to make the indictable ham sandwich
they seem to indicate that the georgia vote issue is legally the best shot at getting something to stick
sam harris had a guy, on his podcast, david french, and apparently this guy has legit conservative cred and a principled approach to critiquing all things trump
people should listen to it if time allows
i also think kurt is correct that the constant croasting of trump may have some martyr effect
regards

 
edit: and why didn't anyone laugh at my make-up crack below? jeez!

Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 8:29am

 islander wrote:
most Americans were left wondering which crime they were going after him for. 


I wanted to see what Rachel Maddow had to say about it and, sadly, it was the same old stuff that led me to stop watching her: she led with the four or five things that he could have done wrong (which one could it be? Suspense!)  and that grand juries have been convened for, and then finally said it was the last one (she knew before she began her litany so what was the point of the list?) and then began to discuss it with the journalist who had brought the story to the forefront back in February. 

But, by leading with the four or five things she charged the story with how bad Trump is, which is what her audience wants to hear. I think Rachel is extremely smart and very well spoken, but she’s an entertainer after all and has to fill the time and draw eyeballs.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 8:15am

 VV wrote:
 islander wrote:
Of course in this case the guy leading the 'deep state' was appointed by the donald himself.  More astonishing to me is that the FBI raided the home of the former president. And for most of the day, until further reporting came out, most Americans were left wondering which crime they were going after him for. 

So... apparently the FBI still believes he is holding onto classified documents that he didn't ultimately provide with the last batch that he did turn over that may incriminate him (probably with respect to Jan 6th). There is still culpability on his part if he is holding onto classified documents that he was requested to turn over... regardless of what those documents contain. To do so would be to arrogantly disregard the law. So for those shouting "unfair" or "witch-hunt" the current situation would not exist if Trump had simply done what he was supposed to do. Or better said... not done what he did. The thing that interests me is whether the extent of his lawlessness & arrogance is such that he was still sitting on incriminating documents that he had an opportunity to destroy or even tear up and "flush" ;) We will see but my initial opinion leans to the answer being "Yes". 
 
VV

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 7:54am

 islander wrote:


Of course in this case the guy leading the 'deep state' was appointed by the donald himself. 

More astonishing to me is that the FBI raided the home of the former president. And for most of the day, until further reporting came out, most Americans were left wondering which crime they were going after him for. 

So... apparently the FBI still believes he is holding onto classified documents that he didn't ultimately provide with the last batch that he did turn over that may incriminate him (probably with respect to Jan 6th). There is still culpability on his part if he is holding onto classified documents that he was requested to turn over... regardless of what those documents contain. To do so would be to arrogantly disregard the law. So for those shouting "unfair" or "witch-hunt" the current situation would not exist if Trump had simply done what he was supposed to do. Or better said... not done what he did.

The thing that interests me is whether the extent of his lawlessness & arrogance is such that he was still sitting on incriminating documents that he had an opportunity to destroy or even tear up and "flush" ;) We will see but my initial opinion leans to the answer being "Yes". 

islander

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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 6:26am

 VV wrote:

Please, he was a martyr in your eyes the minute he took office to do battle against the “Deep State”.




Of course in this case the guy leading the 'deep state' was appointed by the donald himself. 

More astonishing to me is that the FBI raided the home of the former president. And for most of the day, until further reporting came out, most Americans were left wondering which crime they were going after him for. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 4:54am

 kurtster wrote:

You rang ?

Since everyone here thinks that politics has absolutely nothing at all to do with this raid I'll offer this up to you all instead.

Others do think that politics is the largest part of why this raid was conducted.  They are taking this personally.

If there is no timely forthcoming revelation about what was seized in the raid and the material's relevance to a crime then there will be hell to pay.

Keep this stuff up.  You all are creating a martyr.



 Donald Trump is Jesus Christ
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 4:18am

 kurtster wrote:

 You all are creating a martyr.


VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 9, 2022 - 4:03am

 kurtster wrote:

You rang ?

Since everyone here thinks that politics has absolutely nothing at all to do with this raid I'll offer this up to you all instead.

Others do think that politics is the largest part of why this raid was conducted.  They are taking this personally.

If there is no timely forthcoming revelation about what was seized in the raid and the material's relevance to a crime then there will be hell to pay.

Keep this stuff up.  You all are creating a martyr.

Please, he was a martyr in your eyes the minute he took office to do battle against the “Deep State”.


NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 11:38pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Keep this stuff up.  You all are creating a martyr.

So. Much. Whining.
 
From that piece:

By measuring perceived victimhood, the authors show that it's "largely unrelated to political predispositions or sociodemographic characteristics," but is related to various views of government, society and the world (especially with regard to perceived corruption and conspiratorial thinking) and personality traits such as narcissism and a sense of entitlement. 
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 11:25pm

 kurtster wrote:
Keep this stuff up.  You all are creating a martyr.

So. Much. Whining.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 10:33pm

 Steely_D wrote:
 Yep. He's a politician, former President, and took classified documents to his private residence. This whole thing, by definition, is political.
And, if the documents seized are what they are supposed to be let's see if this feels familiar: LOCK HIM UP
 
If you had read my entire thought, you would realize that how or what you think about all of this is irrelevant to my point.

I will take the liberty based upon you remark above that you do approve of the politization of the FBI to carry out actions based upon politics rather than or just limited to actual criminal activity.
Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 10:21pm

 kurtster wrote:

Others do think that politics is the largest part of why this raid was conducted.  


Yep. He's a politician, former President, and took classified documents to his private residence. This whole thing, by definition, is political.
And, if the documents seized are what they are supposed to be let's see if this feels familiar: LOCK HIM UP
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 9:33pm

 rgio wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote:
hallefuckinglujah

Looking forward to the Kurt whataboutisms and suggestions that Joe is just trying to eliminate the guy who's gonna win in 2024.   Never mind that he's likely committed multiple crimes.  
 
You rang ?

Since everyone here thinks that politics has absolutely nothing at all to do with this raid I'll offer this up to you all instead.

Others do think that politics is the largest part of why this raid was conducted.  They are taking this personally.

If there is no timely forthcoming revelation about what was seized in the raid and the material's relevance to a crime then there will be hell to pay.

Keep this stuff up.  You all are creating a martyr.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 9:24pm

this sounds kind of reminiscent of Al Capone getting done for tax evasion.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2022 - 7:07pm

 Bill_J wrote:
 "Witch hunt".
 
??? i heard they found a three keys of spf 40 tangerine bozo pancake and a couple of wagner power sprayers...
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